Dolby Atmos For Home Theater Explained

[MidnightSensi2]

To be fair, hard floors are bad for any kind of audio setup, as they are the first and worst reflection point. If you are interested in good sound, the floor needs to be treated. Tile floors are the worst for acoustics.

Absolutely. However, there are dramatic diminishing returns beyond a properly setup 5.1 system. And, with a typical 5.1 setup the speakers are pointed toward the listening position and there is a fair amount of direct sound, even if the room acoustics cause problems. Firing speakers against varying surfaces (i.e. drywall versus concrete) essentially turns the ceiling into your speaker. Only, your ceiling is not designed to faithfully reproduce sound, so, reflected sound off of it tends to sound like crap. Hence, we treat, or try to keep those reflection points under control, especially with respect to the ratio of direct sound versus reflected at the listening position.

Systems like Audyssey were intelligent in that they were aimed at the rooms WITH the untreated surfaces and less than ideal geometry. The idea was to make those rooms sound their best. There are limitations, but, overall, a lot of Audioholics have had success with Audyssey in these applications. In my personal experience, Audyssey in a dedicated room wasn't much of a feature - where it really helped was in 'regular rooms.' And that's where Atmos Home makes me scratch my head.

That said, without having tried Home Atmos I'd prefer to reserve judgement, but the giant panda in the living room is still there: this just wreaks of marketing jazz and new buzzwords. More speakers! "Dolby Enabled!" heh, come'on.

If Atmos Home rocks, trust that I'll be a buyer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Absolutely. However, there are dramatic diminishing returns beyond a properly setup 5.1 system. And, with a typical 5.1 setup the speakers are pointed toward the listening position and there is a fair amount of direct sound, even if the room acoustics cause problems. Firing speakers against varying surfaces (i.e. drywall versus concrete) essentially turns the ceiling into your speaker. Only, your ceiling is not designed to faithfully reproduce sound, so, reflected sound off of it tends to sound like crap. Hence, we treat, or try to keep those reflection points under control, especially with respect to the ratio of direct sound versus reflected at the listening position.

Systems like Audyssey were intelligent in that they were aimed at the rooms WITH the untreated surfaces and less than ideal geometry. The idea was to make those rooms sound their best. There are limitations, but, overall, a lot of Audioholics have had success with Audyssey in these applications. In my personal experience, Audyssey in a dedicated room wasn't much of a feature - where it really helped was in 'regular rooms.' And that's where Atmos Home makes me scratch my head.

That said, without having tried Home Atmos I'd prefer to reserve judgement, but the giant panda in the living room is still there: this just wreaks of marketing jazz and new buzzwords. More speakers! "Dolby Enabled!" heh, come'on.

If Atmos Home rocks, trust that I'll be a buyer.

I think people with 7.1 and 9.1+ systems will have the proclivity for ATMOS.

People who still have 5.1 will not.

If all AVRs have ATMOS, we won't have a choice. It would just be another codec. We would just still use 5.1 regardless and not have a care in the world.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

Hugo himself appears to represent a significant chunk.

Haha, he mentioned the supplement industry parallel. That was probably the biggest slam in the whole video haha. The bodybuilding supplement industry has as much snake oil as fancy cables do in audio. hehe.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I think people with 7.1 and 9.1+ systems will have the proclivity for ATMOS.

People who still have 5.1 will not.

If all AVRs have ATMOS, we won't have a choice. It would just be another codec. We would just still use 5.1 regardless and not have a care in the world.

Agreed. Although, if it was an actual improvement, wouldn't you consider it? (budget allowing, etc.)

I did try 7.1 in my theater but ultimately went back to 5.1 (if my room was a little longer and had two rows, it might have made more sense). I helped a friend recently setup a 7.1 system and the extra two channels were an improvement in his large living room with kinda wonky seating. So, just depends.

I do think the concept is neat, the idea of three axis panning and cross-compatibility. Probably the latter would be what actually makes this get adopted.

 

[RichB]

If I were a HT writer I would title a article: Atmos is from Venus, 4K is from Mars

How does it make sense to introduce Atmos Gen-1 that is completely reliant on ceiling channels in new AVRs that do not support HDCP 2.2.

Traditional systems may benefit from Home Atmos enhancements to use actual speaker placement, mapping Atmos and remapping standard soundtracks
A Gen-2 Home Atmos includes this feature and HDCP 2.2 could be announced at CES 2015 and those that bought AVRs from Atmos in 2014 will not be pleased

The logical conclusion from an informed consumer, is to wait a until next year.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Agreed. Although, if it was an actual improvement, wouldn't you consider it? (budget allowing, etc.)

I did try 7.1 in my theater but ultimately went back to 5.1 (if my room was a little longer and had two rows, it might have made more sense). I helped a friend recently setup a 7.1 system and the extra two channels were an improvement in his large living room with kinda wonky seating. So, just depends.

I do think the concept is neat, the idea of three axis panning and cross-compatibility. Probably the latter would be what actually makes this get adopted.

The only thing it could improve is the surround effects. I care about the surround effects, but just not nearly enough as I care about the front 3 channels and subwoofers.

My main focus is in the screen and sound in FRONT of me, just like in REAL LIFE. The surround sound effects is just there to make the sound a little more enveloping.

For example, when you are talking to someone (you like ) in FRONT of you, how much do you care about the sound from BEHIND you?

So even if ATMOS did improve precise localization of the surround effects BEHIND me, I just don't really care enough.

 

[gene]

If I were a HT writer I would title a article: Atmos is from Venus, 4K is from Mars

How does it make sense to introduce Atmos Gen-1 that is completely reliant on ceiling channels in new AVRs that do not support HDCP 2.2.

Traditional systems may benefit from Home Atmos enhancements to use actual speaker placement, mapping Atmos and remapping standard soundtracks
A Gen-2 Home Atmos includes this feature and HDCP 2.2 could be announced at CES 2015 and those that bought AVRs from Atmos in 2014 will not be pleased

The logical conclusion from an informed consumer, is to wait a until next year.

- Rich

Yea but we have to watch what we say. A lot of audio folks and especially manufacturers don't have much of a sense of humor. This industry can't handle much parody let alone criticism.

 

[gene]

The only thing it could improve is the surround effects. I care about the surround effects, but just not nearly enough as I care about the front 3 channels and subwoofers.

My main focus is in the screen and sound in FRONT of me, just like in REAL LIFE. The surround sound effects is just there to make the sound a little more enveloping.

For example, when you are talking to someone (you like ) in FRONT of you, how much do you care about the sound from BEHIND you?

So even if ATMOS did improve precise localization of the surround effects BEHIND me, I just don't really care enough.

It's a true tragedy when people are willing to sacrifice a quality 5.1 speaker layout in favor of a mediocre 7/9/11.1 layout. If you've got solid, high dynamic fronts, the soundstage they will throw off will usually trump any magic "Atmos ready" speaker firing a little driver up at the ceiling but hey these days people care more about wow effects than quality of sound for music. Quantity over quality usually wins.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

We will be holding an open house here at Pioneer in Long Beach at the end of July (Final date is not decided yet) to allow people to come in and listen to a complete Atmos system with the Dolby enabled speakers. Anyone in the local area is welcome to come by... I will post details once we figure out an exact date. I will also arrange for our head speaker Engineer (Andrew Jones) to speak with Gene and explain the technical background for the top firing drivers (It is not just another speaker sitting on top of the cabinet).

Hi Chris,

The LBC isn't quite in my back yard, but I'm a little closer than Gene in FL. If you ever creep north with the demo, say to Portland or Seattle, please let me know.

Thanks,
Marshall

 

[cpp]

I think people with 7.1 and 9.1+ systems will have the proclivity for ATMOS.

People who still have 5.1 will not.

If all AVRs have ATMOS, we won't have a choice. It would just be another codec. We would just still use 5.1 regardless and not have a care in the world.

pro·cliv·i·ty

noun \prō-ˈkli-və-tē\ : a strong natural liking for something that is usually bad : a tendency to do something that is usually bad




Oh , so these people that have 7.1 and 9.1 + systems are in your opinion 'doing bad things' ?


I see ATMOS ending up like 3D TV. Unless the technology and content is out there at a fair price to support the product offering it's not going to survive for home use, unless a consumer spends a lot of money to equip a dedicated room with the necessary components and music/movies .

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

pro·cliv·i·ty

noun \prō-ˈkli-və-tē\ : a strong natural liking for something that is usually bad : a tendency to do something that is usually bad

Oh , so these people that have 7.1 and 9.1 + systems are in your opinion 'doing bad things' ?

I see ATMOS ending up like 3D TV. Unless the technology and content is out there at a fair price to support the product offering it's not going to survive for home use, unless a consumer spends a lot of money to equip a dedicated room with the necessary components and music/movies .

"an inclination or predisposition toward something"

Well, it depends on the context.

Okay, perhaps I should have said "tendency" or "affinity".

 

[agarwalro]

Scott Wilkinson of Home Theater Geeks interviewed Andrew Jones. They cover Atmos and Pioneer's Atmos Enabled speaker line in great detail.

 

[cpp]

"an inclination or predisposition toward something"

Well, it depends on the context.

Okay, perhaps I should have said "tendency" or "affinity".

Bingo , now get some pop corn and watch the movie noted by agarwalro , it might be educational or just a sales pitch

 

[RichB]

Bingo , now get some pop corn and watch the movie noted by agarwalro , it might be educational or just a sales pitch

I watched the video last night. The speakers look to be well made and a great deal.
The Pioneer speakers are in a separate cabinet, use the same coaxial driver, similar crossovers so timber matching coming off the driver should not be a problem.
Other than timber matching, the AH video looks spot on; A well designed, timber matched speaker firing upward delivering a discrete channel.

I believe Mr. Jones said something to the effect that he preferred top firing speakers in the demo and they worked "surprisingly well".

Scott used the user comments coming in to ask the more difficult questions. The speakers are "Small" perhaps going down to 80Hz and the crossovers in the AVR are going to send bass to the mains. I do not know if it will sound as if the Vogon's are passing over
Also notable, this is Pioneer's "first effort"

My Salons have rear firing tweeters and I had to set them at different levels because on one the left side there is a window and an 8 foot ceiling sloping up.
On the right, there is bookcase and twelve foot ceilings. There is no doubt that 6K crossed tweeter is bouncing of the wall and ceiling and does adds ambience.
However, if I had Salon 2's, I suspect I would not miss them, at all

The desire for an effect will definitely be achieved

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Bingo , now get some pop corn and watch the movie noted by agarwalro , it might be educational or just a sales pitch

It goes back to preference - what you care and don't care about.

I care about bass, thus, I spend money on subs, speakers, and processor with sub EQ/DEQ.

I care about the primary front 3 channels.

I like a little ambience behind me, but I don't care that much about precise localization of the secondary sound behind me.

Just like I don't care about seeing 3D videos.

It's simply about personal preference - what you care and don't care about.

Now beyond this personal preference is the technical aspect of ATMOS - does it work? Is the sound pinpoint accurate BEHIND you?

Let's just assume ATMOS works 100%.

Let's think about that. First, is there anything more accurate than the sound we hear in REAL LIFE? No. Of course, not. Close, though.

When we close our eyes, how accurate can we pinpoint the sound BEHIND us in real life?

Can we tell that the sound is exactly 6 meters behind, 3 meters to the rear left, and 4 meters up? Of course, not. Even in real life, we can only tell that the sound is either far or near, left or right.

Our ears are made to localize the sound most accurately in FRONT of us. We can localize the sound behind us, but it is never going to be as accurate as the sound in FRONT of us, especially if the distance of the sound behind us is farther away.

So do we really CARE that much about the localization of sound behind us?

So it is exactly like 3D video to me. Sure, it's "cool" to experience once or twice. But the sound behind us, no matter how many speakers we have and how accurate it approximates real life, will NEVER be the salient point in movies because it is NEVER the salient point in REAL LIFE.

 

[gene]

Hmm I may have to rethink my theories on audio cables after watching this very "informative" interview with head Monster

[video=youtube_share;WyzuGWaSDzQ]http://youtu.be/WyzuGWaSDzQ[/video]

 

[gene]

I watched the video last night. The speakers look to be well made and a great deal.
The Pioneer speakers are in a separate cabinet, use the same coaxial driver, similar crossovers so timber matching coming off the driver should not be a problem.
Other than timber matching, the AH video looks spot on; A well designed, timber matched speaker firing upward delivering a discrete channel.

I believe Mr. Jones said something to the effect that he preferred top firing speakers in the demo and they worked "surprisingly well".

Scott used the user comments coming in to ask the more difficult questions. The speakers are "Small" perhaps going down to 80Hz and the crossovers in the AVR are going to send bass to the mains. I do not know if it will sound as if the Vogon's are passing over
Also notable, this is Pioneer's "first effort"

My Salons have rear firing tweeters and I had to set them at different levels because on one the left side there is a window and an 8 foot ceiling sloping up.
On the right, there is bookcase and twelve foot ceilings. There is no doubt that 6K crossed tweeter is bouncing of the wall and ceiling and does adds ambience.
However, if I had Salon 2's, I suspect I would not miss them, at all

The desire for an effect will definitely be achieved

- Rich

The AJ speakers look incredibly well made for the price. Atmos driver aside, I suspect these are gonna rock!

Notice the Atmos driver is BW limited to 180Hz. Sound is very omnidirectional up to about 400Hz so the results will be interesting to say the least. Again I pose the question of how accurately the listener will be able to localize the height effects and if they will able to do so as the director originally intended? Also I can't determine if the Atmos drivers are angled in the Pioneer speakers so they can project like the diagrams show. I asked this question to Chris/Andrew and got no reply. I guess we will have to measure this when the samples come in.

Personally I'd like to see manufacturers offer an on-wall version of such a surround speaker as most people cannot accommodate a bookshelf on stands in the rear. Also placing a speaker on stands in the rear for the surround channels often make them too localizable b/c they are so close to the listening area and at ear height. Getting them up off the floor as we've been doing with 5.1 is a better solution IMO. Not to mention it will bring the Atmos driver closer to the ceiling to make it more effective at bouncing the sound and also making the omnidirectional effects below 400Hz less noticeable.

While we're at it, why not do an on-wall speaker with Atmos capability so it can be used as a front effect and Atmos speaker all in one? Now you can enjoy PLIIz and Atmos all off one speaker!

 

[cpp]

It goes back to preference - what you care and don't care about.

I care about bass, thus, I spend money on subs, speakers, and processor with sub EQ/DEQ.

I care about the primary front 3 channels.

I like a little ambience behind me, but I don't care that much about precise localization of the secondary sound behind me.

Just like I don't care about seeing 3D videos.

It's simply about personal preference - what you care and don't care about.

Now beyond this personal preference is the technical aspect of ATMOS - does it work? Is the sound pinpoint accurate BEHIND you?

Let's just assume ATMOS works 100%.

Let's think about that. First, is there anything more accurate than the sound we hear in REAL LIFE? No. Of course, not. Close, though.

When we close our eyes, how accurate can we pinpoint the sound BEHIND us in real life?

Can we tell that the sound is exactly 6 meters behind, 3 meters to the rear left, and 4 meters up? Of course, not. Even in real life, we can only tell that the sound is either far or near, left or right.

Our ears are made to localize the sound most accurately in FRONT of us. We can localize the sound behind us, but it is never going to be as accurate as the sound in FRONT of us, especially if the distance of the sound behind us is farther away.

So do we really CARE that much about the localization of sound behind us?

So it is exactly like 3D video to me. Sure, it's "cool" to experience once or twice. But the sound behind us, no matter how many speakers we have and how accurate it approximates real life, will NEVER be the salient point in movies because it is NEVER the salient point in REAL LIFE.

Oh I think Atmos will work, people need to actually go hear for themselves in a movie theater that actually has it. I've been to two and they are few in Fl Gene.
Regal Cinemas Park Place Stadium, Pinellas Park and AMC Disney Lake Buena Vista

From what I heard, dimensionality is all there. It works but my HT area is nothing like the size of a Cinema with the space and scope to pull off Atmos.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh I think Atmos will work, people need to actually go hear for themselves in a movie theater that actually has it. I've been to two and they are few in Fl Gene.
Regal Cinemas Park Place Stadium, Pinellas Park and AMC Disney Lake Buena Vista

From what I heard, dimensionality is all there. It works but my HT area is nothing like the size of a Cinema with the space and scope to pull off Atmos.

Yeah. Even if it works perfectly, the real question is, do people care.

The most important channel of all is the center channel. That is the one channel we hear people complain the most.

The other thing people complain about is the lack of bass in some systems (commercial and home).

So people seem to care a lot about having clearer more intelligible dialogue channel and better bass.

Do people care as much about cooler surround effects to spend more money on?

So I think the issue is not so much whether ATMOS works, but whether people care enough about better surround effects.

For example, if people don't care for better bass, they won't buy better subs, etc.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yeah. Even if it works perfectly, the real question is, do people care.

Some do.
But, I guess, the marketplace needs more.

The other thing people complain about is the lack of bass in some systems (commercial and home).

That may be the mastering, no?

Do people care as much about cooler surround effects to spend more money on?

Some do. I do if affordable and doable without a house remodel being involved.
That would just not happen.