In-wall rear surround recommendations

[mossman77]

I wouldn't do surrounds if I couldn't place them at least somewhat close to what's recommended. The whole point of surround speakers are to surround you in a circle of sound. That's what they're meant for. Deviate too far from correct positioning not only defeats the purpose, it'll scramble things up.

I'm a huge fan of SVS and may yet get some prime elevation speakers myself, but for atmos. I've had many interactions with them and their customer service is outstanding. They have a live chat on their website during business hours and are more than happy to help. I suggest you contact them, explain your situation and ask them if they think Prime Elevations might be positioned some way that'd work for you.

Also, realize that the Prime Elevation speakers are wall mounted, not in wall. So if you're willing to do those...

I'll contact them to see what they say. I would tuck them up in the corner between the ceiling and wall if I went that route. I guess I'm confused then as to why most diagrams I look at have the surrounds pretty much directly to the left/right of the MLP. The SBL and SBR are behind the MLP. That's why I figured my proposed positioning would be fine. Again, I have no experience in dealing with surround.

Maybe go with in-ceiling surrounds and place them closer to the wall so at least they are at or slightly behind ear position? Except then I'd get reflections off the wall.

 

[mossman77]

What about putting a pair of these in the wall behind the sofa?

Monoprice Alpha Ceiling Speaker Dual 5.25in Carbon Fiber Surround 2-way Vari-Angled (single) - Monoprice.com

This carbon fiber in-wall speaker is the perfect combination of performance and style. The use of carbon fiber for the woofer means that the speaker can hit harder, go lower, and handle more power wit

www.monoprice.com

You know. These Monoprice speakers gave me a good idea. I could get a normal in-wall speaker and custom mount them so they sit at an angle inside the wall. Then attach the grill flat to the sheetrock and you'd never know the difference. Doing this in combination with a tweeter that swivels should allow me to aim them pretty close to the listening position. Not sure I'd be able to get much angle depending on the speaker depth though.

 

[Pogre]

I'll contact them to see what they say. I would tuck them up in the corner between the ceiling and wall if I went that route. I guess I'm confused then as to why most diagrams I look at have the surrounds pretty much directly to the left/right of the MLP. The SBL and SBR are behind the MLP. That's why I figured my proposed positioning would be fine. Again, I have no experience in dealing with surround.

5.1 is coded with 3 up front and 2 on the side.

The SB speakers come into play with 7.1 to complete the circle.

Add to that, ideally all of the tweeters should be at ear level. That's not always doable and most of us have do to compromise a little. For instance in my living room 5.1 setup my surround speakers are to the sides but just a tiny bit behind me. I had to mount them over 6' off the ground too, but I have them on swivel mounts and angled down and forward so they point at the seating position. Not perfectly ideal, but good enough.

You might just have too many constraints to do a proper 5.1 surround setup. I'm not saying give up. Do like I said and contact SVS they'll be happy to sell you some Primes and might even have some suggestions for you. Check some other forums too. Our guys know a lot of stuff here, but most of us are geared more for performance and don't tend to compromise very much when it comes to hi quality sound.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

5.1 is coded with 3 up front and 2 on the side.
View attachment 34447

The SB speakers come into play with 7.1 to complete the circle.
View attachment 34448

Add to that, ideally all of the tweeters should be at ear level. That's not always doable and most of us have do to compromise a little. For instance in my living room 5.1 setup my surround speakers are to the sides but just a tiny bit behind me. I had to mount them over 6' off the ground too, but I have them on swivel mounts and angled down and forward so they point at the seating position. Not perfectly ideal, but good enough.

You might just have too many constraints to do a proper 5.1 surround setup. I'm not saying give up. Do like I said and contact SVS they'll be happy to sell you some Primes and might even have some suggestions for you. Check some other forums too. Our guys know a lot of stuff here, but most of us are geared more for performance and don't tend to compromise very much when it comes to hi quality sound.

Actually poges, in a traditional 5.1 setting such as yours, the higher surrounds are better. Ear level is more for Atmos where you need the separation between the bed layer and height layer. Before Atmos, my surrounds and surround backs tweeters used to be around 6’ as well. angled at, and just above the LP. It was a good balance of height and direct sound. In fact they stereo imaged som sounds well behind me.

For the OP, I still vote for the back wall, and definitely far apart. Even if the LP is of axis, Ime surrounds in the ceiling just aren’t that great. Of course, everyone’s mileage will vary.

 

[mossman77]

Actually poges, in a traditional 5.1 setting such as yours, the higher surrounds are better. Ear level is more for Atmos where you need the separation between the bed layer and height layer. Before Atmos, my surrounds and surround backs tweeters used to be around 6’ as well. angled at, and just above the LP. It was a good balance of height and direct sound. In fact they stereo imaged som sounds well behind me.

For the OP, I still vote for the back wall, and definitely far apart. Even if the LP is of axis, Ime surrounds in the ceiling just aren’t that great. Of course, everyone’s mileage will vary.

Okay. It looks like 8ft apart is the most I can do. How important is it that they are facing the LP? I'm not sure how that is going to be possible with in-wall. And I really don't want on-wall speakers hanging off the wall. If I absolutely had to do on-wall surrounds on the back wall, I would have them down low at ear level just on either side of the sofa so they don't stand out too much, which doesn't sound like it would be ideal based on what you're saying.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Okay. It looks like 8ft apart is the most I can do. How important is it that they are facing the LP? I'm not sure how that is going to be possible with in-wall. And I really don't want on-wall speakers hanging off the wall. If I absolutely had to do on-wall surrounds on the back wall, I would have them down low at ear level just on either side of the sofa so they don't stand out too much, which doesn't sound like it would be ideal based on what you're saying.

Well down low won’t be where I’d put them, it will be better than not having them by a long shot. IW on the back wall will also be better than not having them too. Going IC will have the advantage of being more on axis for better imaging and treble, but for me sounds that are meant to come from the sides or rear seem wrong coming from above and distracts me. Like I said though, lots of people do it that way so..... IIRC the room is only 12’ deep, but moving the couch off the back wall will help get the LP a little more in front of the surrounds. It usually helps with smoother bass response too.
So for me, I would go, first ON the back wall with a pair of bookshelf speakers(they can be small even), second IN the back wall, and lastly in the ceiling.

 

[mossman77]

Well down low won’t be where I’d put them, it will be better than not having them by a long shot. IW on the back wall will also be better than not having them too. Going IC will have the advantage of being more on axis for better imaging and treble, but for me sounds that are meant to come from the sides or rear seem wrong coming from above and distracts me. Like I said though, lots of people do it that way so..... IIRC the room is only 12’ deep, but moving the couch off the back wall will help get the LP a little more in front of the surrounds. It usually helps with smoother bass response too.
So for me, I would go, first ON the back wall with a pair of bookshelf speakers(they can be small even), second IN the back wall, and lastly in the ceiling.

What if I did in-ceiling spaced well left/right of the LP such that you wouldn't perceive the sound coming from above, but rather from the side (because it would be so far away and the sound would reflect off the left/right walls and/or floor). Or even get angled IC speakers and aim them off the left/right walls so the sound reflects off the side walls to give the effect of the speaker being lower, then let the receiver compensate with room correction. Is this an absurd idea?

 

[Pogre]

@DigitalDawn might have some options for you. I think she specializes in in-ceiling/wall speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What if I did in-ceiling spaced well left/right of the LP such that you wouldn't perceive the sound coming from above, but rather from the side (because it would be so far away and the sound would reflect off the left/right walls and/or floor). Or even get angled IC speakers and aim them off the left/right walls so the sound reflects off the side walls to give the effect of the speaker being lower, then let the receiver compensate with room correction. Is this an absurd idea?

IMO, the nexus is just getting 2 overhead speakers above you somewhere so you can easily hear them. When Rain, Thunder, Aircrafts, Missiles, Bullets, and Monsters on the 2nd floor or roof are present, it will sound like they are ABOVE you.

So the best sound will be Ceiling speakers directly above you pointing down. The 2nd best will be wall-speakers installed high up close to the ceiling and pointing down at you.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As far as which brand of surround/ceiling speakers to get - I would get the same brand as your front speakers just because I prefer to match my speakers.

If you absolutely love DefTech and want to keep using DefTech, then the DefTech in-wall/in-ceiling/surrounds should be fine.

Good thing I've noticed about DefTech is that their margins are very large (dealer cost vs retail price), so you might get a good discount.

 

[mossman77]

When I envisioned on-wall speakers, I thought of the cubed shaped speakers hanging off a bracket with visible wires coming out the back. After hearing everyone's comments, it is becoming clear that in-wall or in-ceiling isn't going to be worth it. That being said, I think I could live with an on-wall speaker, as long as it had more of a flush appearance to it and didn't stand out too much from the wall. I like the look of the Deftech SR-series. The SR9040 is only 9.5" x 7.75" and just under 5.5" deep. I could live with that. SR9080 (dual 4.5") is considerably larger and likely wouldn't work for me. Just wish these were available in white.

SR9040: https://www.definitivetechnology.com/products/sr9040
SR9080: https://www.definitivetechnology.com/products/sr9080

 

[NINaudio]

For current movies I wouldn't recommend bipolar surrounds. They were great in the late 90's for DVD"s that were encoded for diffuse rear sound fields, but the current trend is for directional sounds in the surround channels. If you absolutely want to stick with deftech, I'd suggest the pro-monitors and a wall/ceiling mount such as these, which I use for my surrounds. It's great because you can mount them and then fine tune the angles to your liking. My surrounds are ceiling mounted and aimed towards the main listening position.

 

[NINaudio]

Bonus for you is that the pro-monitors come in white!

 

[mossman77]

Bonus for you is that the pro-monitors come in white!

I'll take a look, but if I'm going with on-wall as opposed to in-wall or in-ceiling, I really don't want a speaker that requires a bracket and protrudes from the wall. The main reason being that they would stand out too much and be one of the first things your eye is drawn to when you enter my house. The door and foyer are directly to the right of the sofa. Hence the reason I am trying to find a speaker that is either flush to the wall (with drivers angled) or in-wall (also with angled drivers).

 

[Pogre]

I own a pair of Promonitor 1000s and used them as my surrounds for a long time. They're very nice little speakers. I really like them. Enough that I have them in service as a secondary 2 channel system with a little 10 inch sub right now. They don't dig very deep, but they sound great and you get to stay in the family.

 

[NINaudio]

Flush to the wall your best bet is probably going to be the prime elevations.

 

[mossman77]

For current movies I wouldn't recommend bipolar surrounds. They were great in the late 90's for DVD"s that were encoded for diffuse rear sound fields, but the current trend is for directional sounds in the surround channels. If you absolutely want to stick with deftech, I'd suggest the pro-monitors and a wall/ceiling mount such as these, which I use for my surrounds. It's great because you can mount them and then fine tune the angles to your liking. My surrounds are ceiling mounted and aimed towards the main listening position.

If I'm playing 5.1 content and the inward and outward facing drivers share an input connection, the surround content would be directed both toward (direct) AND away (diffused) from the LP wouldn't it?

 

[mossman77]

Flush to the wall your best bet is probably going to be the prime elevations.

When I say flush, what I mean is trapezoidal shaped, preferably with a 2:1 height vs. width aspect ratio and no more than 6" to 7" depth. IOW, just like the DefTech SR9080, but I have to say I'm a little reluctant to add even more 4.5" drivers to my system. Guess the smaller drivers wouldn't be a big deal since I'd be running my LFE at 120Hz anyway?

 

[mossman77]

I own a pair of Promonitor 1000s and used them as my surrounds for a long time. They're very nice little speakers. I really like them. Enough that I have them in service as a secondary 2 channel system with a little 10 inch sub right now. They don't dig very deep, but they sound great and you get to stay in the family.

I saw those. How would they sound below ear level? Reason I ask is because one other potential option I just thought of is I could place the surrounds on the end tables on either side of the sofa. Except they would be too low then wouldn't they? I don't want them to be too localized.

I just checked the dimensions on the Pro 1000. They would be too large for my end tables (12.25" x 8.5" x 8.5"). The Pro 800 would be fine though. Except the 4.5" driver. Am I worrying too much about the driver size?

Isn't there a manufacturer that sells separates (tweeters, woofers, crossovers) so the customer can do a custom install? If I could make my own enclosure and do an in-wall installation with the drivers facing inward, that would be ideal.

 

[NINaudio]

maybe these?