Receiver without HDCP 2.2 - 4k workaround? ARC?

[AParsh]

Hello,
As i'm sure a lot of you know, there is a ton of (conflicting/incomplete) information out there about watching 4k, with or without hdcp 2.2 as well as other even more intensive things like HDR and 8 vs 10 vs 12 bit panels.


If i buy a 4k TV that DOES have HDCP 2.2, and say a device like the nvidia shield that streams 4k netflix with HDCP 2.2 as well, can i connect the TV directly via HDMI from HDCP 2.2 to the Shield, and then have another HDMI connect the ARC channel of the TV to the receiver, so that I can get the 4k Picture and still take advantage of my nice 5.2 surround sound system? Or do i need to use a optical/toslink cable? Or am i looking at something that is not possible?

Set up:
-JVC DM65USR 65" LED 4k w/ 4x HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 ports and ARC
http://www.amazon.com/JVC-DM65USR-65-Inch-Ultra-120Hz/dp/B00PG8W1MQ
-Nvidia Shield (media player) w/ HDMI 2.0./HDCP 2.2 (netflix 4k ready)
http://www.amazon.com/NVIDIA-SHIELD/dp/B00U33Q940/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1437943042&sr=1-1&keywords=nvidia+shield
-Denon AVR-X4000 Receiver
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X4000-7-2-Channel-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B00CALM17C/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1437943137&sr=1-1&keywords=denon+avr-x400

Not that it matters, but the speaker setup is 2x HSU Research VTF-15H MK2 Subs, 2x Ascend CMT-340SE L/R, 1x Ascend CMT-340SE Center, 2x Ascend CBM-170SE surrounds.

 

[agarwalro]

If i buy a 4k TV that DOES have HDCP 2.2, and say a device like the nvidia shield that streams 4k netflix with HDCP 2.2 as well, can i connect the TV directly via HDMI from HDCP 2.2 to the Shield, and then have another HDMI connect the ARC channel of the TV to the receiver, so that I can get the 4k Picture and still take advantage of my nice 5.2 surround sound system?

HDMI ARC is your best audio quality option.

 

[AParsh]

HDMI ARC is your best audio quality option.

Thanks for the reply Agarwalro. The reply was a big vague though - can you confirm you have had success doing something like this? Or that it will even work?

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the reply Agarwalro. The reply was a big vague though - can you confirm you have had success doing something like this? Or that it will even work?

You need to understand that the ARC is not a full digital audio bandwidth channel like a regular HDMI input. The ARC is SPDIF the same as Toslink and RCA, with the same limitations and therefore does not support multi channel loss less audio.

 

[AParsh]

You need to understand that the ARC is not a full digital audio bandwidth channel like a regular HDMI input. The ARC is SPDIF the same as Toslink and RCA, with the same limitations and therefore does not support multi channel loss less audio.

I feel like so far both people that have replied did not read the post.

 

[TLS Guy]

I feel like so far both people that have replied did not read the post.

I don't see what we failed to understand.

The picture should be fine. If the Nividia and TV are HDCP 2.2 and 4K you should get a picture.

The ARC HDMI return is the same as Toslink and RCA coax digital. The only difference is that you need only one cable and not two. So depending on your TV you will get two channel audio only or a choice of two channel plus surround in the lossy codecs.

Since the audio return is standard SPDIF it will not support DTS Master HD or Dolby True HD.

However Netflix stream in Dolby Digital Plus, which is a lossy codec. Your receiver needs to be new enough that it can decode Dolby Digital plus.

If we have misunderstood your post please enlighten us. Your original post contains sparse information about the capabilities of your audio side. If your receiver is new enough to have ARC then it likely has the Dolby digital plus codec.

Your comments about will I need Toslink show you do not understand the problems and limitations of the digital audio out options of TVs.

 

[sawzalot]

I don't see how that could work considering you would have to assign one hdmi to your source which would probably be hdmi #2 , hdmi #1 would be the audio return channel as it is on my sammy and therefore be bypassed by #2 's assignment , I don't think it would be possible to utilize both at the same time.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't see how that could work considering you would have to assign one hdmi to your source which would probably be hdmi #2 , hdmi #1 would be the audio return channel as it is on my sammy and therefore be bypassed by #2 's assignment , I don't think it would be possible to utilize both at the same time.

That is a really good point and check mate for using ARC under those circumstances. The ARC us designed to get audio to the receiver or sound bar, from the Smart TV options.

However he could still use Toslink I think, but it might be prohibited to output audio other than 2 channel from an HDMI source, but I don't think it is. However flags are allowed to allow only 2 channel audio out from a given source. He needs to look at his TV manual.

 

[markw]

Yes, I read your post. I also read all the other posts.

As far as I can see, the best you can do is this:

1) run HDMI directly from your source component directly to the TV for video.

2) Run toslink or digital coax directly from your source to your receiver.

Use the TV to select your video and your receiver to select the audio.

The audio will be 5.1, or whatever the source material offers but it will only be standard DD or DTS. Those two connections cannot pass the newer hi-rez audio that Blu-Ray offers. That can only be passed via HDMI.

 

[AParsh]

I don't see what we failed to understand.

The picture should be fine. If the Nividia and TV are HDCP 2.2 and 4K you should get a picture.

The ARC HDMI return is the same as Toslink and RCA coax digital. The only difference is that you need only one cable and not two. So depending on your TV you will get two channel audio only or a choice of two channel plus surround in the lossy codecs.

Since the audio return is standard SPDIF it will not support DTS Master HD or Dolby True HD.

However Netflix stream in Dolby Digital Plus, which is a lossy codec. Your receiver needs to be new enough that it can decode Dolby Digital plus.

If we have misunderstood your post please enlighten us. Your original post contains sparse information about the capabilities of your audio side. If your receiver is new enough to have ARC then it likely has the Dolby digital plus codec.

Your comments about will I need Toslink show you do not understand the problems and limitations of the digital audio out options of TVs.

Thank you for explaining this.
So I will be able to get the audio by way of ARC or Toslink, but it will be either 2ch or to take advantage of my 5.2 i'll have ot use a crappy quality surround codec.

If i want to get top quality audio i would need to have a receiver that supports HDCP 2.2 it seems. This should be worth investing in once UHD Blu-ray is released, but I'm thinking for now, with the limited 4k content available, it's not worth paying top dollar for the option.

Thanks again.

 

[AParsh]

Yes, I read your post. I also read all the other posts.

As far as I can see, the best you can do is this:

1) run HDMI directly from your source component directly to the TV for video.

2) Run toslink or digital coax directly from your source to your receiver.

Use the TV to select your video and your receiver to select the audio.

The audio will be 5.1, or whatever the source material offers but it will only be standard DD or DTS. Those two connections cannot pass the newer hi-rez audio that Blu-Ray offers. That can only be passed via HDMI.

Thanks Mark.