Dolby Atmos For Home Theater Explained

[AV_Nut]

It's unclear if that is true since at least Gen1 Atmos implemented in AV receivers is based on 7.1 TrueHD plus at least 2 or 4 height channels to extract the objects. We plan on digging in deeper about this issue with our up coming formal interview with Dolby.

I found by business card from the Dolby Director that gave the CES demo in the D&M suite. I left him a message as he said call me whenever I had a question. He has his PhD in Non Linear Signal Processing and his MSc in Digital Signal Processing. I suspect he will be able to answer our questions because we are bypassing the sales guys.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Scott Wilkinson with Home Theater Geeks did a detailed formal interview with two Atmos guys (I can post a link if you are o.k. with it). They mentioned that a 5.1 or 7.1 would sound better via Object based rendering.

When they say "better", are they talking about the surround channels or the main front 3 channels and subwoofers that will sound better with Object based rendering?

Will the 4 most important channels (Front Left, Center, Front Right, LFE) sound better or just the surround channels?

Will dialogue sound clearer than lossless TrueHD and DTS-HD MA?

 

[AV_Nut]

When they say "better", are they talking about the surround channels or the main front 3 channels and subwoofers that will sound better with Object based rendering?

Will the 4 most important channels (Front Left, Center, Front Right, LFE) sound better or just the surround channels?

Will dialogue sound clearer than lossless TrueHD and DTS-HD MA?

I spoke with Mr. Mark Tuffy Ph.D. seconds ago from Dolby. He was the lad who gave the demo at the D&M booth. His cell phone connection was challenging but here is what I got from the conversation.

1. In short the Atmos tools are superior. It's a software platform that will allow mixers to get more aggressive and therefore yield more dynamics both in the vertical and horizontal plane. Basically more wiz-bang effects are being mixed in. So yes, 5.1 and 7.1 Atmos enabled systems WILL sound better so long as the movie mixer took advantage of what Atmos can do. Putting it another way, the platform of tools are not available on discrete consoles.

2. With discrete mixing and for optimum results, your speaker placement should match the mixers to yield the most immersible sound. I didn't really know exactly what that meant but I took that at face value. Since he worked at DTS, Lucas Films, and has his PhD in Signal Processing I figure I will yield to his expertise. He explained matching speaker placement to the mixers placement is never a realistic situation. With Atmos and Object based rendering, you don't need the exact speaker placement to get optimum immersion.

He had other things to say but those are the big-picture cliff notes. In summary, it's a software thing. Every Atmos enabled receiver that processes a Atmos movie WILL be more immersive and impressive (so long as the mixer took advantage of the Object based features). He had complete confidence the consumer will benefit in 5.1 and 7.1. Simply put, Mark said it's audible and noticeable.

Steve with Sound Video in MN

 

[Stephen Novosel]

ALL I WANTED

I have a solid month's worth of personal experience with Atmos. I bought eight (8) of the available Atmos-supported Bluray films to use for my testing so I think I have a good sense of the promise vs. the reality. Bottom line for me, it's not worth the effort for the marketed/claimed rewards. This could be primarily because Dolby Labs refuses to support their Atmos technology by explaining how it is to be used or more importantly how its use can be appreciated.

My screening room is 14 x 24 x 9. The ceiling is flat. The room is acoustically treated and includes a 15' screen and projector along with with a host of so-called top-end audio gear driving Klipsch reference line speakers. A Yamaha 3040 Aventage decoded the Atmos.

As with many readers, I conducted due diligence before purchasing the Atmos-enabled Klipsch speakers. Even though I've been in the AV game for over 30 years, my first diligence stop was on Dolby Labs website to read all available Atmos materials; i.e. installation, set up, and placement requirements. Then I visited every other available AV-related website, Blog, and YouTube channel that even remotely discussed Atmos.

The takeaway from my due diligence was that no one -- not professional reviewers, nor (incredibly) even Dolby Labs spokespeople/technicians (their interviews about Atmos are on-line if you search) -- can say with any degree of certainty how this technology will work in a prototypical (recommended by Dolby Labs) residential Atmos environment. If you listen carefully, and if you read carefully, Dolby Labs hedges all of their claims. The same is true for every other Atmos review out there.

So, how does one decide what to do in light of a lack of consensus about a newer technology? You simply have to buy the stuff, install it, and see if it performs as advertised. Which I did.

Now, I understand the puffery that goes into the development and promotion of marketing claims. But what my wallet will not accept after a $3k+ speaker purchase is a non-responsive, patronizing reply from Dolby Labs when all I wanted was a clarification of statements or omissions they make in their marketing material. My one-sentence question to them was simply: "Should there be a difference in EQ/Bass management for Atmos-enabled upward firing vs. Atmos ceiling downward firing speakers?"

DOLBY REPLIES

"Thank you for your interest in Dolby Atmos home products. Our information shows that you have questions regarding your home system’s compatibility with Dolby Atmos, system set-up requirements, or home speaker placement. Dolby does not provide individualized end-user consultation in these areas. For your convenience, however, we do offer several general resources on our website that may be useful to you. These include: An introduction to Dolby Atmos home technologies (Cinema to Home tab)*. Links to information on many of our partner products.. An on-line speaker set-up guide, with a downloadable PDF speaker set-up guide, and several whitepapers on Dolby Atmos*. Our blog about Dolby Atmos for home theater. We hope you find these resources helpful. You may also wish to consult a leading home A/V retailer or independent dealer/installer for individual consultation on your specific home A/V system. Thank you very much for your interest in Dolby Atmos. * The configurations noted herein are illustrative. Dolby recommends that any overhead speaker installation be performed by professional installers with experience in installing overhead speakers."

YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN

My $3k+ Atmos adventure is over. I have returned the speakers for a full refund. In my screening room, I didn't "Feel Every Dimension" that Dolby claimed I would. I wasn't "transported into the story with moving audio that flows all around [me] with breathtaking (seriously???) realism". In short, the experience was a bust with the Atmos-enabled speakers. I would have considered installing ceiling speakers for further testing but not after the Dolby reply. That killed any enthusiasm to engage further. That response, to me, just shows that Dolby either doesn't bother to read customer inquiries, they don't bother to read their own support materials, or worse, they have no interest in ensuring that customers "get" the promised benefit. My one-sentence question was derived directly from language in Dolby's Atmos Set-Up pdf.

The hope that Dolby Labs has for the adoption of residential Atmos installations parallels the promises made in the film FIELD OF DREAMS. Dolby apparently believes that all they have to do is build it and we will come. However, the difference is that in FIELD those who "came" had a reasonable expectation of what they were going to get. Here we have to take a leap of faith. And you better not expect clarification from Dolby. For if you engage them you will only get passed off to "consult a leading home A/V retailer or independent dealer/installer for individual consultation on your specific home A/V system". Hey Dolby Labs -- Newsflash! -- there are a ton of us out here in consumerland who actually have MORE knowledge than A/V retailers and independent installers, and it is likely only going to be us who would even bother to make the kind of inquiry that I did in the first instance.

Bottom line -- Atmos is not a significant enough improvement (not any kind of a "wow!" factor which is what I was hoping for) over a good 7.2 or 9.2 installation. I get the underlying "object" theory behind the Atmos process but in the real world, it just doesn't translate.

 

[gene]

First of all, my hats off to you for participating in the great experiment and investing your time and money for the promise of a better tomorrow...today. Dolby is notorious for claiming their next generation tech is a revelation. When DD came on the scene they claimed compression was fine and you had true hi res audio with just Dolby Digital alone. Meanwhile multi-channel music encoded in DTS almost ALWAYS sounded better than its DD counterparts to most professionals and enthusiasts.

Then when TrueHD came, they finally admitted DD was a compromise in sonics due to excessive compression and even at a disadvantage to DTS. TrueHD was actually a quantum leap forward in multi-channel surround. So in that regard, kudos to Dolby for finally having a lossless surround coded. Of course DTS answered back with DTS HD which was equally good though an easier tool for production hence why it became the defacto standard in the industry and dominates Blu-ray to this day.

Now for Atmos, of course Dolby once again claimed it to be a leap forward from even TrueHD. They developed a speaker that fires up at the ceiling and hailed its as "the greatest breakthrough in 20 years". Most of the press echoed this b/c IMO they simply lack the capacity of critical thought. Dolby went so far as to claim their bouncy speakers are a BETTER solution than discrete ceiling mounted speakers. Again, the press and some manufacturers that jumped on the bouncy speaker bandwagon echoed this as well. What most people don't realize is the vested interest Dolby has in licensing this speaker technology to its partners. Conversely, they don't have a licensing solution for in-ceiling speakers.

The physics don't support the Atmos-enabled bouncy speakers and we've been both skeptical and critical of this since day one. Of course we took a LOT of heat for this from early adopter consumers at AVS Forum and the industry in general. But, we stuck to our guns. We stuck to the facts. We stuck to the science.

Please read:
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/hrtf-and-elevated-sound-dolby-atmos

http://www.audioholics.com/editorials/dolby-atmos-demo

Also check out our YouTube Videos on this topic too:

That said, if any Atmos-enabled speakers have a chance of at least presenting a reasonable approximation of a discrete ceiling mounted speaker I'd imagine the Klipsch ones would be them. The horn should do a good job of controlling directivity and the speaker has enough sensitivity to keep up with the rest of the speakers in the setup unlike the 4" paper wizzer cones that so many Atmos-enabled speakers are.

My advise to you is don't give up on Atmos just yet. Instead, try to install some discrete speakers either on the ceiling or higher up on the walls above your front and rear speakers. Atmos technology is actually viable and it does have potential to expand your surround experience beyond traditional 5.1 and 7.1 speaker set ups. It's the Atmos-reflection speaker that is the limiting factor in your situation.

Even if you don't install height speakers, you still chose a very good receiver that will handle all legacy formats very well in addition to handling your HD video processing and switching.

Thanks for your invaluable feedback and please let us know how it goes if you take some of my suggestions into consideration.

 

[Stephen Novosel]

Gene, I decided to take up your challenge. I installed discrete speakers on the ceiling. After experimentation to find a dispersion pattern that suited me, I settled on four Klipsch Icon KS-14 surrounds. Their front covers had to be screwed off, and I had to fashion a simple metal strip to ceiling-mount them, but they perform appropriately.

Now, I could say that I am a converted soul -- to heighten the drama of my story -- but . . . that would be lying. Are discrete speakers "better" than the enabled versions I previously tried? Yes, but. As I noted in my original post, the Dolby Labs Atmos promise is one of those nice-to-have features yet it's nothing earth shattering and would not be missed by 99.9999 percent of those who either cannot or will not adopt the technology whether by way of Atmos-enabled or on-the-ceiling speakers.

There are a few very detailed positive reviews of Atmos from individuals who break down precise moments in scenes from the ridiculously limited selection of blu-rays that encode Atmos. I re-read those posts thinking maybe I missed something because those folks claim it's the cat's meow. I now suspect confirmation bias. Only the recent Mission Impossible film created a sensation of enveloped sound (and only in two scenes) that was apparent to me and to my guest Atmos test subjects.

P.S. -- during the Atmos experiment, I also swapped out my three front speakers -- going from Klipsch towers and a RC-64 to three of the 650 Ultra-2 THXs. I can report that this one move has had more of an impact on my viewing experience than any other single change I've made in over twenty years of fiddling around dedicated home theaters. To say it was dramatic is an understatement. I am not kidding; there are times now when watching a film that I break into a smile just hearing what these puppies can produce. It's the closest experience to real cinema sound that I know. I encourage your readers to consider buying the 650s before investing in Atmos.

 

[maseline]

I was thinking about going with a 5.1.4 but I don't think I have the room for it. The room is only 14x16 and the seating is against the back wall. I already have 2 ceiling speakers directly above the couch. My question is: Will this give a proper height effect? Based on dolby's specs, they should be 30-50 degrees behind the seating area. That is obviously not going to be possible. I plan on installing 2 at 45 degrees in front of seating area. Should I just remove the 2 over the seating area?

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