Yamaha vs. Denon

[wire]

I agree with Seth=L EXCEPT you guys are all receiver happy. As already stated, the top end models have more bells and whistles than most will EVER use, and I think its dumb to pay for amps (in the receiver) if your going to buy an external amp anyways.

I paid $800.00 shipped for my prepro/amp combo. I paid $1000 for my Aperion Towers. I paid $1100 shipped for my Hsu.

Point is, Keninm2 in my opinion would be better served by looking into separates if he's willing to spend $1800 on a receiver. If he can hold out till January, Emotiva will have exciting offerings. For a terrific price on an receiver, if you must, (was $1999.00, now $999.00) look here:

http://www.emotiva.com/receivers.html

Yeh you get my vote also . I also think its crazy to buy a reciever , only to upgrade later to a extrernal amp . Just do it right the 1st time , Amps seldom go out of date .
Pre Pro is the way to go .

 

[mike c]

unfortunately, there are no pre-pros that are as cheap as the receivers with the amount of relevant features the receivers have ... for example:

HDMI 1.3 inputs 4 in 1 out (and I'm talking about video and audio)
the emotiva HDMI switchers can only switch video)

free tuner

perhaps use the built in amp channels for surrounds - to free up more budget for the front amps

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Onkyo TX-SR805 or 875 is sounding more reasonable. This weekend I will go to Frys where they might have the 805 or 875 just to check it out.

My biggest question now is, Which brand of speakers should I be looking at for a surround sound system.

Another question is floor model or book shelfs? I know they sound way different from each other.

I have been looking around but nothing yet.

Again I would appreciate brand recommendations.

Kevinm2, with a $4,000 budget, you could have a serious high-end system.
Can't wait to see what you will end up with. So many options.

I've listened to many receivers, and all of them sound very similar. Even the Denon 4308 doesn't sound significantly different than a Onkyo 805.

You might also want to check out all the systems each one of us have and ask specific questions.

 

[soloz2]

Onkyo TX-SR805 or 875 is sounding more reasonable. This weekend I will go to Frys where they might have the 805 or 875 just to check it out.

My biggest question now is, Which brand of speakers should I be looking at for a surround sound system.

Another question is floor model or book shelfs? I know they sound way different from each other.

I have been looking around but nothing yet.

Again I would appreciate brand recommendations.

speakers should be picked before the receiver.

Onkyo TX-SR875.

The TX-SR875 has a superior scaler and weighs 15 pounds more than the Denon. They have similar street prices to my knowledge.

The TX-SR805 doesn't have a scaler, to my knowledge

weight does not tell the whole story. Denon and Onkyo have different sound so one should listen to both before making the decision. Personally, I'd take a Marantz or NAD over either

 

[Seth=L]

weight does not tell the whole story. Denon and Onkyo have different sound so one should listen to both before making the decision. Personally, I'd take a Marantz or NAD over either

I can assure you the Denon do not have a different sound when operating within each's respective comfortable power limits. The weight typically means more power, which means it will sound better when pressed further than the the Denon.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If he can hold out till January, Emotiva will have exciting offerings.

I don't know about Emotiva. Greg just bought the Emotiva 200 wpc amp and it needs service already. These cheaper products may be cheaper for a reason.

 

[soloz2]

I can assure you the Denon do not have a different sound when operating within each's respective comfortable power limits. The weight typically means more power, which means it will sound better when pressed further than the the Denon.

weight typically means a heavier enclosure, power supply, and/or larger heatsinks. That doesn't mean a more efficient design that weighs less will be more powerful.

I stand by my original statement.

 

[fmw]

Yeh you get my vote also . I also think its crazy to buy a reciever , only to upgrade later to a extrernal amp . Just do it right the 1st time , Amps seldom go out of date .
Pre Pro is the way to go .

And it was the way I went for many years. I switched to a receiver just this year to make the system easier to use and more automated. My wife wouldn't turn on the power amps manually. She listened through the TV speakers. I lost no sound quality and gained quite a bit of flexibility and functionality. My Harmony remote does everything with the touch of a button. The only thing I have to do is leave the sub turned on all the time. It is the only part of the system that won't turn on or off with a remote.

If you have a powered subwoofer, virtually any amp in or out of a receiver is powerful enough to handle the mids and highs in almost any home theater. I wouldn't ever go back to separates.

 

[Seth=L]

weight typically means a heavier enclosure, power supply, and/or larger heatsinks. That doesn't mean a more efficient design that weighs less will be more powerful.

I stand by my original statement.

The heatsink variation in weight would be less than a pound. Aluminum heatsinks are not very heavy. The enclosures may account for a few pounds, most definitely less than 5 pounds difference and probably much less. The Onkyo is heavier due to a larger power supply with a higher volt amp rating, that means it is going to have better low impedance drive cabability. Lower drive capabability gives it an edge at medium to higher levels of output when a speaker's impedance drops lower or runs around 4 ohms. Larger power supply also means more headroom and overall power in most cases. The benchtests for the Onkyo TX-SR805 and up show they have solid power.

It has been noted that the large amounts of heat the TX-SR805, and TX-SR875 dissipate is due to an HDMI feature that turns on other components when certain functions are selected (components connected via HDMI). The amp is very similar (topology) to the Denon, so the efficiency varience should be minimal.

And pretty much any receiver within the same bracket of receivers is going to sound sonically identical to it's competiters. If you did a level matched/double blind test with these receiver you would likely find you could not tell the difference between the two assuming each is outputing within its comfortable operating range.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon and Onkyo have different sound so one should listen to both before making the decision.

How differently do they sound?

I can't tell a significant difference among any receivers. If there were a difference, do you think it would be significant enough for the majority of the population to discern?

Perhaps only a few can actually hear the difference?

 

[GlocksRock]

I don't know about Emotiva. Greg just bought the Emotiva 200 wpc amp and it needs service already. These cheaper products may be cheaper for a reason.

Any product can have issues, even expensive ones. Don't knock a brand or particular product just because one or two people have had an issue here and there. There are many happy Emotiva customers that haven't had issues with their gear, and I'll bet there are more satisfied customers than dissatisfied. Plus Emotiva has excellent customer service, and that means a lot to me, not every company is willing to stand behind thier products the way emotiva does.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I don't know about Emotiva. Greg just bought the Emotiva 200 wpc amp and it needs service already. These cheaper products may be cheaper for a reason.

The jury is still out; Emo said that it was rare to see an issue such as mine and you cant beat their customer service and the turn around is going to be quick. Now you know I usually only buy from my dealer and if had an issue, they would have simply gave me a new amp and the down time would be a couple of hours. The only issue is they carry Rotel, Anthem, Mark Levinson and McIntosh; all of which are more than I was willing to pay for an amp that I may or may not even need. In the end, if the EMO has no more issues, it was well worth 900 bucks.

 

[soloz2]

I have never heard two amplifiers that sound exactly the same. Many sound similar, but not the same. I'm not saying everyone will be able to hear the difference, but there are subtle differences nonetheless.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Any product can have issues, even expensive ones. Don't knock a brand or particular product just because one or two people have had an issue here and there. There are many happy Emotiva customers that haven't had issues with their gear, and I'll bet there are more satisfied customers than dissatisfied. Plus Emotiva has excellent customer service, and that means a lot to me, not every company is willing to stand behind thier products the way emotiva does.

The jury is still out; Emo said that it was rare to see an issue such as mine and you cant beat their customer service and the turn around is going to be quick. Now you know I usually only buy from my dealer and if had an issue, they would have simply gave me a new amp and the down time would be a couple of hours. The only issue is they carry Rotel, Anthem, Mark Levinson and McIntosh; all of which are more than I was willing to pay for an amp that I may or may not even need. In the end, if the EMO has no more issues, it was well worth 900 bucks.

My bad. My bad.
Emotiva =

I would love to have Mark Levinson.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I would love to have Mark Levinson.

I didnt even know you were gay

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have never heard two amplifiers that sound exactly the same. Many sound similar, but not the same. I'm not saying everyone will be able to hear the difference, but there are subtle differences nonetheless.

Yeah, I think only a few people out of a thousand can hear a difference between the Onkyo 805 vs Denon 4308. I'm just not one of those few.

I know I could easily hear a 100% difference in sound quality when I compared my Pioneer Elite SP99D Preamp/Processor + Acurus 200X3 amps vs. my Acurus RL11 + Acurus 200X3 amps.

I think I can tell the difference between the Harman Kardon 247 vs SP99D also, but not sure about HK247 vs RL11.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I didnt even know you were gay

Ha...Ha...You're sooooo funny. I forgot to laugh.

 

[GlocksRock]

Ha...Ha...You're sooooo funny. I forgot to laugh.

I laughed out loud

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I laughed out loud

Oh, you're just still sore because I made fun of your Emo!

I bet you & Greg are thinking of getting the future Emotiva Pre-pro w/ HDMI 1.3, TrueHD, & DTS-MA!
You know you gotta complete the system.

Emo Amp + Emo PrePro =

 

[GlocksRock]

actually it was Greg's EMO you dissed, I'm quite happy with mine... and actually I'm not considering the new EMO pre/pro. My old roommate is buying my current RX-V1600 and I'm getting the RX-V1800, I figure it will offer just as much, if not more than the new EMO, and still be cheaper, plus I can have it much sooner.

You got any more info on this upcoming pre/pro... I haven't really heard anything about it.