Dolby Atmos For Home Theater Explained

[Walkamo]

Could you elaborate?

That's exactly what it seems like to me. It may even do a better job and more cost effective with one speaker atop firing upward.

And I don't think Gene or anyone is utterly dismissing ATMOS or the Pioneer speakers. We are just skeptical and we are just sharing our opinions.[/QUOTE

Hi DefTechGuy,

All I am asking is for people to at least listen to an Atmos enabled loudspeaker before they just dismiss it. Comments like the one below from Gene is what I have an issue with.

AudioholicsLIVE16 hours ago

"No but you don't need to necessarily hear a product that is inherently flawed based on provable physics to know something is not a good idea"

That type of comment does not do anyone any good...

We will be holding an open house here at Pioneer in Long Beach at the end of July (Final date is not decided yet) to allow people to come in and listen to a complete Atmos system with the Dolby enabled speakers. Anyone in the local area is welcome to come by... I will post details once we figure out an exact date. I will also arrange for our head speaker Engineer (Andrew Jones) to speak with Gene and explain the technical background for the top firing drivers (It is not just another speaker sitting on top of the cabinet).

The good news is that everyone is talking about surround sound again.

Not trying to start an argument. Just want everyone to give this new tech a chance before making any decisions yet.

Thanks,

Chris Walker

 

[Walkamo]

Hi Gene,

I wish we could have replied to your original email regarding Atmos, however we were under NDA and could not comment.

Also, I am not trying to be confrontational. It is just difficult to read about all of the judgments being made about the top firing driver when I know that it works extremely well. As soon as I have mass production product we will get you something.....

The last note I would say is that there is alot of misinformation regarding Atmos and I believe Dolby needs to do a better job at educating everyone on the technology.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

 

[RichB]

Dolby enabled speakers

This term rubs me the wrong way. My speakers are not Dolby enabled.

I have a personal interest in accuracy and there is a difference between "liking the effect" and accuracy.
If Dolby keeps you folks in NDA mode, offers press releases, they and you cannot expect the "community" to remain silent because we do not have all the facts.

Marketing has begun so claims bear scrutiny.

- Rich

 

[gene]

Hi Gene,

I wish we could have replied to your original email regarding Atmos, however we were under NDA and could not comment.

Also, I am not trying to be confrontational. It is just difficult to read about all of the judgments being made about the top firing driver when I know that it works extremely well. As soon as I have mass production product we will get you something.....

The last note I would say is that there is alot of misinformation regarding Atmos and I believe Dolby needs to do a better job at educating everyone on the technology.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

Fair enough Chris. As you have seen in the past, we always fairly review your products and look forward to doing so with these new speakers.

I did reach out several times to Dolby regarding our initial articles and received no replies so we go with the info that is available to the public in such cases. Everyone seems to be so worried about NDA's and being so formal and calculated in their responses forgetting that we are just dealing with audio, not national security. The only time I received a response from Dolby was when they realized how much traction our articles and new video got online

I think people get a little bent out of shape for us sharing our initial opinion in a video interview format on our Youtube channel while also trying to add some humor to an otherwise dry topic. Hugo and I keep that format very informal and unscripted and it serves the purpose well for that audience. Meanwhile we dig deeper into our actual tech articles on this site.

We aren't Yesman like most of the AV Magazines are in this industry. Proof is in the pudding and until I can hear and measure this for myself, I will remain a skeptic.

I look forward to shooting more Atmos videos based on real world usage of product in-house once it becomes available.

 

[gene]

This term rubs me the wrong way. My speakers are not Dolby enabled.

I have a personal interest in accuracy and there is a difference between "liking the effect" and accuracy.
If Dolby keeps you folks in NDA mode, offers press releases, they and you cannot expect the "community" to remain silent because we do not have all the facts.

Marketing has begun so claims bear scrutiny.

- Rich

A very valid point since the original mixes are being done for the Cinema which uses downfiring ceiling mounted speakers for the height channels providing much more direct sound to the listening area. It's unclear how this will translate into the home theater with "Atmos speakers" containing upfiring drivers relying on mostly bandwidth limited reflected sound to arrive at the listener. There is only so much that can be done with DSP to simulate what the director or sound engineer originally intended.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This term rubs me the wrong way. My speakers are not Dolby enabled.

I have a personal interest in accuracy and there is a difference between "liking the effect" and accuracy.
If Dolby keeps you folks in NDA mode, offers press releases, they and you cannot expect the "community" to remain silent because we do not have all the facts.

Marketing has begun so claims bear scrutiny.

- Rich

Dear Rich,

I'm sorry, but your Revel Salons are Dolby ATMOS disabled.

There is no way your Revel Salon speakers can play back a Dolby ATMOS soundtrack. It just won't sound any darn good.

I'm sorry, but you'll just have to buy new Dolby ATMOS enabled speakers.

 

[RichB]

Dear Rich,

I'm sorry, but your Revel Salons are Dolby ATMOS disabled.

There is no way your Revel Salon speakers can play back a Dolby ATMOS soundtrack. It just won't sound any darn good.

I'm sorry, but you'll just have to buy new Dolby ATMOS enabled speakers.

Shot-down again. It's discrimination, I tell you

Do have a top view of those new RBH's?
There may still be to cancel your order.

A perfect timbre match could be obtained by hanging two more from the ceiling and when the sound really gets rolling, you might actually have to duck


- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Shot-down again. It's discrimination, I tell you

Do have a top view of those new RBH's?
There may still be to cancel your order.

A perfect timbre match could be obtained by hanging two more from the ceiling and when the sound really gets rolling, you might actually have to duck


- Rich

Hold on a second. I have to put on my cool 3D glasses to respond to that. How do I look now?

As far as I'm concerned, I am going back to basics. Good old accurate and dynamic speakers that give me great sound and awesome bass no matter what the surround sound codec is.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hi DefTechGuy,

All I am asking is for people to at least listen to an Atmos enabled loudspeaker before they just dismiss it.

Thanks,
Chris Walker

Hi Chris,

Does the Dolby ATMOS technology or the ATMOS enabled speakers improve the salient front 3 channels/speakers at all or just the surround sound effects channels?

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[MidnightSensi2]

A very valid point since the original mixes are being done for the Cinema which uses downfiring ceiling mounted speakers for the height channels providing much more direct sound to the listening area. It's unclear how this will translate into the home theater with "Atmos speakers" containing upfiring drivers relying on mostly bandwidth limited reflected sound to arrive at the listener. There is only so much that can be done with DSP to simulate what the director or sound engineer originally intended.

Nod, DSP is often fantastic, but, one big thing it doesn't solve is room modes or ringing. It can lower/even the amplitude, but can't solve the actual time coherence issues. This is where treatments come in...

Where more channels made sense to me in home environments was with the ability to use point sources to help localize sound in an environment that suffers from acoustical problems. Essentially this is the thought behind the 'nearfield' studio monitor... the speakers are so close to you that the reflected sound becomes less audible because you can run the nearfield speakers at a lower volume (inverse square law, therefore the reflected sound amplitude is significantly reduced). It seems Atmos Home is doing the opposite of the nearfield monitor concept.

Hugo mentioned his listening room has hard floors - I'm picturing a Florida home with tile over concrete slab. If Chris/Pioneer sends units to test, I'd be most interested in also a comparison between the main room you (Gene) do listening tests in, versus Hugo's room - which represents a significant chunk of people.

 

[gene]

Nod, DSP is often fantastic, but, one big thing it doesn't solve is room modes or ringing. It can lower/even the amplitude, but can't solve the actual time coherence issues. This is where treatments come in...

Where more channels made sense to me in home environments was with the ability to use point sources to help localize sound in an environment that suffers from acoustical problems. Essentially this is the thought behind the 'nearfield' studio monitor... the speakers are so close to you that the reflected sound becomes less audible because you can run the nearfield speakers at a lower volume (inverse square law, therefore the reflected sound amplitude is significantly reduced). It seems Atmos Home is doing the opposite of the nearfield monitor concept.

Hugo mentioned his listening room has hard floors - I'm picturing a Florida home with tile over concrete slab. If Chris/Pioneer sends units to test, I'd be most interested in also a comparison between the main room you (Gene) do listening tests in, versus Hugo's room - which represents a significant chunk of people.

Excellent points and agreed! It would be interesting to test these speakers in two radically different environments for sure. MOST peoples homes in Florida are exactly how Hugo describes making it a challenge for 5.1 let alone Atmos to work well in.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... The only time I received a response from Dolby was when they realized how much traction our articles and new video got online

...

What did you ask them and what was their response? Or, is that also covered by an NDA?

 

[tcarcio]

They mentioned it in the video but I would like some opinions here about how Atmos will effect room treatments? I am thinking that, at least in my case, I will have to re-evaluate what I have done in my HT with treatments. I actually have treatments on my ceiling so I know those would have to go. Any opinions on this?

 

[shadyJ]

Hugo mentioned his listening room has hard floors - I'm picturing a Florida home with tile over concrete slab. If Chris/Pioneer sends units to test, I'd be most interested in also a comparison between the main room you (Gene) do listening tests in, versus Hugo's room - which represents a significant chunk of people.

To be fair, hard floors are bad for any kind of audio setup, as they are the first and worst reflection point. If you are interested in good sound, the floor needs to be treated. Tile floors are the worst for acoustics.

 

[gene]

They mentioned it in the video but I would like some opinions here about how Atmos will effect room treatments? I am thinking that, at least in my case, I will have to re-evaluate what I have done in my HT with treatments. I actually have treatments on my ceiling so I know those would have to go. Any opinions on this?

If you're happy with the acoustics in your room, I wouldn't change it just to incorporate Atmos speakers. The Atmos Speakers allegedly want non treated ceilings so if you do pull down the acoustical treatment of your ceilings and find your room too echoey, you should consider carpeting the floor to compensate. Personally I prefer to treat the floor (at least first reflection point) and leave the ceiling as drywall with maybe some diffusion towards the listening area.

 

[gene]

A test to compare discrete ceiling speakers vs integrated "Atmos Speakers"

<!--[if gte mso 9]><![endif]-->If anyone gets to attend the Pioneer demo, I think a great test for comparison with discrete ceiling speakers is to pan a sound source to a location, and see if the listeners in different parts of the room localize them correctly with the Atmos speakers vs the discrete in-ceiling speakers. So far I haven't heard anyone talking about this.

 

[tcarcio]

If you're happy with the acoustics in your room, I wouldn't change it just to incorporate Atmos speakers. The Atmos Speakers allegedly want non treated ceilings so if you do pull down the acoustical treatment of your ceilings and find your room too echoey, you should consider carpeting the floor to compensate. Personally I prefer to treat the floor (at least first reflection point) and leave the ceiling as drywall with maybe some diffusion towards the listening area.

I actually do have carpet also and I am very happy with the sound as it is now. I won't be tearing anything down especially to try something I don't even know I would like. Thanks Gene.

 

[herbu]

Hugo's room - which represents a significant chunk

Hugo himself appears to represent a significant chunk.

 

[herbu]

This whole issue of Atmos sort of reminds me of the automobile Continuously Variable Transmission. I suspect time will tell. 10 years ago we looked at a Nissan w/ CVT. I didn't like the way it felt, but figured I could get used to the new feel if it really proved to be "better". Engineer "experts" argued both sides. I decided to let time and the market decide before I bought it. Now, 10 years later, it is still not popular, or even available, in the brands I consider to have the most sophisticated engineering.

It occurs to me that the first, currently available Atmos speakers could be compared with the Nissan brand. Not the cheapest and not the most sophisticated. It will be interesting to see how the true audiophile speaker brands react over the next 10 years.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hugo himself appears to represent a significant chunk.

The Incredible HULK.

Mr. ATMOS, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.