The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

[TechHDS]

Well, Dolby just wants everyone to set their Surround Mode to "Dolby Surround" (DSU) and leave it there FOREVER.

Now if the sound is already Atmos or DTSX, then that's easy. Just set the surround mode to STRAIGHT.

But I think the big question is, if the sound is in DTS or DTS-HD MA 5.1/7.1, should we use DTSNX (DTS Neural-X) or DSU (Dolby Surround) surround mode?

And if the sound is in DD or TrueHD 5.1/7.1, should we use DSU or DTSNXU ?

With the Dolby restriction, if the sound is in DD or TrueHD or Atmos, we have to use DSU and cannot use DTSNXU.

So which is better with front Heights? DTS-X? Or Atmos? I will add front heights, 5.1.2

Mike

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hmm so if you are watching regular Netflix does DSU or Neural upmixer try to send stuff to the ceilings even with zero metadata? Or does it require the metadata such as in DD+?

I just know that when I was watching some 2CH contents from Hulu (Castle Rock, Handmaid's Tale), I heard some prominent surround effects from the 4 ceiling speakers, which sounded pretty cool to me.

 

[Bookmark]

Yes that was my thoughts. As close as I could. I watched the first 35 mins in Neural X, then backed it up 5mins and switched to the DSU. Just watching the rest now..

@AcuDefTechGuy Out of curiosity are all your base layer speakers at the same height? I have a height difference between the front LCR and rear and back Surrounds. I may have been one of the reasons I thought overhead things like rain and thunder worked ok when it was only 7.1

 

[Bookmark]

I would still agree with Gene and others, DSU works better for the music.

 

[panteragstk]

I would still agree with Gene and others, DSU works better for the music.

DSU is VERY good with music. I listened to Pink Floyd's Money from DSOTM on DVD-A vs the stereo mix and it's difficult to tell the difference. I was very surprised. Of course, not all music will sound good using the upmixer, but it's very cool with what it decides to extract and where to put it.

I will say that I'm glad I got my 4300h when I did because it will let me use whatever upmixer I want regardless of the source codec. I found that DSU did have a much larger soundstage than DTS:X upmixer. I am interested in trying the DTS upmixer with some other content to see how it sounds extracting height info.

Good article.

 

[Bookmark]

@TechHDS I think the consensus so far was for a x.x.2 setup, overheads probably give the better results. I know when I only had the Front heights set (admittedly too low) it did not really make a lot of difference. It could be film related of course and some make use of the rear height more than the fronts.

If it has to be a front location for the speakers then perhaps the up firing atmos kind might work better.

With the 4 it just kind of creates a ceiling for certain effects like the bombing of District 13 in Hunger Games Mockingjay Part 1.

 

[andyblackcat]

Olympus Has Fallen (2013) Director Antoine Fuqua has some dynamic film mixes. dtshdma using the dts + Neural:X has an aggressive overhead with helicopters, gunfire even draws attention on chapter 8, 1:10.44 Kang (Rick Yune) voice appears over the white house pa system while agent Banning (Gerard Butler) walks around looking for the bad guys. Hand to Hand with Foley punches is felt,

Olympus Has Fallen is slightly better action film than, London has Fallen (2016).

Chapter 9, 1:20.22 assault helicopters black hawks

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

William, ya not an idiot bro, Never I’m the definition of an idiot, 4 EX wife’s I would say make me an idiot!! or someone who had a grudge against his ass!

Mike

Thanks brother. 4 ex wives? Well that’s 4 that you know for sure aren’t the one!

Lolo, thanks Bro! Now I just use a escort service, who knew hookers hangout in barrooms! Lol

Mike

Hookers are so much cheaper than wives...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hmm so if you are watching regular Netflix does DSU or Neural upmixer try to send stuff to the ceilings even with zero metadata? Or does it require the metadata such as in DD+?

Yes that’s correct. The upmixer uses whatever algorithms necessary to create 3d sounds.

Edit:
Also, it seems to be slightly related to the title but, I would say “dtsu” is more aggressive with its presentation and likely better for demos to people that would be impacted more with this kind of track. Also better for music. “Dsu” on the other hand seems more natural,(better imo) and better for those that will have the patience to sit and be saturated by the soundtrack.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@AcuDefTechGuy Out of curiosity are all your base layer speakers at the same height? I have a height difference between the front LCR and rear and back Surrounds. I may have been one of the reasons I thought overhead things like rain and thunder worked ok when it was only 7.1

Four of the SX-T2 Towers are identical height (60” tall). The Center SX-T2 is separated into 2 x 30”-cabinets (SX-T1 and SX-1010) side-by-side and Angled or tilted Upward.

 

[Auditor55]

I would still agree with Gene and others, DSU works better for the music.

For music, Auro is better than both.

 

[Blue Dude]

For music, I don't use an upmixer at all. Whatever format the music comes in at is what it comes out as. The only exception is Audyssey processing and bass management. 2 channel is "stereo" and multi channel is "Multi ch in". I'm very satisfied with that arrangement.

 

[andyblackcat]

I will need to try this with a Dolby film. As I say I was surprised by how well the Catwoman worked.

"Meow" lots of cats in this film.
Dolby digital using the dts-Neural:X I think the bass/LFE.1 perfect

No need to upgrade this yet the picture is fine with upscale to 4k only watched it 5 times so over the years.

Chapter 16, 0:53.24 the bad guy trying to throw punches at Catwoman with airy low end.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So which is better with front Heights? DTS-X? Or Atmos? I will add front heights, 5.1.2

Mike

I think it depends on the movie. Right now it seems to me that Atmos sounds better for heights and ceilings.

If I couldn’t hang ceiling speakers above me, I would mount Speakers on the Side Walls all the Up the ceiling height and angle those speakers right at me.

Mount 2 speakers just Slightly in front of you (call them Front L and Front Right Overhead Presence) and 2 speakers just slightly behind you (Rear L and R Overhead Presence).

Heck, if you can locate the ceiling studs, hang the speakers on the ceiling about 3 FT from the side walls.

Buy those cable concealers to hide the speaker cables. You can paint them the same color as your wall too.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JKO8724/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[snakeeyes]

Four of the SX-T2 Towers are identical height (60” tall). The Center SX-T2 is separated into 2 x 30”-cabinets (SX-T1 and SX-1010) side-by-side and Angled or tilted Upward.

I’ll try to take a picture of it.

What are the ceiling speakers in this 5.1.4 ?

 

[Bookmark]

Funnily enough @andyblackcat my kittens weren't that impressed. They did like Bourne legacy a lot more, clearly adrenaline junkies.

@Auditor55 , Yes I think people who have the Auro have commented how well it works. Unfortunately not an option for me with the Yammy or Marantz (needed the model above) @PENG and @Drunkpenguin should be able to give it a go though as I think their Denon's have that.

So this is hardly definitive and really just my personal opinion.

I've watched all of the Force Awakens and this worked well. Probably the best it has sounded using Neural X to up mix the Dts HDMA. True Atmos or Dts:X would most likely be better still, however until I start getting some of these UHD discs this will work for now.

I am watching the Olympus has Fallen, only a Dts copy, up mixed. I have checked the plane arrival @~21 mins in. The Neural X mix sounded clearer/crisper than the DSU, but the DSU brings the effects more out into the room. Again it is not night and day, just I thought I could make out more of the gun fire during the action.

On balance I think the Neural X leaves the 5.1/7.1 channels more alone and just adds to the top layer. DSU is a bit more aggressive in its additions and this could work better for the ambient stuff in the mix. I think it is just going to be on a film by film basis as to which works best. I will try Batman Begins or National Treasure later as these are in True HD audio. Possibly this is where the DSU shines over the Neural X.

 

[Bookmark]

So Olympus finished and overall I think it was improved nicely over 7.1

Just started Batman Begins, checked the credits and initial bat scene and in this case DSU is clearly the better option for the True HD. Kind of makes sense since they probably know how to get the best out of their respective codecs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think as far as DSU vs DTSU Movie/TV Upmixer:

1. If the content is DTS, then DTSU sounds better than DSU.

2. If the content is Dolby, the. DSU sounds better than DTSU.

3. If the content is neither Dolby nor DTS, then it’s a toss up.

 

[andyblackcat]

Funnily enough @andyblackcat my kittens weren't that impressed. They did like Bourne legacy a lot more, clearly adrenaline junkies.

I am watching the Olympus has Fallen, only a Dts copy, up mixed. I have checked the plane arrival @~21 mins in. The Neural X mix sounded clearer/crisper than the DSU, but the DSU brings the effects more out into the room. Again it is not night and day, just I thought I could make out more of the gun fire during the action.

On balance I think the Neural X leaves the 5.1/7.1 channels more alone and just adds to the top layer. DSU is a bit more aggressive in its additions and this could work better for the ambient stuff in the mix. I think it is just going to be on a film by film basis as to which works best. I will try Batman Begins or National Treasure later as these are in True HD audio. Possibly this is where the DSU shines over the Neural X.

Bookmark, You think? Your still going to have the other speakers all playing with no way to quickly undo wires or even better mute channels to closely listen to what is happening with matrix decoding. Oh sorry they call it "upmixer" still sounds like a matrix that switches in when its not a native discrete Dolby atmos - dtshdma dtsX with extra discrete channels called height channels. Still too bad there isn't discrete below surround as some of the scenes in "Olympus has Fallen" has lots happening at below that is clearly seen on the screen when comparing that to where the image is in the cinema or home and where "you" or "I" "or anyone else" is standing or seated. Sound does happen below if your above in the sky and plane flies in below you hence the sound location is going be below you. I wouldn't go crazy on buying too many uhd4k as the cost of the discs will soon cost more than the AVR/AVP and when another discrete channels is offered to dubbing theaters for mixing/encoding for ... do you want me to continue to depressing you? As its more depressing to me that this format is a bit of white elephant when its still very limited in terms over fabricated sound mixing encoding/decoding sound excitement. Real Life sound is still the unbeatable that we can all relate to and agree on because it is what it is and will never change.

 

[Bookmark]

Nothing was changing, speakers,amp, volume, other than back stepping the film 5 mins and switching the Processor from DSU to Neural X and vice versa. It's not scientific or probably optimal, just relatively quick.

The thing is my room, speaker choices and placement versus yours probably have a lot more to do with whether you or I notice any great difference over 5.1/7.1, heights, overheads or even if DSU or Neural X actually changes anything. My room I know is not a perfect setup and the calibrations probably need good deal more refinement, but it does for now.

Like all bad zealots and recent converts I believe I am hearing things. I will say my fiddling about with placement and numbers has, I believe had real improvements for actual Dolby Atmos/Dts:X films. The upmixers may well just be an illusion and bad memory from when I last watched a particular film, which could be well over a year or two. Also attempting to quickly change upmixers is awfully like non double blind test, ie prone to subjective bias. I hear it because I want to.

William thinks Neural X is more aggressive, ADTG thinks DSU just does the better overall job and I am possibly in the pick Dolby for Dolby and Dts for Dts camp. Perhaps none of us are right and Auro is the best. The more other people try the more opinions, perhaps the better all of us are informed. A DBT with a larger group might help here.