Dolby Atmos For Home Theater Explained

[Hugo Rivera]

Hot off the presses, here is our latest Dolby Atmos discussion. Check it out and let us know what you think!

[video=youtube;OXLQ4mIwyAk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXLQ4mIwyAk[/video]

 

[zieglj01]

Hot off the presses, here is our latest Dolby Atmos discussion. Check it out and let us know what you think!

I think they are in for a tough time - also the WAF thing, will play a big part in this.
Also, the economy will play a part.

On a side note - Captain Kirk did not smile, so it seems he is not in favor of Atmos.

If the Mirage and their omni-polar speakers were still in business - then it would, or
may be interesting to see how that could be figured in.

However, I am happy with DTS Master Audio.

Also, that looked like JBL Control 1 speakers that were placed on the SVS.

 

[gene]

Also, that looked like JBL Control 1 speakers that were placed on the SVS.

Actually they are my recently restored JBL Pro III's with Titanium tweeters. Good little speaker and always handy for situations like these

 

[zieglj01]

Actually they are my recently restored JBL Pro III's with Titanium tweeters. Good little speaker and always handy for situations like these

Right - a better tweeter is in the Pro series. It has been awhile since I owned the Control 1.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think ATMOS will help the producers/mixers and not adversely affect the consumers because most of us will still retain 5.1. So overall, it's a win.

I think most consumers like myself will not care about adding any more surround effects speakers. 2 surround speakers is all I want because I care more about the MAIN 3 front speakers and the LFE, not the surround effects. Probably 90% of the movie soundtrack is in the MAIN 3 front speakers and LFE anyway.

But some people will care about the other 10% surround effects and that's cool too.

 

[RichB]

Great Video!

Atmos fans over on AVS got in a huff about the humorous treatment of top-firing speaker solutions.

It seems to me, the higher the quality of the HT system, the more difficult it is to properly create an Atmos home system.

At first, I hoped that Atmos would map the surround onto the actual position of the speakers in the HT.
However, the Gen-1 Atmos HT add no value without additional ceiling channels.
That is too bad since the most HT have to deal with compromised speaker placement, sound objects could have been useful.

I wonder if DTS will come out with a solution that actually improves 5.1 setups. That would be a hoot

- Rich

 

[RichB]

I think ATMOS will help the producers/mixers and not adversely affect the consumers because most of us will still retain 5.1. So overall, it's a win.

I think most consumers like myself will not care about adding any more surround effects speakers. 2 surround speakers is all I want because I care more about the MAIN 3 front speakers and the LFE, not the surround effects. Probably 90% of the movie soundtrack is in the MAIN 3 front speakers and LFE anyway.

But some people will care about the other 10% surround effects and that's cool too.

All true, but if Atmos becomes like 3D, then I do not see how another logo on the box is going to improve sales. If the vast majority of the home market is not using it, then I do not expect studios bothering spend money on content.

There argument that it translates directly from the theater sound track does not cut it. For HT, there has to be the base 5.1/7.1 track and then some number of objects which is likely less than supported by a cinema. So, audio still needs to be remixed.

[Kidding]
Finally, HT can properly recreate the sound of someone peeing down my pack
[/Kidding]

- Rich

 

[RichB]

I don't know how much Atmos will really improve an existing 5.1/7.1 setup without adding height channels, but buying an Atmos AVR shouldn't specifically hurt anything beyond price. Of course I can't claim to have any plans to buy a new AVR or pre/pro at the moment either. Who knows though, maybe a trip to the CEDIA Expo will change my mind.

Gen-1 HT Atmos do not include processing to map actual speaker locations to the ideal.
So there is not surround processing benefit without ceiling channels.

There is always the possibility that more powerful DSP's could have other benefits.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All true, but if Atmos becomes like 3D, then I do not see how another logo on the box is going to improve sales. If the vast majority of the home market is not using it, then I do not expect studios bothering spend money on content.

There argument that it translates directly from the theater sound track does not cut it. For HT, there has to be the base 5.1/7.1 track and then some number of objects which is likely less than supported by a cinema. So, audio still needs to be remixed.

[Kidding]
Finally, HT can properly recreate the sound of someone peeing down my pack
[/Kidding]

- Rich

Yeah, my only point is that as long as it does not adversely affect people, ATMOS will be just fine. People can still use their 2.1, 3.1, 5.1 systems.

 

[gene]

Great Video!

Atmos fans over on AVS got in a huff about the humorous treatment of top-firing speaker solutions.

It seems to me, the higher the quality of the HT system, the more difficult it is to properly create an Atmos home system.

At first, I hoped that Atmos would map the surround onto the actual position of the speakers in the HT.
However, the Gen-1 Atmos HT add no value without additional ceiling channels.
That is too bad since the most HT have to deal with compromised speaker placement, sound objects could have been useful.

I wonder if DTS will come out with a solution that actually improves 5.1 setups. That would be a hoot

- Rich

I saw that thread on AVS where we are getting slammed and I love it. Nothing we said in this video was inaccurate and it's keeping the folks (even the ones criticizing us) discussing it. Some people just don't have a sense of humor I guess

Very good point BTW, as you get into a higher end system that doesn't compromise dynamic range or frequency response, adding Atmos type speakers or in-ceiling speakers can be a compromise.

BTW 500 views and 50 likes in less than one day, I think this video is off to a good start so far

 

[RichB]

Yeah, my only point is that as long as it does not adversely affect people, ATMOS will be just fine. People can still use their 2.1, 3.1, 5.1 systems.

Onkyo made the choice to support Atmos and drop Audyssey.
Given that Atmos = ceiling channels, that is an *interesting* choice.

To me, this proves that home electronics is very much fad based.
If you do not have this years *thing* in your product, you are doomed.
Unfortunately, they may be right

- Rich

 

[agarwalro]

Hot off the presses, here is our latest Dolby Atmos discussion. Check it out and let us know what you think!

[video=youtube;OXLQ4mIwyAk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXLQ4mIwyAk[/video]

Gene and Hugo have hit one out of the park. Loved every second of this video.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

From the video Gene says...
"If you can't get the front three channels right in a surround system, your compromising the whole experience"

THIS and I'm not just a 2 channel guy. This statement doesn't just apply to Atmos, but, systems in general.

I have a dedicated room, and I still run 5.1!! (and not because I don't have the extra speakers or amplification)

My, um, grandfather, told me "back in the day" they tried 'Stink Vision' (well, that's what he called it) for a short while, where they infused smells for the film into the theater.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Onkyo made the choice to support Atmos and drop Audyssey.

Well, that's Onkyo for you. What can I say?

You're not going to see Denon or Marantz dropping Audyssey for ATMOS.

But you have a point. Dropping Audyssey DEQ for ATMOS is detrimental and adversely affecting the sound quality for sure IMO.

 

[RichB]

My, um, grandfather, told me "back in the day" they tried 'Stink Vision' (well, that's what he called it) for a short while, where they infused smells for the film into the theater.

Yes, but they left the smell in the script

- Rich

 

[RichB]

I wonder if DTS can get their product supported via AVR/Processor DSP update.

DTS MDA is royalty free:

CC13-54 Trade Show - DTS with MDA (Multi Dimensional Audio) - With John Kellogg - YouTube

- Rich

 

[Walkamo]

I am really surprised at how Gene is completely dismissing the idea of the top firing driver for Atmos enabled speakers without ever hearing it. Just today I gave about 7 different demonstrations to people comparing the top firing drivers to traditional in-ceiling speakers and every group chose the top firing drivers (Saying that is gave a more natural experience). I understand being skeptical, however you should really hear it before you dismiss it. And simply placing another speaker on top of a bookshelf to illustrate how an Atmos enabled speaker functions is ridiculous. I would suggest audioholics reach out to someone who is intimately involved in Atmos speaker design and the actual specification before giving consumers bad information. And for the record I manage the Atmos speaker project for Pioneer/Elite. If Audioholics would like to speak to our Speaker Designer Andrew Jones, I am an email or phone call away....

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

 

[Steve81]

Just today I gave about 7 different demonstrations to people comparing the top firing drivers to traditional in-ceiling speakers and every group chose the top firing drivers (Saying that is gave a more natural experience). I understand being skeptical, however you should really hear it before you dismiss it.

Good morning Chris,

I'd definitely qualify myself as a skeptic, but I am curious to hear what Atmos has to offer in the home, including Atmos-enabled speakers. At the same time, I think it's fair to say there tends to be a big gap between what can be achieved in a well designed demo versus the real world. Non-ideal ceilings, loudspeaker placement, seating distances, etc. will all be factors in real setups.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And simply placing another speaker on top of a bookshelf to illustrate how an Atmos enabled speaker functions is ridiculous.

Could you elaborate?

That's exactly what it seems like to me. It may even do a better job and more cost effective with one speaker atop firing upward.

And I don't think Gene or anyone is utterly dismissing ATMOS or the Pioneer speakers. We are just skeptical and we are just sharing our opinions.

 

[gene]

I am really surprised at how Gene is completely dismissing the idea of the top firing driver for Atmos enabled speakers without ever hearing it. Just today I gave about 7 different demonstrations to people comparing the top firing drivers to traditional in-ceiling speakers and every group chose the top firing drivers (Saying that is gave a more natural experience). I understand being skeptical, however you should really hear it before you dismiss it. And simply placing another speaker on top of a bookshelf to illustrate how an Atmos enabled speaker functions is ridiculous. I would suggest audioholics reach out to someone who is intimately involved in Atmos speaker design and the actual specification before giving consumers bad information. And for the record I manage the Atmos speaker project for Pioneer/Elite. If Audioholics would like to speak to our Speaker Designer Andrew Jones, I am an email or phone call away....

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

Hi Chris;

I actually did send you and Andrew a copy of our Pioneer Speaker Atmos Preview to peer prior to publishing but never heard back.

Here is our Preview again:
Pioneer Dolby Atmos Speakers (SP-EFS73/SP-EBS73-LR/SP-EC73 and SW-E10) Preview | Audioholics

We even conducted a poll for our forum readers to get their reaction to this type of approach and the results were overwhelmingly against the approach of firing a driver at the ceiling to make the speaker "Atmos" ready.

Other than bandwidth limiting the driver and angling it up towards the ceiling, what other special design aspects are involved in an "Atmos Ready" speaker? I have spoken to several manufacturers that are doing EXACTLY what I showed in the video. They are in fact coming up with a speaker module to place on top of existing designs. Everyone I spoke to said it's a compromise to having discrete ceiling mounted speakers but at least it gives consumers an alternative option. You/Andrerw are the ONLY people I know of actually claiming this approach to be superior alternative.

I even discussed the "Atmos Ready" speaker concept with one of the most respected and prominent PHD level Acousticians and he dismissed the whole concept of bouncing sound waves off the ceiling from top mounted driver as a marketing gimmick. It will certainly sound different than a Non "Atmos Ready" speaker and maybe that difference will be pleasing to some consumers and even reviewers.

Our video poked a little fun at this approach. After all the nature of Audioholics.com is skepticism in marketing claims. It's in our slogan and it's what we've been doing since the inception of this site over 15 years ago.

That being said I am more than willing to take in some product for evaluation. If my experience is positive with this approach than of course we will do another video and I will even eat my own hat in the process. Until then we will remain skeptical and watch how these products roll out and how they are accepted by the consumers.