Audio terms BS and not BS

[GrimSurfer]

Agree.

 

[JerryLove]

The "10 biggest lies" is gone.. domain for sale
1. The Cable Lie
2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie
3. The Antidigital Lie
4. The Listening-Test Lie
5. The Feedback Lie
6. The Burn-In Lie
7. The Biwiring Lie
8. The Power Conditioner Lie
9. The CD Treatment Lie
10. The Golden-Ear Lie

 

[JerryLove]

Well it is real, if you can make a point source without phase shift. Your voice is time aligned and for example a flute.

So yes, a good full range driver is time aligned. Things get more more opaque when you add drivers. A lot of people have put a lot of effort into time aligned speakers. That means using first order crossover where the phase shift between drivers is minimal, and trying to align the acoustic centers of the drivers.

There was, at one point, a great deal of discussion about time aligned (phase coherent?) speakers.

So I did what I usually do. I found a couple of examples on the used market and took them for a listen.

The speakers I ended up with were... interesting in several ways; but I cannot say that I noticed anything interesting in listening that I would tie to "time alignment". I'm not saying it is or isn't a real thing; I'm just saying that it was subjectively not noticeable by me.

Of course, my sources may not have been coherent in the first place.

 

[JerryLove]

I’m actually not as dumb as you would surmise

This feels like a straw man. You were not accused of being dumb; you were accused of being lazy.

 

[TankTop5]

This feels like a straw man. You were not accused of being dumb; you were accused of being lazy.

I should really let this die but... so a lazy person goes out of their way to seek out knowledge?


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[AcuDefTechGuy]

The term RMS power is misused since we know the math of a sign wave.

When Audioholics (Gene) measures amps, he measures:

1. Continuous Power 20Hz - 20kHz into 8 and 4 ohms.

2. Dynamic Power 1kHz. "This is a dynamic power measurement adopted from the car industry similar to IHF method, only a bit more difficult for an amplifier and more representative of real musical content."

How do these 2 power measurements fit into the "Average Power" and "Peak Power" discussion in terms of real music/movie content?

Is "Dynamic Power" quoted by manufacturers like Yamaha more representative of real musical content or is it misused and meaningless?

For example, the $129 Yamaha R-S202 receiver has a "Dynamic Power Rating of 180 Watts into 2 ohms". That seems a lot for a cheap $129 receiver. It can go down to 2 ohms even for a short period of time?

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/r-s202/specs.html#product-tabs

 

[JerryLove]

I should really let this die but... so a lazy person goes out of their way to seek out knowledge?

No. A lazy person does the minimum possible to get others to go out of their way to feed knowledge to them.

On a scale of "not lazy" to "lazy".
-Getting an understanding of the fundamental science on a thing through research to gain knowlede.
-Researching the work of others who understand the fundamental science to understand the concepts.
-Seeing if the answer to the specific question you were trying to answer is already out there.
-Asking the question to a general audience without doing any of the above to try to find an answer first.

Now; the opening post phrased a different way might have gotten a very different response. This is a crowd that likes talking about BS in audio. I'm resisting the urge to take sides on those initial posts; but (at the risk of being pedantic) I'm also not fond of a misrepresentation of accusation and will certainly engage in a discussion of the validity of syntactic choices.

 

[JerryLove]

I had a salesman at best buy last night assert that Class D amps were less efficient than class A/B.
Like... literally the opposite of the biggest difference between the two.

 

[TankTop5]

No. A lazy person does the minimum possible to get others to go out of their way to feed knowledge to them.

On a scale of "not lazy" to "lazy".
-Getting an understanding of the fundamental science on a thing through research to gain knowlede.
-Researching the work of others who understand the fundamental science to understand the concepts.
-Seeing if the answer to the specific question you were trying to answer is already out there.
-Asking the question to a general audience without doing any of the above to try to find an answer first.

Now; the opening post phrased a different way might have gotten a very different response. This is a crowd that likes talking about BS in audio. I'm resisting the urge to take sides on those initial posts; but (at the risk of being pedantic) I'm also not fond of a misrepresentation of accusation and will certainly engage in a discussion of the validity of syntactic choices.

Another good response; hey brother, looks like you’re trying to learn about hi fi. Unfortunately there aren’t any short cuts, if you really want to learn, here are some good places to start... please come back when you have questions about what you’re learning.

On the other hand when someone I have never met calls me lazy, someone like myself, new to a forum could get the idea that that people here are snobs. A couple people have mentioned the the forum has been slow lately, anyone ask themselves if there’s a correlation?


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[AcuDefTechGuy]

...someone I have never met calls me lazy...

I don't think you're lazy. For all I know, you could be very hard working.

Some of us don't mind TALKING about anything audio at all.

I think it's better if you talk about things here than search online elsewhere because there are a ton of hearsay everywhere on the university of Google.

 

[GrimSurfer]

When Audioholics (Gene) measures amps, he measures:

1. Continuous Power 20Hz - 20kHz into 8 and 4 ohms.

2. Dynamic Power 1kHz. "This is a dynamic power measurement adopted from the car industry similar to IHF method, only a bit more difficult for an amplifier and more representative of real musical content."

How do these 2 power measurements fit into the "Average Power" and "Peak Power" discussion in terms of real music/movie content?

Is "Dynamic Power" quoted by manufacturers like Yamaha more representative of real musical content or is it misused and meaningless?

For example, the $129 Yamaha R-S202 receiver has a "Dynamic Power Rating of 180 Watts into 2 ohms". That seems a lot for a cheap $129 receiver. It can go down to 2 ohms even for a short period of time?

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/r-s202/specs.html#product-tabs

Simple question, without having to get into the power thing...

How can performance at 1kHz be representative of real musical content?

The fundamental frequencies of musicians instruments range from around 30 Hz to slightly more than 5kHz. When you add to this the 1st, 2nd and 3rd harmonics, you're touching 20 kHz (which is slightly beyond what most people can hear (~15 kHz is typical for most adults).

The term "representative" is very broad. It assumes a discrete data point, or limited set of data points" can be scaled up or down without a significant loss of accuracy. Unless tested and verified for each test subject, it remains an assumption.

So even before we start discussing Dynamic Power were faced with a serious methodological issue. Is performance at one "spot" frequency equally representative as power measured across the entire listening range?

The answer to this is, obviously, no.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I had a salesman at best buy last night assert that Class D amps were less efficient than class A/B.

Did you set him straight?

 

[TankTop5]

I don't think you're lazy. For all I know, you could be very hard working.

Some of us don't mind TALKING about anything audio at all.

I think it's better if you talk about things here than search online elsewhere because there are a ton of hearsay everywhere on the university of Google.

Thanks, I appreciate it! I’ve found short of a college education into a subject, the correct forum can give the best information. I’d like to think I found the right one here.

Thanks again!!!


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[AcuDefTechGuy]

How can performance at 1kHz be representative of real music content?

That part is a DIRECT QUOTE from Gene's measurement section:

Dynamic Power 1kHz. "This is a dynamic power measurement adopted from the car industry similar to IHF method, only a bit more difficult for an amplifier and more representative of real musical content."

 

[GrimSurfer]

That part is a DIRECT QUOTE from Gene's measurement section.

So?

I'm making comment on the point, not the person saying it or posting it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks, I appreciate it! I’ve found short of a college education into a subject, the correct forum can give the best information. I’d like to think I found the right one here.

Thanks again!!!


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Yeah, there is no point going elsewhere around the internet and getting it all wrong. And then come back here to get it right.

Might as well get it right in the first place - which is here on Audioholics.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So?

I'm making comment on the point, not the person saying it or posting it.

Fair enough. I'm also just making sure everyone else knew that it didn't come from me.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Fair enough. I'm also just making sure everyone else knew that it didn't come from me.

No worries. Good quote though, because it's stuff like this that can become canonical law if taken for granted.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I had a salesman at best buy last night assert that Class D amps were less efficient than class A/B.
Like... literally the opposite of the biggest difference between the two.

You should have asked him what he means, how he defines efficiency.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... and more representative of real musical content."

If this is in question, I'd say music is very dynamic hence the short time periods for measuring dynamic power.