Receiver upgrade help

[Ty Wayne]

Well, after reading all the reviews I could, the wireless subwoofer thingy seems like a decent option. However, many, many reviews said beware of it playing hell with your wireless internet router and Bluetooth devices. I'd rather not go there if I can help it. They say you can change the channels on your router and that this helps, but I'm very computer illiterate! I'm afraid if I started messing with settings on my router I'd be screwed!!!

So, you guys think I need to go with that 70 dollar blue jean cable??? Yikes!

 

[PENG]

Well, after reading all the reviews I could, the wireless subwoofer thingy seems like a decent option. However, many, many reviews said beware of it playing hell with your wireless internet router and Bluetooth devices. I'd rather not go there if I can help it. They say you can change the channels on your router and that this helps, but I'm very computer illiterate! I'm afraid if I started messing with settings on my router I'd be screwed!!!

So, you guys think I need to go with that 70 dollar blue jean cable??? Yikes!

I think the low cost Media Bridge or monoprice ones are fine.

 

[herbu]

Problem is, 50 feet is going to cost me about $70.00!!!!

If it were me, I'd go w/ the highly rated and recommended BJC.

"Let me think. I've sunk $2k in this subwoofer. Should I go w/ the $70 cable everybody says is as good as it gets, or save $30 and get a cable some people say is good enough? Hmmm..."

 

[PENG]

If it were me, I'd go w/ the highly rated and recommended BJC.

"Let me think. I've sunk $2k in this subwoofer. Should I go w/ the $70 cable everybody says is as good as it gets, or save $30 and get a cable some people say is good enough? Hmmm..."

I would pay more to get a high quality interconnect cable too but if the OP wants to pay less then I thought I should let him know that he won't necessarily have to worry about getting poor sound quality. The Mediabridge that he mentioned, supposedly have decent shielding.

The fact is, subwoofer cables handle the lower frequencies only so the negative effects of inductance and capacitance are of much lesser concerns than interconnects that have to carry full band signals. There is still going to be voltage drop due to the resistance of copper, but for 50 ft, a well designed AVR should be able to handle that with no problem.

 

[Ty Wayne]

If it were me, I'd go w/ the highly rated and recommended BJC.

"Let me think. I've sunk $2k in this subwoofer. Should I go w/ the $70 cable everybody says is as good as it gets, or save $30 and get a cable some people say is good enough? Hmmm..."

Yeah, I totally get what youre saying. Its just that I recall quite a bit of discussion with you guys back when I bought my subwooofer and the general consensus was to not spend a bunch of money on so called "better" cables. Thats what pretty much everyone told me. But if the 70 bucks is truly going to be money well spent for my sub, then I dont mind going there. I just dont want to be had. Thanks as always!

 

[Ty Wayne]

So if I go with the BlueJean LC-1 double shielded cable, is it okay if I run this cable right along side the speaker wire I have going to a rear surround?? Will there be any interference between the speaker wire and the sub cable?

 

[herbu]

the general consensus was to not spend a bunch of money on so called "better" cables.

I think the consensus is not to spend a bunch of money on cables w/ extraordinary claims of being "better", but have no verifiable basis in science.

 

[markw]

I'm using a 25' Metabridge subwoofer cable. I'd have no qualms about going for their 50' id needed and, with my upcoming move, I just might. Of course, it's not a fancy name but the only ones impressed by a fancy name are those who don't know better.

http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-ULTRA-Subwoofer-Cable-Feet/dp/B003P63SP0/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1442577916&sr=8-7&keywords=mediabridge+subwoofer+cable

 

[Ty Wayne]

I think the consensus is not to spend a bunch of money on cables w/ extraordinary claims of being "better", but have no verifiable basis in science.

I'm using a 25' Metabridge subwoofer cable. I'd have no qualms about going for their 50' id needed and, with my upcoming move, I just might. Of course, it's not a fancy name but the only ones impressed by a fancy name are those who don't know better.

http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-ULTRA-Subwoofer-Cable-Feet/dp/B003P63SP0/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1442577916&sr=8-7&keywords=mediabridge+subwoofer+cable

I think I maybe have come up with yet another option. I think I might run my sub cable along the baseboard on the floor. I have a couple of doorways to go across, but I'll use a couple of cord protectors like these:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00170DC3E/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VNQQOP04QKRO&coliid=I3N2Y2ZLNBBGM9&psc=1

By doing this, I can easily use a shorter cable as I would only need 30 feet (28' to be exact). I can get a 35 foot dual shielded mediabridge for only $15.00 (I wish I could find a 30 foot mediabridge but I cant). Or, even if I went with a blue jean LC-1, a 30 foot cable would cost me about $50.00 instead of the $70.00 for a 50 foot one.

Personally, if Mark is having no problems with a 25' cable, I'll probably go with a 35' mediabridge. $15.00 sounds pretty good to me. If it don't work out, well, I've wasted 15.00.

I really don't want to run the cable along the baseboards, but the attic would be a real chore. Not sure I could even do it. The problem is that the place I'm wanting to put the sub is on an outside wall. Therefore, the attic space here is going to be down towards the eve of the roof which would be a VERY tight space in the attic! The floor seems like the best option????

 

[herbu]

I think I maybe have come up with yet another option. I think I might run my sub cable along the baseboard on the floor. I have a couple of doorways to go across, but I'll use a couple of cord protectors

Can you drill holes in the floor and go thru the crawlspace or basement? Easy. I did.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Can you drill holes in the floor and go thru the crawlspace or basement? Easy. I did.

Yeah I read somewhere else where you said that you had done this and a critter or snake or something crawled in through your hole, LOL. Its a good idea if you have a pier and beam (or basement), but I got a slab, so no such luck here. Seems I'm out of options. I'd run it through the attic if I could but I've spent a considerable amount of time in my attic (I've ran satellite cable, reinsulated the attic, and installed new duct work in the past) and I think its gonna be a no go.

It shouldn't be too big of a deal going across the doorways I have to go across using the floor cord protector. They are lightly used doorways (a closet and a bathroom) so I hope it will work out okay?

 

[Ty Wayne]

Hey guys. Just wanted to let you know that I ended up going with the $15.00, 35 foot Mediabridge cable for my sub. I also got the UT Wire floor cord protector's that I linked in a previous comment to go across a couple of doorways. The cord protector is soft enough to cut with some good scissors or a utility knife, yet strong enough to protect my cable from getting smashed. I'd recommend them to anyone that has limited options like myself for running wire/cable across the room.

I'm proud to say that I've successfully relocated my sub to the opposite side of the room than it was previously, and it sounds great. Much improved bass for the whole room, and especially the MLP! I thank all of you for your help and suggestions.

Also on the way are a pair of Ascend TP-24 stands for my 340 mains. I ordered them B-stock and saved some money. Cant wait to get them. Not sure why I've waited so long?

Should be upgrading the AVR in a few months. Still a bit undecided, but I hope to be able to get the same bargain (or better) on the Denon X4100W that's available now. Time will tell!

 

[Ty Wayne]

Had no intention of hijacking that other guys thread. My bad! I should've just continued here from the beginning, but as usual, one question led to another. Anyhoo......

Peng, and others, do you think going with a refurb 4520CI for 800.00 would be better than getting a new X4100 for 750.00? This is really whats troubling me right now.

EVEN IF I dont have good luck with the internet options that have been suggested for the 4520CI, it doesnt make a huge difference. I dont HAVE TO HAVE internet to the AVR. It was more for the old lady if/when she wanted to use airplay. But she probably wouldnt even use it that much. Me, I'd probably never use it as I use my ps4 for streaming spotify or playing CD's.

I simply want to upgrade the quality of my AVR, and possibly add an ext. amp later if I cant get rid of that itch.

Not looking to spend over a grand for an AVR.

My deal is should I get the better 4520, though its a refurb, or get the X4100 new? Both at about the same price. Wifi would be nice, but its not a deal breaker as far as Im concerned.

 

[PENG]

I thought the $800 4520 was for a new one. IMO is it better to get the new X4100W, it has enough power for your speakers assuming your room is not too big, you sit within 10 to 12 ft from the centre speaker and you don't listen at cinema level loud. Or you can tolerate the itch for another year and then get the X6200W for under 1K.

 

[Ty Wayne]

I thought the $800 4520 was for a new one. IMO is it better to get the new X4100W, it has enough power for your speakers assuming your room is not too big, you sit within 10 to 12 ft from the centre speaker and you don't listen at cinema level loud. Or you can tolerate the itch for another year and then get the X6200W for under 1K.

Yeah, I felt like it would be better to go with the new x4100 over the refurb 4520 too. Glad you said that. Makes me feel better.

Yes, I have medium sized room and sit within 12 ft from center. I often do like to listen loud, but my current pioneer can push my ascends pretty decently, I just want a little more. And yes, I know "a little more" = "quite a bit more power". I get the whole "3db = twice the power thing". Thats why I thought I'd add an xpa-2 later on for 2ch music.

Regarding the x6200, I havent looked at this avr until you mentioned it. I'll keep it in mind, though I regret to say that no way can I wait another year to upgrade the avr! LOL. I've already been waiting a year to upgrade the electronics, so I got to pull the trigger asap.

Looks like the x4100 it is! Thx for the help.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Transaction complete on a new x4100! Will give an update once I receive it and get it going. Actually, I'll likely be back with some questions when Im setting it up.

Thanks again!

 

[PENG]

Transaction complete on a new x4100! Will give an update once I receive it and get it going. Actually, I'll likely be back with some questions when Im setting it up.

Thanks again!

Great choice, and based on the review of the 3312CI that I believe has the same power supply and amp section specs, I doubt you will need an amp.

"This graph shows that the AVR-3312CI’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 122.9 watts and 1 percent distortion at 143.3 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 202.0 watts and 1 percent distortion at 225.5 watts.
Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-3312ci-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures#ZpIwCGSCBI6KE57v.99"

The 4100 should have enough power, with ample reserve, for your Ascend speakers. But if you "want" an amp, go for it. In that case, need has nothing to do with it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, I would never buy a refurbished complex component like an AVR.

I would have taken the brand new X4100 as well.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Great choice, and based on the review of the 3312CI that I believe has the same power supply and amp section specs, I doubt you will need an amp.

"This graph shows that the AVR-3312CI’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 122.9 watts and 1 percent distortion at 143.3 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 202.0 watts and 1 percent distortion at 225.5 watts.
Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-3312ci-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures#ZpIwCGSCBI6KE57v.99"

The 4100 should have enough power, with ample reserve, for your Ascend speakers. But if you "want" an amp, go for it. In that case, need has nothing to do with it.

Awesome! Im sure hoping I'll notice a difference from my current Pioneer. I have a little more money burning a hole in my pocket and have been really tempted to pull the trigger on a xpa-2 this week before the sale ends. But Im going to just wait and see for now.

By the way, I have a question regarding an external amp. I've done some searching on the web but I cant really find a good answer that satisfies my curiosity. Maybe you or someone else can explain or point me to information to help me understand?

My Ascend 340 SE mains are rated for 240 watts maximum continuous power, and short term peaks of 400 watts. The xpa-2 is rated at 300 watts RMS per channel @ 8 ohm, which is 60 watts more than what my speakers are rated for. So my question is, would the xpa-2 be too much for my speakers? Or would it only be too much if I were to crank the gain all the way up on the AVR? Would it not be better to go with something like the xpa-3 (which is 200 watts @ 8 ohm) so that I wouldnt get over that 240 watts maximum continuous power? I simply dont understand how this works?

 

[PENG]

Awesome! Im sure hoping I'll notice a difference from my current Pioneer. I have a little more money burning a hole in my pocket and have been really tempted to pull the trigger on a xpa-2 this week before the sale ends. But Im going to just wait and see for now.

I am quite sure you will hear improvements going from that little Pioneer to a respectable mid range Denon. In pure direct mode I think the Denon will do better because of the presumably better analog circuits, DACs and stronger power supply for better dynamics.

For digital, the Denon has more up to date decoders, processors and Audyssey Platinum so again it will be a new experience for you watching the latest Blu ray movie in DTS-MA MSTR.

My Ascend 340 SE mains are rated for 240 watts maximum continuous power, and short term peaks of 400 watts. The xpa-2 is rated at 300 watts RMS per channel @ 8 ohm, which is 60 watts more than what my speakers are rated for. So my question is, would the xpa-2 be too much for my speakers? Or would it only be too much if I were to crank the gain all the way up on the AVR? Would it not be better to go with something like the xpa-3 (which is 200 watts @ 8 ohm) so that I wouldnt get over that 240 watts maximum continuous power? I simply dont understand how this works?

The following links should help you understand a little more about how thing work.

http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/receivers-vs-separates
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-sound-of-an-amplifier
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/2013322spl-calculator/
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/tools/calculators

I highly recommend you pick one of those on line calculators and punch in the numbers that apply to your equipment and listening environment to find out how much power you need to achieve the THX standard of 85 dB SPL + 20 dB headroom for the maxim peaks from your sitting position. You will most likely find that the X4100W has more than enough power already. Note that if you pick the Crown audio one, it does not factor in room gain you the results will tend to be over stating the power need by several dBs.

As far as whether the XPA-2 is too much for your speakers, the answer can be yes or no. In terms of having the power reserve that will not be used, the answer is yes you will have too much power. If the concern is damage to the speakers, the answer would be no because you are the one in control not the amplifier. If you crank it all the way up you will damage those speakers, but you can do the same with the XPA-3 or XPA-5 as well. Even the denon can cause damage to the speakers if allowed to clip, but hopefully before it reaches that point the protective circuit would shut the unit down. I am sure your ears/brain/hands coordination should be more reliable than the protective circuit.