Pre + Pro + Sub..?

[William Lemmerhirt]

I apologize.

As I said from the start, I'm simply trying to learn. It seems I've either worn out my welcome here or am possibly too slow.

There have been several folks who I feel tried to help and I appreciate that. I think I've said "Thank you" at least a dozen times. Others have essentially said "just buy this, WTF are you even thinking about "that" for". - And while that may be the best advice, one doesn't learn much that way.

Fortunately for me, in this case, I did learn a few things I think. I was told, just buy "this" (that N1200 from Snake) and I likely will.

But I've also asked about 6 times whether or not it's possible to do something that I think I'm uncertain about, and any of you folks, could simply have said "yes, or no" to... I want asking if it was it wise. I was asking is it possible. I asked because I was confused about things I read and things I was told here.

Regardiess. I'm clearly not getting that answer and it's fair to say this has not been a very beneficial thread to the group.

So shut it down. Accept my apology, and let's move on. I can always go back to scouring YouTube videos or reading reviews, or just friggin figuring it out myself right..?

And thanks for the Dennon info. Heh, it makes me wonder sometimes about what a forum would be like for Cars. Telling everyone who wanted a Lincoln to just buy a damn Ford. Or Cadillac fans to just get a Suburban. Better yet, a Challenger guy who just can't understand he's wrong for liking the Charger. *sigh*. People can be so... Well, you know.

Thanks again.

Well, the challenger is ugly and heavy and slow. The charger is better looking and performs closely and you have the convenience of 4 doors(family).
Should buy a camaro. Looks and performance.
If I had the money, I’d totally get the caddy.FTW. The new suburban is almost a luxury vehicle in its own right when outfitted right. But the Escalade is just better.
No. Ever buy a Ford/Lincoln. Unless you want to get towed by your friends Escalade. Lol!!!

Sorry Ian’s dad, couldn’t resist the nerd out.

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

Hey, that's cool, and you're right of course. Remember I'm in Detroit, Birn and bred, so I know all about it.

Found On Road Dead
Fixed Or Repaired Daily..

Actually though I was thinking more along the line of back in the day... when these were all produced on the same line and only took different paths at the final fit and finish stages of the line. In some cases these cars/trucks were different in Badge only, and a flared fender, or different shaped steering wheel.

 

[KEW]

This is what confuses me too.

If full signal is still sent to mains, it’s not bass management really. It’s like bass adjustable to sub but no adjustment to main speakers.

Most people would want to only send lows to the sub

I finally got a chance to download the manual.
The setup process asks you if there is a subwoofer. If you choose "Yes" the receiver applies a Low Pass Filter to the sub at a default of 80Hz and gives you the ability to change that as you like.
I did a keyword search for the word filter and it only occurs twice - both are in reference to the subwoofer LPF.
I would consider the absence of any mention of a high pass filter pretty good evidence that there is none.
However, I also did searches for "crossover", "cross over", and "cross-over"; none of which occur in the manual!

It is disappointing that Marantz decided to use the ability to apply a filter and chose to use it on the subwoofer instead of the speakers. Every sub I know already has a LPF setting included with the sub amp!

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

Thanks again. I see and understand better now. My only solace in this whole thread may be that I wasn't the only one a bit confused. Of course the level of confusion was relative, and mine admittedly topped the chart.

Safe to say though, wouldn't you think, that the Dennon would be no different..?

 

[Pogre]

And thanks for the Dennon info. Heh, it makes me wonder sometimes about what a forum would be like for Cars. Telling everyone who wanted a Lincoln to just buy a damn Ford. Or Cadillac fans to just get a Suburban. Better yet, a Challenger guy who just can't understand he's wrong for liking the Charger. *sigh*. People can be so... Well, you know.

Thanks again.

I think it would be more like someone going to a truck forum asking which Corvette is best for rock crawling.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hey, that's cool, and you're right of course. Remember I'm in Detroit, Birn and bred, so I know all about it.

Found On Road Dead
Fixed Or Repaired Daily..

Actually though I was thinking more along the line of back in the day... when these were all produced on the same line and only took different paths at the final fit and finish stages of the line. In some cases these cars/trucks were different in Badge only, and a flared fender, or different shaped steering wheel.

Lol. Yep, I get it too. I grew up in car culture and my first car was/is a ‘69 camaro. The F-body A body etc “thing” was early platform sharing I guess.

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

I think it would be more like someone going to a truck forum asking which Corvette is best for rock crawling.

?

I'll take that as a final parting insult.

 

[KEW]

Thanks again. I see and understand better now. My only solace in this whole thread may be that I wasn't the only one a bit confused. Of course the level of confusion was relative, and mine admittedly topped the chart.

Safe to say though, wouldn't you think, that the Dennon would be no different..?

The Denon appears to be identical in this respect!
(probably in many other ways as well, but this is the only thing I looked at on both units!)

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

Lol. Yep, I get it too. I grew up in car culture and my first car was/is a ‘69 camaro. The F-body A body etc “thing” was early platform sharing I guess.

That's exactly what it is and means. "F Body" is the actual name of the platform". (The very beginning of the assembly line. Frame and initial sub assemblies) Many cars share this nascent beginning and then branch off further down the line to become other vehicles. You'll also notice that your VIN begins with an "F" in this example.

 

[Pogre]

?

I'll take that as a final parting insult.

A parting insult? From what I've seen not a single person has insulted you but you've implied it multiple times. I know I've tried, several times, to explain to you the the difference between bass management and a sub out. I looked up specs, did comparisons, downloaded an owners manual for a piece of equipment I don't own, listened to your concerns and further explained what, in my opinion, is your best solution.

And you're insulted...

As for your ?, you're asking about stereo receivers and bass management. They're not made for it. Much like a Corvette isn't made to climb on rocks. I think it's a closer "car analogy" than the one you used in this context, which could easily be taken as a parting insult...

 

[KEW]

?

I'll take that as a final parting insult.

Generally, we are not so sophisticated as to insult you subtly. When we start talking trash about your mom, then you'll know!

 

[KEW]

As for your ?, you're asking about stereo receivers and bass management. They're not made for it.

Generally, you are correct, but below are the 4 exceptions that I am aware of. I also remember reading about one that was expensive (something like an Anthem or the like). I didn't remember it because I don't have much interest in expensive receivers (or it may have been an integrated amp).

There is the Outlaw rr 2160 I mentioned earlier, and the Yamaha rn803, and the Onkyo 8270. Pretty sure all these have proper bass management settings that include HPF for the mains and LPF for the sub.
There is also an Integra equivalent to the Onkyo, but I don't remember the model number on it.

 

[Pogre]

Generally, you are correct, but below are the 4 exceptions that I am aware of. I also remember reading about one that was expensive (something like an Anthem or the like). I didn't remember it because I don't have much interest in expensive receivers (or it may have been an integrated amp).

Right, they exist but are not the norm.

Stereo receivers just aren't as subwoofer friendly as an AVR. I personally don't see why they don't do it either. Is it that much more costly to include or is it a purist thing? The NR1200 wouldn't be a bad solution for OP if it just had bass management.

I don't know if it's been brought up, but don't some subs with high level input/outputs have a way set a true crossover or is that generally just a pass through?

 

[KEW]

I don't know if it's been brought up, but don't some subs with high level input/outputs have a way set a true crossover or is that generally just a pass through?

I can't name names, but pretty sure you are right. there also used to be subwoofer crossover boxes made by some of the sub companies which took care of both low-pass and high-pass filters. As is usually the case, they tried about every possible variation and over time, the modern AVR and having a LPF on the subwoofer became the defacto standard.
Pro Audio more often offers subs with bass management built-in. Some allow you to set the frequency and others are fixed (usually at 80Hz). They sometimes also come with a sub on-off foot switch for mixing - the recording engineers like to be able to eliminate the deep bass when they are listening for particular instruments/details at higher frequencies.

 

[lovinthehd]

Did anyone ever come up with a 2ch pre-amp unit with good bass management?