Matching Power to Pre and using Anthem MRX 510 as a Pre

[rkumarblr]

1. What is the sensitivity, gain and output voltage of the MRX 510 pre ?
If I wish to connect it with an external power amp ? How do I verify, technically (not by audition) that the power amp will match ?

I do know that an AVR as a pre is not the best solution but want know how to match pre to power.
I am given to understand that the MRX 510 unlike other receivers does not set the pre into protection model when driven above the spec of the internal power amp which is 75w per channel 5 channels driven.

2. Will ARC (calibration and setup) work when using the MRX 510 as a pre and an external power amp for the power ?

3. Does the Anthem MRX 510 allow for an HDMI input once used in one of the input setup to be again mapped in a different input setup ?
That is , can I use Input Setup 1 to be HDMI 1 for audio and video
and Input Setup 2 to be again HDMI 1 for video but set audio to off or one of the optical/coax
If using HDMI 1 gets disabled from being selectable while defining input setup 2 then. I suppose the above can not be done.

Any input form folks who own Anthem or know of Anthem is highly appreciated.

 

[PENG]

1. What is the sensitivity, gain and output voltage of the MRX 510 pre ?
If I wish to connect it with an external power amp ? How do I verify, technically (not by audition) that the power amp will match ?

You can get the following from their website

MRX510 pre output

Maximum Output (<0.1% THD) 3.5 Vrms, subwoofer channel 6.1 Vrms

You will have to email them about the sensitivity and gain, my guess is, probably 1.2 to 2V. The MRX 510 should be suitable for use with most power amps in the 200 to 300 WPC range.

I do know that an AVR as a pre is not the best solution but want know how to match pre to power.
I am given to understand that the MRX 510 unlike other receivers does not set the pre into protection model when driven above the spec of the internal power amp which is 75w per channel 5 channels driven.

It seems to me you understand incorrectly. If the MRX is driven past 5X75W (practically unlikely) or even slightly below that, it should shutdown too, or they wouldn't get CSA approval that would be for good reasons.

Others like Denon and Marantz typically have higher output ratings even with 5 channel driven than Anthem's in the same price range. The issue is, they tend to specify only their 2 channel driven rating so to get their 5, and 7 channel limits you have to rely on 3rd thirty reviews/lab measurements such as those done by Sound and Visions, AVtech etc.

For better understanding of power output related topics I suggest you read up on the related articles on this site.

2. Will ARC (calibration and setup) work when using the MRX 510 as a pre and an external power amp for the power ?

I am sure ARC will work just the same.

3. Does the Anthem MRX 510 allow for an HDMI input once used in one of the input setup to be again mapped in a different input setup ?
That is , can I use Input Setup 1 to be HDMI 1 for audio and video
and Input Setup 2 to be again HDMI 1 for video but set audio to off or one of the optical/coax
If using HDMI 1 gets disabled from being selectable while defining input setup 2 then. I suppose the above can not be done.

I don't understand the question, for example, what do you mean by "input Setup1"?

 

[slipperybidness]

The BEST way to obtain the info that the OP is looking for concerning matching pre/power gains and sensitivity, etc, is to hook up a dummy load, apply a sine wave with a function generator, vary the amplitude of the sine, and measure the outputs on an o-scope. When I build an amp, that's exactly what I do. I have target values that I build into the design by choosing the proper values of components, then I confirm that I hit target with measurements.

Since manufacturers don't all follow the same rating protocol, that is really the ONLY way to be 100% certain.

But, I highly doubt there will be any problem using that Anthem as a pre.

 

[rkumarblr]

Thanks PENG and slipperybidness
PENG, the Anthem and most other AVR allows the user to setup inputs like BluRay, DVD etc (you can even rename the inputs) that can be mapped to the video and audio of choice. So now if you re-read my question it may be clear on what I seek.

Thanks

 

[fmw]

Take preamp, take amp, run cables between them. Matched. OP you are concerned about something of no concern. The amp will always have a higher impedance. The output voltage of the preamp will only affect how far you need to turn the volume control to get the desired SPL.

 

[PENG]

Thanks PENG and slipperybidness
PENG, the Anthem and most other AVR allows the user to setup inputs like BluRay, DVD etc (you can even rename the inputs) that can be mapped to the video and audio of choice. So now if you re-read my question it may be clear on what I seek.

Thanks

I am aware of what most AVRs can do in assigning inputs and renaming them because I have done it many times. What you seem to be talking about is to use assign more than one input source to the same HDMI input. So if I understood you right, you would connect the output of one device to say, HDMI 1, but you then assign not only that device but also another device to the same HDMI 1? If that is what you meant, then I highly doubt Anthem can do it. Mind you I don't own an Anthem AVR, just an Anthem power amplifier, but I did read up on their AVRs before I bought my AVRs and prepros. Their instruction manuals gave no indication that they allow more than one device to assign to the same HDMI input but to be sure you should email them directly.

 

[KEW]

I'm not sure if this is what you are after, and can't say what the Arcam does, but my Marantz SR-7008 (and probably most recent Denon's or Marantz's) does the following:

Source: Sony "smart" BDP which will play BD or stream (including Pandora).

Audyssey set my sub level at -7.5 dB. For playing a DVD/BD, I changed the setting to -2.5dB because I enjoy the extra bass. For Pandora (streamed through my BDP) I changed the setting to -9.5dB because the bass gets in the way of the music (this is very much a function of the specific recording, but I find turning the sub down 2dB gives me a practical compromise for "set it and forget it" convenience).

The connection between the BDP and the AVR is a single HDMI, but the subwoofer level is -9.5dB every time I listen to Pandora and -2.5 every time I watch a DVD (I suspect it is tied to whatever tells the AVR to use DTS).

 

[PENG]

I'm not sure if this is what you are after, and can't say what the Arcam does, but my Marantz SR-7008 (and probably most recent Denon's or Marantz's) does the following:

Source: Sony "smart" BDP which will play BD or stream (including Pandora).

Audyssey set my sub level at -7.5 dB. For playing a DVD/BD, I changed the setting to -2.5dB because I enjoy the extra bass. For Pandora (streamed through my BDP) I changed the setting to -9.5dB because the bass gets in the way of the music (this is very much a function of the specific recording, but I find turning the sub down 2dB gives me a practical compromise for "set it and forget it" convenience).

The connection between the BDP and the AVR is a single HDMI, but the subwoofer level is -9.5dB every time I listen to Pandora and -2.5 every time I watch a DVD (I suspect it is tied to whatever tells the AVR to use DTS).

He said in his post#1:

"3. Does the Anthem MRX 510 allow for an HDMI input once used in one of the input setup to be again mapped in a different input setup ?
That is , can I use Input Setup 1 to be HDMI 1 for audio and video
and Input Setup 2 to be again HDMI 1 for video but set audio to off or one of the optical/coax
If using HDMI 1 gets disabled from being selectable while defining input setup 2 then. I suppose the above can not be done."

I read it again and again but still not totally clear about what he is after, so I hope you have better luck but it doesn't look like you have it figured out yet either.

My best guess is that he wants to assign the same input source (example: a blu ray player) but use two different setups or what D&M call "input assign", to the same HDM1 such that "input setup" 1 will be for the typical video and audio, "input setup" 2 will actually be the same input source, example: a blu ray player, but this time he wants the HDMI to handle video only and use optical or digital coax for audio. He said he could do it with his Rotel and I would think if Rotel has such feature, Anthem will have the same or similar, just that I am not 100% sure what he wants to achieve.

 

[rkumarblr]

Thanks for the replies KEW and PENG.
PENG you got my question right.
The Anthem in their manual called it input setup and so I used that.
Input Assign make it more clear and yes I was trying to check with Anthem users if the input assign can be done like the way you described it above.
And yes my Rotel allows for it. But checked a Yamaha and that does not.
My use case is I listen to the device in one case through my 5.1 speakers connected to the receiver and in the other case the video goes the same route through receiver to TV but audio is through my wireless headphone processor. The device has only one HDMI out and one Optical out and hence the issue. If it had two HDMI outs I could have connected two HDMI cable into the receiver and that would have met my needs.

Only a Anthem user and one that understands the question can answer it. Since its not a feature as such, its just how flexible input assignments can be made. I find the Rotel to be extremely flexible when compared to the others.

 

[PENG]

Only a Anthem user and one that understands the question can answer it. Since its not a feature as such, its just how flexible input assignments can be made. I find the Rotel to be extremely flexible when compared to the others.

I have been doing something similar (but different) with my current Marantz prepro and previously a Denon AVR. There are a few Anthem AVR users around here, one comes to mind is billyp, you can search him out and pm him. Any reason why you won't just give Anthem tech support a call?

Please let us know what you find out. I may consider an Anthem too just to try out their ARC, but only when the C$ recovers to near par, even then I am not sure if I can give up some of the features I now enjoy.

 

[sterling shoote]

Reading this thread, reinforces my belief that today's pre/pros are so feature bound that they create more anxiety than pleasure. Such complication almost certainly means trouble, like some little feature, such as Wi-Fi, never working properly. I'm glad I bought a pure 5.1 analog pre-amp (Sony TA-P9000ES) which simply uses the relative inexpensive decoding found in some of todays universal players like the Oppo's. As long as the technology advances in the universal players, along with analog output, I'm poised to enjoy without the hassle of memorizing the text book size operating manuals of the digital pre/pros out there today. And, there's no redundancy. Oh, and one more thing, what happens when you don't operate the pre/pro everyday, or your wife wants to use it when you're out of town, to show a movie to the grandkids? Would she get beyond just turning it on? With my system it's just turn on the player, turn on TV and set input, and then turn on amps. It's so easy.

 

[little wing]

I agree, today's pre/pros and receivers seem very complicated IMO. I've read posts where people say I use one setting or configuration for music and another for movies, and a few who have even said they use different settings for different types of music! I have held off buying a new receiver partly because of the complication of newer models.
But the problem with relying on the technology of universal players is very few receivers have 7.1 multi channel inputs anymore. Anthem doesn't, and Yahama and Denon have dropped it from some of their higher end receivers as well.

Speaking of Anthem; I just checked their web-site and the MRX 720 is now rated at 140 watts per channel. I thought that was interesting.

 

[slipperybidness]

I agree, today's pre/pros and receivers seem very complicated IMO. I've read posts where people say I use one setting or configuration for music and another for movies, and a few who have even said they use different settings for different types of music! I have held off buying a new receiver partly because of the complication of newer models.
But the problem with relying on the technology of universal players is very few receivers have 7.1 multi channel inputs anymore. Anthem doesn't, and Yahama and Denon have dropped it from some of their higher end receivers as well.

Speaking of Anthem; I just checked their web-site and the MRX 720 is now rated at 140 watts per channel. I thought that was interesting.

If you want a less complicated receiver with great sound quality, then start looking at Cambridge Azur or NAD.

 

[little wing]

If you want a less complicated receiver with great sound quality, then start looking at Cambridge Azur or NAD.

Thanks I will. I was looking at the Denon X6200w, and the manual is a dizzying 363 pages! Just way to many sound altering options. On my short list also was the Anthem MRX720. Looking at manuals for these new receivers just makes me want to keep my ancient Yamaha RX V2500, that is simple to operate and sounds good. (No HDMI of course) Have you heard of any HDMI issues with NAD?

 

[PENG]

My goodness what's the matter with people nowadays? I thought more features equals more fun. To me I want my AVR to have all the features there is because I consider them toys. For sound quality, within the same price group they typically all sound the same to most humans in pure direct. So all you need to do is press one button and you can pretend it is a NAD, Anthem, Denon or even Sony. For serious music listening I always go back to my two channel systems, end of story.

 

[rkumarblr]

Got a response from Anthem technical support that it can do the input assignments they way I indicated and what PENG and I exchanged in response #8 and #9.

I was never satisfied on the Stereo sound from the HT setup even using Rotel as pre and power, partly due to the room challenges. Fortunately could setup an independent system. So planing to switch from my Rotel Pre Pro that does not support Master Audio and THD to a receiver that can and hence the research.

Given the price of Anthem MRX 510 and 710 in India which is 60% or more higher than in the US. I am now considering Marantz SR6010

 

[PENG]

Got a response from Anthem technical support that it can do the input assignments they way I indicated and what PENG and I exchanged in response #8 and #9.

I was never satisfied on the Stereo sound from the HT setup even using Rotel as pre and power, partly due to the room challenges. Fortunately could setup an independent system. So planing to switch from my Rotel Pre Pro that does not support Master Audio and THD to a receiver that can and hence the research.

Given the price of Anthem MRX 510 and 710 in India which is 60% or more higher than in the US. I am now considering Marantz SR6010

Thank you for the feedback. The SR6010 is a great choice! As I mentioned I own an Anthem amp so I can imagine their AVRs must be well made too. In terms of values I find it hard to defend when compared to the more popular brands such as Denon, Marantz and Yamaha's. The SR6010 has Audyssey XT32 and Sub EQ HT that I find very effective in setting up 1 or 2 subwoofers; and it does provide the option to bypass the left/right channel if you don't like what it does to the higher frequencies.

 

[rkumarblr]

XT32 is supposed to be equally good when compared to ARC (just my reading from the forums)

The one benefit I see in the Anthem ARC is that it has a setting to cut off the higher frequencies above 300 to 500 Hz or what you pick before applying ARC.
Which I suppose is better than bypass L & R all together.

I am not sure how one decides as to what level to cut is to be set at.

Also Anthem ARC has a Quick Setup that helps to pick the right position for the Sub form among a few that you choose. I do not suppose the Marantz has that, so a room crawl with the Sub at the sweet spot is what I plan to do before the XT32 correction.

Now assuming the sound signature and the power ratings of Anthem 510 and Marantz SR6010 to be similar. The 6010 has a lot more for the price by way of both Audio and Video (example HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2) I am not referring to Bluetooth and Airplay there are other ways to do that. I am speaking of decoding formats and future proof.

Ultimately what matters is what sounds good. I am hoping the Marantz can sound as good, which depends on room, speakers etc. The rest of the features is bonus when and if one need it in the future. That way 6010 scores above the 510 for the price.

 

[PENG]

XT32 is supposed to be equally good when compared to ARC (just my reading from the forums)

The one benefit I see in the Anthem ARC is that it has a setting to cut off the higher frequencies above 300 to 500 Hz or what you pick before applying ARC.
Which I suppose is better than bypass L & R all together.

I am not sure how one decides as to what level to cut is to be set at.

Also Anthem ARC has a Quick Setup that helps to pick the right position for the Sub form among a few that you choose. I do not suppose the Marantz has that, so a room crawl with the Sub at the sweet spot is what I plan to do before the XT32 correction.

Now assuming the sound signature and the power ratings of Anthem 510 and Marantz SR6010 to be similar. The 6010 has a lot more for the price by way of both Audio and Video (example HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2) I am not referring to Bluetooth and Airplay there are other ways to do that. I am speaking of decoding formats and future proof.

Ultimately what matters is what sounds good. I am hoping the Marantz can sound as good, which depends on room, speakers etc. The rest of the features is bonus when and if one need it in the future. That way 6010 scores above the 510 for the price.

I read about the pros and cons of the two REQ systems too and it really depends on who you choose to believe as I think those are all mainly subjective comments. The objective parts are the facts, such as the difference in features you pointed out, and the before and after graphs but even those will still depend on the operator who ram the setup and plotted the graphs. According the the graphs I plotted myself, XT32 did make improvements for me in my room so I don't need to us the bypass feature, but I have seen others, including Gene's, that don't look as nice. I have no ideas why it would work well for some, and not so well or even poorly for others.

Regarding the sound signature thing, Anthem and Marantz both aim for accurate/neutral sound and this being a matured non rocket science technology, they should theoretically sound similar to most (given that there are always exceptions, such as gifted people) people. Again I do not own any MRX but I have A/B my Anthem power amp with my Marantz and Adcom amps and found no difference in the so call sound signature. That was the same with either my Denon AVR-4308 or Marantz AV8801, 7005 prepros. I have also recently installed a SR7009, and that has no trouble powering the MA Silver 8 in a large HT room. So if you trust the Anthem sound, I think you can trust the Marantz "sound" too.

 

[rkumarblr]

PENG that is reassuring thanks a lot.
So if all goes well I should get the SR6010 in a few days and if the power is not adequate for my setup may consider pairing it with a power amp (Sherbourn 7-150 that is likely to be available) in the future.