In-wall rear surround recommendations

[snakeeyes]

Yes dual subs if setup correctly will smooth the bass in the room and get rid of the localization issue. However, sub placement is hit or miss without measuring with a mic such as with REW software. You typically will end up with at least one sub at the front of the room. The other might be in the side or back of the room or also in the front of the room. It’s hard to predict.

The size of sub is the other factor. Two tiny subs might not be enough to really work in a particular room. What sub model is it? How big is the room?

 

[Pogre]

Yes dual subs if setup correctly will smooth the bass in the room and get rid of the localization issue. However, sub placement is hit or miss without measuring with a mic such as with REW software. You typically will end up with at least one sub at the front of the room. The other might be in the side or back of the room or also in the front of the room. It’s hard to predict.

The size of sub is the other factor. Two tiny subs might not be enough to really work in a particular room. What sub model is it? How big is the room?

A single SB1000 in a medium to large size room.

 

[snakeeyes]

A single SB1000 in a medium to large size room.

Ya that wouldn’t be enough bass for me. Think SVS has a trade up program maybe.

 

[mossman77]

Ya that wouldn’t be enough bass for me. Think SVS has a trade up program maybe.

Trade up to a larger and/or more powerful sub? How would that help with localization? Seems like that would make the bass even more localized. Wouldn't getting a second SB1000 be the better option so I could space them out in the room and get twice the SPL spread between two subs instead of just one?

I would likely keep one sub where it is (front/left of room) and the second one would be on the right side about 5ft closer to the LP. Nowhere else to really put it.

 

[snakeeyes]

Trade up to a larger and/or more powerful sub? How would that help with localization? Seems like that would make the bass even more localized. Wouldn't getting a second SB1000 be the better option so I could space them out in the room and get twice the SPL spread between two subs instead of just one?

I would likely keep one sub where it is (front/left of room) and the second one would be on the right side about 5ft closer to the LP. Nowhere else to really put it.

Meant both trade up and buy an additional sub Like a pair of PB1000 SVS.

 

[mossman77]

Meant both trade up and buy an additional sub Like a pair of PB1000 SVS.

That's the ported 10" correct? That may be too much bass. Floor space is very limited, which is one of the main reasons I went with the SB1000.

 

[snakeeyes]

That's the ported 10" correct? That may be too much bass. Floor space is very limited, which is one of the main reasons I went with the SB1000.

Ya I was thinking you would go a little bigger in that space. The cylinder PC2000 even.

Well everyone is different. I looked at ported 15in subs but ended up with ported 12in subs and I’m just fine.

 

[ryanosaur]

A small sub, 10” -12” driver, in a sealed enclosure cannot function well in a room that size. Any benefit of a sealed box is lost by the time you hit a room volume of about 3000’3. They simply do not have physics on their side.
Your best bet would be going ported with larger drivers. 2 PB2000 or PC2000 in your room would provide much more adequate output in a way that will maintain the clean, linear performance SVS subs are known for.
Truthfully, your room would benefit much more from bigger subs still. I recognize your desire for low impact in your space and am trying to recommend accordingly.
If cost is the concern, I would try the SVS upgrade program to 1 PB or PC2000 now, then plan on adding the second later.

This isn’t about more bass, rather better response. You are asking and expecting that little SB to deliver well outside of its design. Chances are in turning the trim and gain up, you are likely driving it into some manner of distortion which is why you are likely experiencing the localization effect.
Larger subs designed for larger rooms will provide that response without having to boost them into potential distortion. Bass without distortion is subtle rather than loud.

 

[Pogre]

Ya I was thinking you would go a little bigger in that space. The cylinder PC2000 even.

Well everyone is different. I looked at ported 15in subs but ended up with ported 12in subs and I’m just fine.

Why didn't I think of the PC2000?! That's an awesome sub that doesn't have a huge footprint. Hell the cylinder look is actually quite attractive, imo.

Legit subs with a small footprint. This would be the way to go for you in my opinion. Trade up your SB1000, take your amp money and get a couple of those!

 

[ryanosaur]

The cylinder PC2000 even.

Why didn't I think of the PC2000?! That's an awesome sub that doesn't have a huge footprint.

Hmmm... great minds think alike!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I’ll third that! I have two of their bigger brothers and they’re great. Love the form factor, really sets them apart.

Also, to what Ryan was saying @mossman77, when you’re turning up your sub to get better bass you are definitely encountering distortion. Bigger subs with more headroom just don’t have to work as hard and the entire system benefits because of it. I hate car analogies(being a car guy lol) equates to speakers, but imagine a v8 Cadillac loafing along on the freeway at 80mph. The tach is comfy at about 1800rpm. Drop the hammer and it wakes up a little bit and it’s gone. Now, imagine a little Prius going along at 80. It’s already working hard to maintain that speed. Now, you want to go faster and hit the gas, all you can hear is that poor little thing just screaming away to accelerate, stressing itself out in the process. Maybe that’s what it’s like...

Anyway once again. Have to say I like the room and love that tank. I can’t see any fish though. Do you have any? We have a 75gal glass tank. I brought some driftwood back from table rock lake In Missouri, and since Lake Superior is close, I have some from there too.

 

[mossman77]

A small sub, 10” -12” driver, in a sealed enclosure cannot function well in a room that size. Any benefit of a sealed box is lost by the time you hit a room volume of about 3000’3. They simply do not have physics on their side.
Your best bet would be going ported with larger drivers. 2 PB2000 or PC2000 in your room would provide much more adequate output in a way that will maintain the clean, linear performance SVS subs are known for.
Truthfully, your room would benefit much more from bigger subs still. I recognize your desire for low impact in your space and am trying to recommend accordingly.
If cost is the concern, I would try the SVS upgrade program to 1 PB or PC2000 now, then plan on adding the second later.

This isn’t about more bass, rather better response. You are asking and expecting that little SB to deliver well outside of its design. Chances are in turning the trim and gain up, you are likely driving it into some manner of distortion which is why you are likely experiencing the localization effect.
Larger subs designed for larger rooms will provide that response without having to boost them into potential distortion. Bass without distortion is subtle rather than loud.

The SB1000 seems to be performing well and the gain is set to the middle of what it is capable. I'll have to think about it. One PB1000 as opposed to two SB1000 sounds appealing due to space restrictions, but two SB1000's sounds appealing because of the localization issue. However, I hadn't considered it to be a response thing. I have an old Klipsch sub-10 in a ported enclosure. I could hook that up temporarily and see if it sounds better.

Do you think one PB1000 at a higher gain would achieve the goal (increased SPL without localization) rather than two SB1000 each at a lower gain? I see the PB1000 uses the same amp and processing. And with the front firing port, wouldn't port noise be a concern? I prefer tight accurate bass over boomy bass, which is one reason I opted for the SB1000 (aside from the smaller footprint).

 

[mossman77]

I’ll third that! I have two of their bigger brothers and they’re great. Love the form factor, really sets them apart.

Also, to what Ryan was saying @mossman77, when you’re turning up your sub to get better bass you are definitely encountering distortion. Bigger subs with more headroom just don’t have to work as hard and the entire system benefits because of it. I hate car analogies(being a car guy lol) equates to speakers, but imagine a v8 Cadillac loafing along on the freeway at 80mph. The tach is comfy at about 1800rpm. Drop the hammer and it wakes up a little bit and it’s gone. Now, imagine a little Prius going along at 80. It’s already working hard to maintain that speed. Now, you want to go faster and hit the gas, all you can hear is that poor little thing just screaming away to accelerate, stressing itself out in the process. Maybe that’s what it’s like...

Anyway once again. Have to say I like the room and love that tank. I can’t see any fish though. Do you have any? We have a 75gal glass tank. I brought some driftwood back from table rock lake In Missouri, and since Lake Superior is close, I have some from there too.

Yes there are fish. Two angels, 6 geophagus redhead tapajos, two siamese algae eaters, 6 corydora adolfi, and a few nerite snails. I'm raising two angel fry (only two made it) in another tank and they will join once they aren't viewed as snacks.

 

[mossman77]

Why didn't I think of the PC2000?! That's an awesome sub that doesn't have a huge footprint. Hell the cylinder look is actually quite attractive, imo.

View attachment 34544View attachment 34545

Legit subs with a small footprint. This would be the way to go for you in my opinion. Trade up your SB1000, take your amp money and get a couple of those!

I saw those and thought for a minute that perhaps I could fit one behind my fish tank, but I don't think it would fit. Plus the fish probably wouldn't appreciate it. Haha.

 

[ryanosaur]

The SB1000 seems to be performing well and the gain is set to the middle of what it is capable. I'll have to think about it. One PB1000 as opposed to two SB1000 sounds appealing due to space restrictions, but two SB1000's sounds appealing because of the localization issue. However, I hadn't considered it to be a response thing. I have an old Klipsch sub-10 in a ported enclosure. I could hook that up temporarily and see if it sounds better.

Try it. Different sets of problems though, getting two different subs to perform well together. Especially when one is ported and the other sealed.
Please know we aren't trying to spend your money frivolously. It would be unconscionable to leave the subwoofer situation as is.

Do you know, or can you figure, roughly, your open-room volume?

Bassaholic Subwoofer Room Size Rating Protocol

This article outlines our test procedure in determining a subwoofers room size recommendation based on its max CEA SPL output while making room size and subwoofer distance assumptions.

www.audioholics.com

How to Buy a Subwoofer

Let us show you how to make an educated purchasing decision when buying a subwoofer for your home theater system, taking into account size and aesthetics as well as performance. How to shop subs? Here

www.audioholics.com

 

[mossman77]

Response curves for the PB1000 and SB1000 are pretty similar, with the PB1000 reaching lower due to the porting.

 

[mossman77]

Try it. Different sets of problems though, getting two different subs to perform well together. Especially when one is ported and the other sealed.
Please know we aren't trying to spend your money frivolously. It would be unconscionable to leave the subwoofer situation as is.

Do you know, or can you figure, roughly, your open-room volume?

Bassaholic Subwoofer Room Size Rating Protocol

This article outlines our test procedure in determining a subwoofers room size recommendation based on its max CEA SPL output while making room size and subwoofer distance assumptions.

www.audioholics.com

How to Buy a Subwoofer

Let us show you how to make an educated purchasing decision when buying a subwoofer for your home theater system, taking into account size and aesthetics as well as performance. How to shop subs? Here

www.audioholics.com

I didn't mean use both together (I realize that wouldn't sound good). I meant temporarily swap out the SB1000 with the Sub-10 to see the difference between a sealed 12" sub and a ported 10" sub.

 

[mossman77]

Try it. Different sets of problems though, getting two different subs to perform well together. Especially when one is ported and the other sealed.
Please know we aren't trying to spend your money frivolously. It would be unconscionable to leave the subwoofer situation as is.

Do you know, or can you figure, roughly, your open-room volume?

Bassaholic Subwoofer Room Size Rating Protocol

This article outlines our test procedure in determining a subwoofers room size recommendation based on its max CEA SPL output while making room size and subwoofer distance assumptions.

www.audioholics.com

How to Buy a Subwoofer

Let us show you how to make an educated purchasing decision when buying a subwoofer for your home theater system, taking into account size and aesthetics as well as performance. How to shop subs? Here

www.audioholics.com

Hard to say. It's an open living room with vaulted ceiling with balcony and bedrooms, so it's basically the entire 1st and 2nd floor.

 

[snakeeyes]

I probably shouldn’t have mentioned the PB1000 but I do expect it would have more output than the SB1000. (I’m sure if nobody chimes in, you can simply call SVS to ask). Ported boxes are larger than sealed boxes of course. That’s why I mentioned the PC2000 since you mentioned floor space is a concern. . There’s certainly are also sealed 15in subs such as HSU ULS15.

 

[Pogre]

I probably shouldn’t have mentioned the PB1000 but I do expect it would have more output than the SB1000. (I’m sure if nobody chimes in, you can simply call SVS to ask). Ported boxes are larger than sealed boxes of course. That’s why I mentioned the PC2000 since you mentioned floor space is a concern. . There’s certainly are also sealed 15in subs such as HSU ULS15.

Yeah, in a space that big the small boost in performance from the PB1000 is pretty negligible. At least the PC2000. Or something with similar performance. I like PC for him due to the size constraints though. It's a great sub for that. I'll eat my hat if that single SB1000 is properly pressurising that room.

This is a classic case of not knowing what you're missing. I was in the same boat at one time myself with a pair of SB1000s. Utterly convinced that my bass needs were more than taken care of. Boy did I get my eyes opened, lol.