I'm so angry with the U.S. and Chinese governments right now!

[Hetfield]

Seriously! "Trump has done some good things and some bad things" is your benchmark for measuring a man? Charles Manson has done some good things and some bad things. So you would defend him as well?
Trump is uniquely different. If you don't see that, I am genuinely surprised.
I don't think it takes much of a reality check to recognize that he has damaged relationships with our allies! He has a tremendous staff turnover rate because he wants to make all the decisions at his own whim. Mattis is not the first US patriot that could not maintain his integrity while acting at Trump's direction.
He blatantly lies whenever he thinks it is in his interest; and casually modifies his story as facts contradict last week's story.
He lacks integrity, lacks maturity, lacks wisdom, lacks honesty, lacks character, and lacks any form of a moral compass.

You absolutely cannot say that about most presidents.

How about the blatant obvious lie yesterday to the troops about the 10% raise. The ease of which his lies flow from his mouth are astounding actually. They said make it 2%, 3%, 4%, 5% I said no make it 10%. I mean that was literally made up in his mind and a compete lie.

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[KEW]

How about the blatant obvious lie yesterday to the troops about the 10% raise. The ease of which his lies flow from his mouth are astounding actually. They said make it 2%, 3%, 4%, 5% I said no make it 10%. I mean that was literally made up in his mind and a compete lie.

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It is almost as if he thinks he can define truth for, at least, some of the population!
Oh...wait!

 

[kystorm]

You're correct, Trump has (tried to do) some of the right ideas (at least at very high level),like taking on China about trade, reducing a stupid level of red tape regarding building anything in the US, and other things, but his implementation is almost always screwed up, his negotiation skills are that of a third-rate NYC real estate developer, and his personal behavior shows that he has little comprehension of or respect for the office he holds. His unwillingness to consider deep analysis before making decisions, his treatment of senior staff members arguably far more qualified than he is, and his incessant misrepresentation of the facts on Twitter is downright embarrassing.

In many ways, trump acts like someone who has never held political office. In some ways that is good, in some ways that is bad, regardless someone needs to get him off twitter.

 

[Hetfield]

It is almost as if he thinks he can define truth for, at least, some of the population!
Oh...wait!

It's because he's George Costanza, if you believe it, its not a lie. He lives in an alternate reality. It's a combination of that and he is diabolical evil and knows what he is doing. He's an awful person. Mick Mulvaney said that, he said he is an awful prison and now that guy is acting Chief of staff.

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[mtrycrafts]

... which is interesting because the Pilgrims left England to get away from the excesses and power wielded by the Roman Catholic Church.

Yes, but that was a very long time ago.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm no expert. but I would have left Graham off the list. I believe he actually walked the walk in addition to talking the talk!

Name's on the list since junior is a drumpf supporter and a hawk and another multi millionaire "evangelist" (not too uncommon for "the walk" it seems)....not much of a Christian IMO. I much prefer separation of church and state....wouldn't mind seeing their tax-free institutions changed to taxable either.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Taxes in Europe are generally much higher than in the US, but it varies by country so Google and Bing are your friends. Germany's income taxes, for example, top out at about 58%, if you include all of their add-ons and whatever. Also, Germany has a 19% VAT, which we don't have either, but Germans don't have sales taxes. I'm pretty sure all Europeans pay more for fuel than we do. South Korea and Israel also have higher tax structures, but taxes cover things in all of these countries that American taxes don't, and these countries are more comparable to US states in population and economic size than the US as a whole. (California's economy is larger than France's, for example.)

I'm not interested in what these other countries pay because they're not comparable to the US in so many ways, and their economic policies are not anything I'd want us to copy. While the EU as a whole is currently about on par with the US GDP, maybe a touch larger, at current growth rates that won't be true next year, and certainly won't be once Great Britain exits as planned.

I really don't care about what goes on elsewhere. I'd just rather fix the tax structure in the US and make it more simple and equitable. And I like flat, simple taxes that deter loopholes, avoidance strategies, and avenues for cheating. I'm fine with progressive tax rates, but not so we get a tax structure like we have, where the top 10% pays over 80% of the taxes, and the top 0.01% pays less as a percentage than wage earners because they can afford avoidance strategies.

Now that is something I can agree with. There are far too many tax avoidance loopholes in taxation legislation. There are poorer people who are paying taxes who can't take advantage of them, and are in effect, subsidising wealthier people who can. I get tax deductions for retirement savings that poor people are in no position to utilize. Charitable donation deductions as well.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think televangelists should be fired into space.

With or without the "tele" IMO.

 

[KEW]

Name's on the list since junior is a drumpf supporter and a hawk and another multi millionaire "evangelist" (not too uncommon for "the walk" it seems)....not much of a Christian IMO. I much prefer separation of church and state....wouldn't mind seeing their tax-free institutions changed to taxable either.

I haven't heard much about his son. I used to live in Western NC, not far from where Billy Graham lived/worked, and he earned my respect through showing integrity and staying true to core principals. I moved out of the area before his son took the wheel. Sad to hear he is not consistent with his dad's values!
I don't have much respect for people who use religion as a means to control/power over other people and/or personal financial gain!

 

[kystorm]

Seriously! "Trump has done some good things and some bad things" is your benchmark for measuring a man? You could accurately say that about every human who has walked the face of the Earth! Charles Manson has done some good things and some bad things. So that makes them all equal?

Trump is uniquely different. If you don't see that, I am genuinely surprised.
I don't think it takes much of a reality check to recognize that he has damaged relationships with our allies! He has a tremendous staff turnover rate because he wants to make all the decisions at his own whim. Mattis is not the first US patriot that could not maintain his integrity while acting at Trump's direction.
He blatantly lies whenever he thinks it is in his interest; and casually modifies his story as facts contradict last week's story.
He lacks integrity, lacks maturity, lacks wisdom, lacks honesty, lacks character, and lacks any form of a moral compass.

You absolutely cannot say that about most presidents.

It doesn't help that many of the good things he has done were done in ways that undermine the civility of our society/culture.

I can absolutely say many of those things about obama
He lied his ever lasting arse off bout many things, including the healthcare bill benghazi fast n furious and a litany of other things that actually affected American lives. I hate to break it to you, but most politicians lie
on both sides of the isle.
You mention allies, well obo basically thumbed his nose at england and absolutely threw Israel under the bus at every turn. I guess our best allies don't count when we can make deals with iran where they call for the destruction of our country? He also invited the muslim brotherhood into the whitehouse on many occasions. Those clowns mission statement is to over throw the us government.
Then you had our good friend loui farrakhan who calls for the extermination of white people. Yep he was let into the white house quite a few times. Kew, theres plenty of finger pointing that can be done.
Does obamas sins excuse trumps? No, but honesty integrity didn't seem to matter just a few years ago.
What changed?

Yes Trump has done some good things and he's done some bad things, seems the recurring theme amongst presidents don't ya think?

Like I said he was the least of 2 evils.

 

[Hetfield]

I can absolutely say many of those things about obama
He lied his ever lasting arse off bout many things, including the healthcare bill benghazi fast n furious and a litany of other things that actually affected American lives. I hate to break it to you, but most politicians lie
on both sides of the isle.
You mention allies, well obo basically thumbed his nose at england and absolutely threw Israel under the bus at every turn. I guess our best allies don't count when we can make deals with iran where they call for the destruction of our country? He also invited the muslim brotherhood into the whitehouse on many occasions. Those clowns mission statement is to over throw the us government.
Then you had our good friend loui farrakhan who calls for the extermination of white people. Yep he was let into the white house quite a few times. Kew, theres plenty of finger pointing that can be done.
Does obamas sins excuse trumps? No, but honesty integrity didn't seem to matter just a few years ago.
What changed?

Yes Trump has done some good things and he's done some bad things, seems the recurring theme amongst presidents don't ya think?

Like I said he was the least of 2 evils.

And this is why you can't argue with these people, they don't live on planet Earth. None of those things are true and are all tinfoil conspiracy BS from Breitbart and Infowars. This is the mentality that got that orange clown elected.

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[KEW]

I can absolutely say many of those things about obama
He lied his ever lasting arse off bout many things, including the healthcare bill benghazi fast n furious and a litany of other things that actually affected American lives. I hate to break it to you, but most politicians lie
on both sides of the isle.

You absolutely can say many of those things about Obama, but if you look at their records for number of lies told, Trump is way ahead of where Obama was after 2 years in office!

You mention allies, well obo basically thumbed his nose at england

Yet, strangely, I have no memory of significant protests of the English people against Obama. Perhaps a matter of degree?
You know, like the kind of guy who would call John McCain a loser "not a hero" because he got captured. I have a "loser uncle" who died at 18 in WW2. He wasn't drafted, as a college student, I think he had an out, but because he was a "loser" (in the eyes of Trump and one would presume his base) he volunteered! Of course, "winners" get notes from doctors about bone spurs to prevent serving their country while playing squash. Maybe "honor" is an important word I missed!

and absolutely threw Israel under the bus at every turn. I guess our best allies don't count when we can make deals with iran where they call for the destruction of our country? He also invited the muslim brotherhood into the whitehouse on many occasions. Those clowns mission statement is to over throw the us government.
Then you had our good friend loui farrakhan who calls for the extermination of white people. Yep he was let into the white house quite a few times.

I think you have your facts mixed up! I Googled "Louis Farrakhan at White House". The the only result was he met with President Ronald Reagan and VP George Bush at the White House in 1984:

There is a lot of controversy about Obama being in a meeting with Farrakhan in 2005, but that was not the White House, and Obama was not president. Since then, he has publicly criticized Farrakhan as being anti-Semitic. You say he was let in to the WH quite a few times, yet a Google search does not show it ever happening under Obama's presidency! If you can show evidence of this happening, I would be interested to see it!

Kew, theres plenty of finger pointing that can be done.
Does obamas sins excuse trumps? No, but honesty integrity didn't seem to matter just a few years ago.
What changed?

Yes Trump has done some good things and he's done some bad things, seems the recurring theme amongst presidents don't ya think?

Indeed, but I have never seen anything like Trump.
I did not like many of the actions of past presidents, but I could always look to them to at least make considered decisions. Instead of discussing options and respecting the people who are experts in a given area (and responsible for that area),they find out what is happening when Trump tweets it to the general public.
So do you support this? It is Trump's standard approach. Who else has a consistent pattern of telling the public before the government agency responsible for implementing the decision.
That is one example of what distinguishes him from the rest of the presidents of the US.
I noticed you left the "moral compass" comment alone! Find an act of a former president which is the equivalent of deliberately separating parents from children of people coming here in the hope of asylum!

 

[Hetfield]

You absolutely can say many of those things about Obama, but if you look at their records for number of lies told, Trump is way ahead of where Obama was after 2 years in office!

Yet, strangely, I have no memory of significant protests of the English people against Obama. Perhaps a matter of degree?
You know, like the kind of guy who would call John McCain a loser "not a hero" because he got captured. I have a "loser uncle" who died at 18 in WW2. He wasn't drafted, as a college student, I think he had an out, but because he was a "loser" (in the eyes of Trump and one would presume his base) he volunteered! Of course, "winners" get notes from doctors about bone spurs to prevent serving their country while playing squash. Maybe "honor" is an important word I missed!


I think you have your facts mixed up! I Googled "Louis Farrakhan at White House". The the only result was he met with President Ronald Reagan and VP George Bush at the White House in 1984:

There is a lot of controversy about Obama being in a meeting with Farrakhan in 2005, but that was not the White House, and Obama was not president. Since then, he has publicly criticized Farrakhan as being anti-Semitic. You say he was let in to the WH quite a few times, yet a Google search does not show it ever happening under Obama's presidency! If you can show evidence of this happening, I would be interested to see it!



Indeed, but I have never seen anything like Trump.
I did not like many of the actions of past presidents, but I could always look to them to at least make considered decisions. Instead of discussing options and respecting the people who are experts in a given area (and responsible for that area),they find out what is happening when Trump tweets it to the general public.
So do you support this? It is Trump's standard approach. Who else has a consistent pattern of telling the public before the government agency responsible for implementing the decision.
That is one example of what distinguishes him from the rest of the presidents of the US.
I noticed you left the "moral compass" comment alone! Find an act of a former president which is the equivalent of deliberately separating parents from children of people coming here in the hope of asylum!

They don't have any facts, it's all tinfoil conspiracy bullshit from Infowars. It's actually fake news and then they piss and moan that cnn is fake news. This is what they do because they do not live in the world called reality.
Hillary has been investigated for 30 years now by people that despise her and not one charge. But at nuckle dragging rallies they will chant like the sheep they are lock her up.

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[KEW]

They don't have any facts, it's all tinfoil conspiracy bullshit from Infowars. It's actually fake news and then they piss and moan that cnn is fake news. This is what they do because they do not live in the world called reality.
Hillary has been investigated for 30 years now by people that despise her and not one charge. But at nuckle dragging rallies they will chant like the sheep they are lock her up.

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It's almost as if common hatred of Hilliary is the best thing Trump has going to energize his crowd!
Given she seems to be a largely non-entity in current politics, you'd think people would be looking for relevant topics.
If Trump genuinely believed there was a case to be made against Hilliary, he could have actually started an investigation of her, but it is more useful to him as a rally cry!
Of course the real irony is that there is a serious potential for Trump to get locked up.

 

[Hetfield]

It's almost as if common hatred of Hilliary is the best thing Trump has going to energize his crowd!
Given she seems to be a largely non-entity in current politics, you'd think people would be looking for relevant topics.
If Trump genuinely believed there was a case to be made against Hilliary, he could have actually started an investigation of her, but it is more useful to him as a rally cry!
Of course the real irony is that there is a serious potential for Trump to get locked up.

Useful to him because he has a crowd and following of useful idiots. When the carnival Barker opens that big trap of his the toothless wonders drool.
When it's Flynn going to jail they say it's the deep state without even trying to understand the facts.

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[mtrycrafts]

....
If Trump genuinely believed there was a case to be made against Hilliary, he could have actually started an investigation of her, ....

After all, he did send investigators to Hawaii to investigate Obama and you would not believe what they found.
Investigating Hillary would save a few trips to Hawaii as she was on the mainland mostly. Oh, I forgot Benghazi. Forgot, she never went there.

 

[Trell]

The Trump Presidency is a litmus test of peoples moral character.

 

[Hetfield]

After all, he did send investigators to Hawaii to investigate Obama and you would not believe what they found.
Investigating Hillary would save a few trips to Hawaii as she was on the mainland mostly. Oh, I forgot Benghazi. Forgot, she never went there.

If I were a reporter I would stalk him each and every single day with one questions asked over and over and over again till that orange fat face of his exploded with anger. What exactly did your investigators find in Hawaii? I'd ask it so many time he'd wish he were taking to Jim Acosta. When he refused to answer I'd call him a clown to his face and drop the mic. That orange piece of absolute garbage deserves no respect because he has never had an ounce for anyone in his life.

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[panteragstk]

It's sad that perception of "facts" matters more than actual facts. People believe something is true, it is. Even if it isn't. It's crazy that so many people buy into what we deem as obvious bullshit. Because a "news" source says it, it must be true. If it's on the internet it must be true. Why would Facebook show me something I agree with if it isn't true?

Hilary to me was so much in it for power as a career politician that I can see why so many voted for the orange box of rocks. She would have screwed things up too, but in different ways. We'll never know. Trump is what I said is exactly what we need as a nation. The epitome of everything that is wrong with the way people see and process information. I just thought he'd be stupid and make us look stupid to the rest of the world, I never thought he'd actually do real damage. I thought he was too stupid and that his cabinet would stop him. Guess not.

The next president will be a breath of fresh air unless dumbass gets elected again. I don't think he will, but who the hell knows. We've had two term presidents for a very long time. The only reason I say they'll be a fresh air pres is because it can't be as bad as he is. No way. I almost (almost) would have voted hillary in if I thought she'd actually try to make a difference, but I don't think she cares one bit about the country. Only about power. That's not a fit for our highest office. We got someone worse though so it went that way anyway.

I hope I live long enough (35) that we get someone that does away with the party against party BS and just tries to get us as a nation to try to solve some of our problems. I know it won't happen any time soon since our public offices have become the worst reality show on TV, but there has to be something we can all do. It's difficult to sit and watch the poop show.

It's difficult to see how stupid everyone actually is.

Sorry for the nonsensical rant.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, but that was a very long time ago.

And who was saying Kennedy would never be elected because he was Catholic? The feeling among non-Catholics hasn't disappeared and I would guess that fewer people came to Catholicism through conversion from the Protestant orders. I think their growth has come more through being born into it than any other way.