Receiver upgrade help

[markw]

There's no problem at all mixing different brands of receivers/preamps and power amps. None at all.

Oh, I didn't mention it but there's nothing wrong with that Marantz power amp. I just wanted to offer some alternatives.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Okay thanks. Im very glad you mentioned the alternatives. In fact, that xpa-3 is looking pretty sexy to me brotha!

 

[armed]

Hey, I've been wondering about Audyssey. Is the calibration process difficult or is it pretty user friendly? I didn't know how technical it was or if its pretty much a follow the directions on the screen thing? I don't have an SPL meter or anything like that and if you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not real tech savvy, LOL!

its pretty simple, it comes with the mic already, plug it in, and just follow the screen. you just have to hold the mic and let it do the magic... i have an avr1613 its ok...thinking about upgrading too myself. Im looking at ONKYO AVRs...wifi/preouts/Zones

 

[Ty Wayne]

its pretty simple, it comes with the mic already, plug it in, and just follow the screen. you just have to hold the mic and let it do the magic... i have an avr1613 its ok...thinking about upgrading too myself. Im looking at ONKYO AVRs...wifi/preouts/Zones

Okay thanks. So its simple just like mcacc on my Pioneer (plug in mic and follow directions). I can do that!

As for AVR's, I've studied a few Onkyo's but for whatever reason I keep getting drawn back to Denon's and Marantz's. Is it me or do Onkyo's AVR's seem large? I dunno. Either way, Im pretty much only interested in having some pre-outs and I do want wifi. Zones are irrelevant in my situation, though all of the AVR's I've looked at do come with that option.

Right now Im stoked about that Emotiva xpa-3 amp. So glad Mark mentioned Emotiva's! I wasn't too enthused with the other amps I'd seen prior to that. Seems like there isn't much of a selection by other brands. Either that, or I just don't know where to look?

 

[PENG]

Hey TV Wayne, given that you seem to be addicted to Denon's look and the fact that your Ascend 340 SEs are relatively easy to drive, why not try the X3100W first? It has wifi, blue tooth and preouts all for $499 brand new. If I were in the US I would buy one just for fun.

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/bluetooth/avreceiversbt/avrx3100w

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X3100W-Bluetooth-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B00KONGJOO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1441881706&sr=1-1&keywords=denon+x3100w

If, and only if, you still want an amp for whatever reason then add an XPA-2.

https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-2

For $100 more the XPA-2 will get you twice as much headroom as the XPA-3 for the L/R. The AVR should be able to drive the center and surround channels with adequate reserve.

 

[herbu]

I realize its only two channels, but I assume (?) this would be sufficient for me.

Ty, I read back thru this thread, looking for some indication whether TV/Movies or music is more important to you. I couldn't find anything. Think about it because the following becomes very important...

1. Music is most often recorded and mastered in stereo... 2 channels... Left & Right. That's why most audiophiles listen to music in stereo... 2 channels... Left & Right. In this case, a 2-channel amp would suit your needs.

2. TV/Movies put the vast majority of sound thru the Center speaker. A distant second are the L/R channels. The L/C/R channels together are so far ahead of the Surround L/R they're not even on the same lap... and the Rear Surround L/R are twice as far behind. So if TV/Movies/Gaming is your priority, you would be neglecting the "primary" channel if you got a 2-channel amp. You NEED the 3-channel amp for L/C/R.

 

[PENG]

Ty, I read back thru this thread, looking for some indication whether TV/Movies or music is more important to you. I couldn't find anything. Think about it because the following becomes very important...

1. Music is most often recorded and mastered in stereo... 2 channels... Left & Right. That's why most audiophiles listen to music in stereo... 2 channels... Left & Right. In this case, a 2-channel amp would suit your needs.

2. TV/Movies put the vast majority of sound thru the Center speaker. A distant second are the L/R channels. The L/C/R channels together are so far ahead of the Surround L/R they're not even on the same lap... and the Rear Surround L/R are twice as far behind. So if TV/Movies/Gaming is your priority, you would be neglecting the "primary" channel if you got a 2-channel amp. You NEED the 3-channel amp for L/C/R.

The only part I would disagree slightly is that a good mid range AVR should be able to drive the center speaker and the surrounds in small to medium size room for normal people. I would focus my money on the L/R for music and that's why I would never consider the XPA-5. Movies may use the center channel a lot but that if you crossover at 80 to 100 Hz, you won't miss the power that much. I guess you are right though, may be it is just me who don't care too much about the center. In fact if I sit in the middle and I am not lazy, I would set it to off.

 

[herbu]

The only part I would disagree slightly is that a good mid range AVR should be able to drive the center speaker and the surrounds in small to medium size room for normal people.

Absolutely agree. A good mid range AVR, a small to medium room, and normal people would have no need for any amp. But he didn't ask normal people. He asked us.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Hey TV Wayne, given that you seem to be addicted to Denon's look and the fact that your Ascend 340 SEs are relatively easy to drive, why not try the X3100W first? It has wifi, blue tooth and preouts all for $499 brand new. If I were in the US I would buy one just for fun.

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/bluetooth/avreceiversbt/avrx3100w

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X3100W-Bluetooth-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B00KONGJOO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1441881706&sr=1-1&keywords=denon+x3100w

If, and only if, you still want an amp for whatever reason then add an XPA-2.

https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-2

For $100 more the XPA-2 will get you twice as much headroom as the XPA-3 for the L/R. The AVR should be able to drive the center and surround channels with adequate reserve.

Thanks PENG. Its funny. Last night after Mark pointed me to those Emotiva amp's I started thinking similar to you and was looking at some less expensive AVR's. The x3100w is one I'm now considering, along with the Yamaha RX-A840. I'm actually leaning towards the Yamaha right now.

I've gotta ask....how much stock do you guys put into reviews on Amazon??? The Denon X3100W only gets 3.5 stars while the Yamaha RX-A840 gets 4.5 stars. This sways my preference towards the Yamaha, but do you guys feel like I should put much faith in that or not?

As for amps, I considered going with a two channel, but for whatever reason, justified or not, I want the three channel xpa-3 for the L,R,C. Do I NEED that extra channel for the center? Probably not. But heck, I'm not even sure I NEED a power amp at all, LOL. I just WANT it!

Ty, I read back thru this thread, looking for some indication whether TV/Movies or music is more important to you. I couldn't find anything. Think about it because the following becomes very important...

1. Music is most often recorded and mastered in stereo... 2 channels... Left & Right. That's why most audiophiles listen to music in stereo... 2 channels... Left & Right. In this case, a 2-channel amp would suit your needs.

2. TV/Movies put the vast majority of sound thru the Center speaker. A distant second are the L/R channels. The L/C/R channels together are so far ahead of the Surround L/R they're not even on the same lap... and the Rear Surround L/R are twice as far behind. So if TV/Movies/Gaming is your priority, you would be neglecting the "primary" channel if you got a 2-channel amp. You NEED the 3-channel amp for L/C/R.

Yeah, I probably should've clarified what I use my system for. I failed to do that. I'd say I use it 50/50. I listen to a lot of music, and it seems I've been gradually listening to more and more ever since I got the Ascends. Music is becoming more and more important to me, and yes, I definitely prefer 2 channel stereo. Very rarely will I listen to all 5 channels in stereo, and when I do, its only for a moment just to see what it sounds like.

Absolutely agree. A good mid range AVR, a small to medium room, and normal people would have no need for any amp. But he didn't ask normal people. He asked us.

LOL. So true. I used to think I was normal, but I think you guys have corrupted me!
FWIW, my room is somewhere around 13 x 18 with 8' ceilings. I feel like my Center is PLENTY loud and clear when gaming or watching movies/tv. No way do I NEED an amp for the center. But, I just WANT it for whatever reason. No, its not normal!


So, in summary, should I put much faith in reviews on Amazon concerning the Denon X3100W versus the Yamaha RX-A840?

Secondly, do you feel like I'm making a pretty good upgrade for the cost by getting either two of the aforementioned AVR's along with an xpa-3 amp?

The Yamaha is 500.00 at accessories4less, and the Denon is 400.00 at the same site. The xpa-3 is going to cost me 800.00.

 

[PENG]

If you are already corrupt, then consider this:

XPA-2 - 1200 VA transformer, 45,000 uf storage capacitance for 2 channels.

XPA-3 - 850 VA transformer, 60,000 uf storage capacitance for 3 channels.

So you your math, but keep in mind you will hear the difference only if you believe in it and if you can see it.

 

[Ty Wayne]

If you are already corrupt, then consider this:

XPA-2 - 1200 VA transformer, 45,000 uf storage capacitance for 2 channels.

XPA-3 - 850 VA transformer, 60,000 uf storage capacitance for 3 channels.

So you your math, but keep in mind you will hear the difference only if you believe in it and if you can see it.

Oh boy! Just when I thought I was beginning to understand at least a little bit, you got me spinning again! LOL.
I don't understand anything about VA transformers or uf storage capacitance. Anyway you can put this into English for me?

 

[PENG]

Oh boy! Just when I thought I was beginning to understand at least a little bit, you got me spinning again! LOL.
I don't understand anything about VA transformers or uf storage capacitance. Anyway you can put this into English for me?

VA = Voltage (in Volts, or V) X current (in amperes, or A)
uF is microfarad, Farad is the SI unit for capacitance

At a given voltage, transformers with higher VA rating has higher current rating than those with lower VA rating.

Likewise, capacitors with higher uF has higher storage capacity.

If you are interested in learning more, you need to read more.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier
http://sound.westhost.com/power-supplies.htm#transformers

 

[herbu]

I don't understand anything about VA transformers or uf storage capacitance. Anyway you can put this into English for me?

OK. In English... you may not be able to hear any difference with the amp vs w/o the amp. It is considerably less likely you will be able to hear any difference between 1200/850 VA or 45k/60k uf storage capacitance.

You have already made the dubious decision to get an amp, (like most of us). Practically speaking, your only other decision, (besides brand), is 2-channel, 3-channel or 5-channel.

Just so you know, while the XPA-3 is $800, the 5-channel XPA-5 is only $1k. Since so little sound comes from the surrounds, what do you really get for another $200? I'll tell you because I have one. When you power the unit on, the 5 little LEDs on the front panel look REALLY COOL as they light up in sequence!!!

 

[markw]

It's kinda like horsepower. The more the better and the less "weight" it has to drive, the faster the car will go. In this case, the heftier the transformer and the more capacitance and the fewer number of channels, the more power is available for peaks, and the more headroom you've got.

 

[Ty Wayne]

VA = Voltage (in Volts, or V) X current (in amperes, or A)
uF is microfarad, Farad is the SI unit for capacitance

At a given voltage, transformers with higher VA rating has higher current rating than those with lower VA rating.

Likewise, capacitors with higher uF has higher storage capacity.

If you are interested in learning more, you need to read more.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier
http://sound.westhost.com/power-supplies.htm#transformers

Agreed, but it seems that 3/4 of the battle is knowing what to read and where to find it. Thanks for the links. I'll definitely check them out!

OK. In English... you may not be able to hear any difference with the amp vs w/o the amp. It is considerably less likely you will be able to hear any difference between 1200/850 VA or 45k/60k uf storage capacitance.

You have already made the dubious decision to get an amp, (like most of us). Practically speaking, your only other decision, (besides brand), is 2-channel, 3-channel or 5-channel.

Just so you know, while the XPA-3 is $800, the 5-channel XPA-5 is only $1k. Since so little sound comes from the surrounds, what do you really get for another $200? I'll tell you because I have one. When you power the unit on, the 5 little LEDs on the front panel look REALLY COOL as they light up in sequence!!!

LOL about the little LED's! If you're right (and I do not doubt for one second that you are), and I wont be able to tell a difference between 1200/850 VA or 45k/60k uf storage capacitance, then I'll likely go with the xpa-3. Do I need the 3rd center channel? No. But the xpa-2 two channel is $100 more than the xpa-3!

It's kinda like horsepower. The more the better and the less "weight" it has to drive, the faster the car will go. In this case, the heftier the transformer and the more capacitance and the fewer number of channels, the more power is available for peaks, and the more headroom you've got.

Thanks. That makes sense.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Hey TV Wayne, given that you seem to be addicted to Denon's look and the fact that your Ascend 340 SEs are relatively easy to drive, why not try the X3100W first? It has wifi, blue tooth and preouts all for $499 brand new. If I were in the US I would buy one just for fun.

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/bluetooth/avreceiversbt/avrx3100w

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X3100W-Bluetooth-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B00KONGJOO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1441881706&sr=1-1&keywords=denon+x3100w

If, and only if, you still want an amp for whatever reason then add an XPA-2.

https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-2

For $100 more the XPA-2 will get you twice as much headroom as the XPA-3 for the L/R. The AVR should be able to drive the center and surround channels with adequate reserve.

So call me crazy. Call me fickle. Call me whatever you want. But as I've soaked all this in and slept on it (I work nights), Im coming around to your way of thinking PENG. Yes, the xpa-2 is $100 more than the xpa-3. But as you've noted, there's more power to be had there for the all important L & R.

You said "if, and only if, you still want an amp for whatever reason then add an xpa-2". This is what I should do. That is, get a new avr and see if Im happy. If Im still wanting an amp (and Im sure I will), then add one later. Just by upgrading to the Denon X3100W, it should be a decent improvement over my current Pioneer vsx-522K.

The only thing that is bothering me is why the X3100W is only getting 3.5 stars on amazon reviews. Can I ask again, would you put much faith in these reviews??? Also, should I save the $100 by getting a refurb x3100w at accessories4less or am I better off buying new?

 

[PENG]

The only thing that is bothering me is why the X3100W is only getting 3.5 stars on amazon reviews. Can I ask again, would you put much faith in these reviews??? Also, should I save the $100 by getting a refurb x3100w at accessories4less or am I better off buying new?

The 3.5 stars was due to a significant % reports of reliability issues. On the plus side, it did receive 46% 5 stars and 16% 4 stars. There many things that can go wrong in a feature rich AVR such as the X3100W so it may be better to go with a new one that comes with the 3 year Denon warranty. In most cases, if the unit runs trouble free for 90 days or longer, it will last for years.

 

[Ty Wayne]

The 3.5 stars was due to a significant % reports of reliability issues. On the plus side, it did receive 46% 5 stars and 16% 4 stars. There many things that can go wrong in a feature rich AVR such as the X3100W so it may be better to go with a new one that comes with the 3 year Denon warranty. In most cases, if the unit runs trouble free for 90 days or longer, it will last for years.

Yeah, Im like you and figure if it works well for the first few months then I should be good. I've been wondering if accessories4less' "New Leaf" protection plans are reliable. I could get a two year protection plan on a refurb for an additional 28 bucks. Or, do like you said, and spend a 100 extra bucks and get three years from Denon. ???? Ah, so many questions!!!

 

[herbu]

The only thing that is bothering me is why the X3100W is only getting 3.5 stars on amazon reviews. Can I ask again, would you put much faith in these reviews??? Also, should I save the $100 by getting a refurb x3100w at accessories4less or am I better off buying new?

I think most people here would agree Yamaha is the best quality. Don't recall ever seeing people talk about, "ABC doesn't work on my new Yamaha". But keep in mind, if 1/1000 units has some kind of problem, you'll hear about it w/ the interweb today. Denon quality/warranty/service is very good, and they have a couple features important to me, that Yamaha doesn't have. But you can't go wrong with either one.

And for only $100, I would buy new rather than refurbished.

 

[markw]

As for on line reviews, consider that if someone is dissatisfied, they are more likely to take out their anger by venting on line. Satisfied customers do not seem quite that willing to praise their purchase.

you'll often see it here where someone joins and, on their first and only post, will vilify some company because they got a lemon.

Every manufacturer sometimes turns out a clunker. Heck, people praised Panasonic Blu-Ray players but I got a lemon. After three replacements they still couldn't fix it. does that make Panasonic a bad company to buy from?