yamaha Avr with electric current on body

S

sand87

Audioholic
It's probably spelled out in your warranty as to the route they've taken with wanting to have you submit it for repair rather than simply refund you or provide a new unit in exchange. Same would happen here in US I'd think, only time you get a refund/replacement on demand is thru the retailer within his specified time frame for doing so (usually 30 days or less from purchase), otherwise you're subject to the terms of the factory warranty.

One thought might be to take a clear video showing your setup/connections and your multimeter testing efforts and results and to send that to Yamaha to see if that would alter their stance....
yup but theres always this thing that u cant just claim warranty to repair even if its a grave defect on the manufacturers end like selling items which give shock to consumers.
the one thing thats bothering as always is having random units with this issue no ones escalating it to yamaha.the result model after model year after year this issue persists.i hope this will bring it to their view and they start taking things seriously.
i have already made up my mind to purchase a new one,dont know which one.but still i want to see this to its logical end coz yamaha shud learn from this and never remain in eternal denial thus repeating the same issue in every single mode they make.
and reading that arrogant mail wat do u srsly think.one needs to be uber innocent tonthink that a video unless it kicks up a storm is going to alter anythng.its not.anyways i have already sent them a legal notice.shud they stick to this i am taking them to a consumer court.lets hope the court holds them reaponsible and hope that opens a floodgate of claims which i do know exist where yamaha is forced to take notice.but then all this is just a wish.i have nthng to lose.the lest the court will rule is to repair and i am fine.anyways gonna sell it off.but i will be content knowing that atleast i didnt give up
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
yup but theres always this thing that u cant just claim warranty to repair even if its a grave defect on the manufacturers end like selling items which give shock to consumers.
the one thing thats bothering as always is having random units with this issue no ones escalating it to yamaha.the result model after model year after year this issue persists.i hope this will bring it to their view and they start taking things seriously.
i have already made up my mind to purchase a new one,dont know which one.but still i want to see this to its logical end coz yamaha shud learn from this and never remain in eternal denial thus repeating the same issue in every single mode they make.
You haven't proven anything particularly, though. Has the dealer also communicated with this person at Yamaha that you're chatting with to confirm he has independently found the same issue in units on hand? You have made an unproven claim to Yamaha (taking Yamaha's viewpoint) who has offered you a decent route to take....send the unit in for repair/analysis to prove your claim.
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
ok
You haven't proven anything particularly, though. Has the dealer also communicated with this person at Yamaha that you're chatting with to confirm he has independently found the same issue in units on hand? You have made an unproven claim to Yamaha (taking Yamaha's viewpoint) who has offered you a decent route to take....send the unit in for repair/analysis to prove your claim.
so wat u mean by lack of proof.do u mean my unit doesnt have an issue.even yamaha concedes that there units never have electric voltage and if thats there its a defect.
analysis huh.u dont know how stuff works here.this guy called me up and never told me that the end of the analysis is to repair.the only reason if you read the mail is because i had got a call from my nearest srvice centre who had already spilled the beans.
till then the guy was claiming that refund and replacement options on the table.only after prodding him further does he reveal his true intentions.even mu lawyer told me that i was right not to submit for two to three days as having voltage on the body is pretty evident and they can just test in front of you without opening up anyways but he said if u submit they can and will fix it and thus u end up without a claim and u wud remember i never asked for a repair
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
ok

so wat u mean by lack of proof.do u mean my unit doesnt have an issue.even yamaha concedes that there units never have electric voltage and if thats there its a defect.
analysis huh.u dont know how stuff works here.this guy called me up and never told me that the end of the analysis is to repair.the only reason if you read the mail is because i had got a call from my nearest srvice centre who had already spilled the beans.
till then the guy was claiming that refund and replacement options on the table.only after prodding him further does he reveal his true intentions.even mu lawyer told me that i was right not to submit for two to three days as having voltage on the body is pretty evident and they can just test in front of you without opening up anyways but he said if u submit they can and will fix it and thus u end up without a claim and u wud remember i never asked for a repair
I'm saying you haven't conclusively proved your issue to Yamaha (in their view, which is understandable). You may well have a defective unit, but I'm not there and not able to check for myself. Not sure why I need to know what your take on "how stuff works here", or why that would be relevant to Yamaha either. If your lawyer can force an outcome that you're happy with, good luck....but here a lawyer's involvement would likely exceed the value of the avr to begin with. Hard to follow the last bit, but seems the possible outcomes are determined by the wording of the warranty, which likely do not include an unsubstantiated demand of refund/replacement. I wish you luck in any case. Maybe @AcuDefTechGuy can shed some Yamaha knowledge here....
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
I'm saying you haven't conclusively proved your issue to Yamaha (in their view, which is understandable). You may well have a defective unit, but I'm not there and not able to check for myself. Not sure why I need to know what your take on "how stuff works here", or why that would be relevant to Yamaha either. If your lawyer can force an outcome that you're happy with, good luck....but here a lawyer's involvement would likely exceed the value of the avr to begin with. Hard to follow the last bit, but seems the possible outcomes are determined by the wording of the warranty, which likely do not include an unsubstantiated demand of refund/replacement. I wish you luck in any case. Maybe @AcuDefTechGuy can shed some Yamaha knowledge here....
ok let me elaborate a bit.in india say a seller sells u a defective device.u take it home.find it defective and take it back.they wont accept but ask to go to service centre.many a times going to consumer court have solved it and smtimes escalations.mostly people let it be thereby giving companies the feeling that they can mess around.
i didnt approach them with theories but gave them data.if they had bothered to ask for more i wid have.
now wat they had planned to do was to get the device to service centre and repair it and thus no claim rt!!
i stood my ground and asked them as to why they wanted it submitted for so long if refund or replacement was wat they wanted to do post analysis which they cud do afterwards as i will anyways give back the device.he still stuck to that.only the further needling made him blurt out the reason.
i had contacted many electronics and audio engineers and they were pretty clear where the issue cud have originated which was also substantiated by two yamaha ASC over the call.either the smps or the transformer is faulty.they advised me against repair and said its better to ground it as repair cud mess stuff up.
i also checked my electrical socket for transmission issues.the pot diff between my neutral and ground is 0v.pot diff btw neutral and phase and phase and ground is 225-230v.

now connecting one pin of multimeter to screw of avr/usb port/aux port and the other at ground is 10v.its prominent enough to have this shock sensation if i connect anything to it and touch it provided its metal.
 
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S

sand87

Audioholic
i have a question though.i plan to go for another avr as if they go for repair after all the process and litigation i will then sell it off after fixing the leakage issue.
so which one is a better buy a yamaha or a denon.i know its not an easy yes or no.my req:-

1. streaming netflix/prime/apple tv and using airplay or usb for music.music and movies will be 50-50 usage probably.

2. less quality issues or i mean avr not giving issues atleast for an year if thats possible.

3.denon doesnt have any website in india and am not sure about who deals witth warranty and stuff if i buy online.
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
to every yamaha user i have a request..an earnest request.please whoever has leakage current over his/her avr report to yamaha.
today i took it to the authorized service at my place and they checked over an analog meter and its 5V ac.sm more devices there have lesser voltages but yamaha is being highly evasive.a branch manager called and first said no yamaha devices have this.so i asked then why do these have.he evaded and later said most have it.so i told him.get a grip .is it there or not coz in both he cudnt answer why same models of two people either have it or dont have it.similar issue across models and even generations.he agreed that they will report it above to prevent in future and thanked
me for raising this issue.i have just this earnest request.its not leakage or any other distribution issue but an issue with avr.
today on an analog multimeter it registered 5V ac.the tester lights up well and another guy too felt the voltage on his skin.
wat i saying is the ques isnt if its harmles or residual or not but why do diff models have diff behaviour.why does yamaha very confidently say leakage voltage on body is a defect and yet users just refuse to accept.
why i ask to raise it loud and clear is because let yamaha cm forward and say openly as to what it is?is there or is there not and either ways then why does their avr behave differently for the same model??
Am not a big knowledgeble guy as others in this forum but i am just askng logically.neither i nor the branch guy cud answer my query
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
I actually I do have one of those AVO meters. It is an interesting story as to how I obtained it.

I had an itch to own one a few years ago, and won a bid on eBay. I was contacted by a guy that I over bid. Well it turned out he was an expert collector/restorer of AVO meters who resided in the UK.

He told me that the AVO meter I had purchased was a very rare one, and wanted it to complete his collection. So he asked me if I would let him have it and it return he would restore a WWII RAF version of the AVO meter that he had in his possession. I agreed, and somewhat to my surprise this immaculately restored RAF AVO meter arrived from the UK. It was immaculate in every way and contained all the original attachments. It is simply beautiful. I love to think it serviced hurricanes and Spitfires and probably did. It has all its military markings. It is a gorgeous piece. I must take some pictures of it for you.
purchased an analog one today.we tested at yamaha service centre.shows 5V Ac.still yamaha guys says its a defect ...then they revert and they pretty much cant make up their mind because either ways they wont be able to explain as to why same models behave differently...eg.i have leakage ac voltage,smone else doesnt.its not a distribution issue.reaosn i forgot to give all details.the pot diff btw my

grnd and neutral in the socket is 0V.
neutral and phase is 225-230v
phase and ground is 225-230v.

checked at different homes.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
purchased an analog one today.we tested at yamaha service centre.shows 5V Ac.still yamaha guys says its a defect ...then they revert and they pretty much cant make up their mind because either ways they wont be able to explain as to why same models behave differently...eg.i have leakage ac voltage,smone else doesnt.its not a distribution issue.reaosn i forgot to give all details.the pot diff btw my

grnd and neutral in the socket is 0V.
neutral and phase is 225-230v
phase and ground is 225-230v.

checked at different homes.
I can assure you that you can NOT feel 5 volts. So if you truly can feel it, then for some reason your measurement is in error, by a factor of at least five. Did you measure this between the screws and your mains ground at the outlet? You need to do AC and DC measurements to ground. When you do the DC measurement you need to take a measurement and then reverse the probes. I have to stress you need to make these measurement between the test point and true ground. They are meaningless otherwise.
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
I can assure you that you can NOT feel 5 volts. So if you truly can feel it, then for some reason your measurement is in error, by a factor of at least five. Did you measure this between the screws and your mains ground at the outlet? You need to do AC and DC measurements to ground. When you do the DC measurement you need to take a measurement and then reverse the probes. I have to stress you need to make these measurement between the test point and true ground. They are meaningless otherwise.
well i didnt.they did.but let me ask u a thing i never get a clarity from neither here nor yamaha.is electric voltage normal on the body of a yamaha.if yes then why many across same or diff models dont.and if it isnt normal as even yamaha suggests then why is it there on many models.wen i ask yamaha they can never answer.they thanked me for flagging this but even they are confused it seems.

let me ask this ques diff:-
some apple iphone 11 brand new will retain chrg for 3 hrs and sm will retain for 6 hrs.the issue is not if i can manage by chegng more number of times.my ques is,is it ok or not?

please note am not arguing.again trying to understand stuff
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
I can assure you that you can NOT feel 5 volts. So if you truly can feel it, then for some reason your measurement is in error, by a factor of at least five. Did you measure this between the screws and your mains ground at the outlet? You need to do AC and DC measurements to ground. When you do the DC measurement you need to take a measurement and then reverse the probes. I have to stress you need to make these measurement between the test point and true ground. They are meaningless otherwise.
also i dont really know wat to say.not only I but mu friend too felt it badly and he also said this is not gud.measurement at multiple places on the analog multimeter with it set to 10V ac for measuring showed 5V ac.who knows
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
also i dont really know wat to say.not only I but mu friend too felt it badly and he also said this is not gud.measurement at multiple places on the analog multimeter with it set to 10V ac for measuring showed 5V ac.who knows
It is not normal to get any form of electric shock from any part of a any electronic device. It has to be considered dangerous. This excludes quick static discharge from discharging yourself it you happen to have a static charge on you.

But you are hard to help. You have to make your measurements with reference to true ground. So do that and post them here. That has to be your next step.
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
It is not normal to get any form of electric shock from any part of a any electronic device. It has to be considered dangerous. This excludes quick static discharge from discharging yourself it you happen to have a static charge on you.

But you are hard to help. You have to make your measurements with reference to true ground. So do that and post them here. That has to be your next step.
i did.
heres wat all i did.
i first measured my sockets
neutral -phase -225/230v
phase -ground - 225/230v
neutral- ground - 0v.no issues there.
now connected pin to screw on the yamaha and the other end to ground.thats wen i got this reading on an analog multimeter.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
well i didnt.they did.but let me ask u a thing i never get a clarity from neither here nor yamaha.is electric voltage normal on the body of a yamaha.if yes then why many across same or diff models dont.and if it isnt normal as even yamaha suggests then why is it there on many models.wen i ask yamaha they can never answer.they thanked me for flagging this but even they are confused it seems.

let me ask this ques diff:-
some apple iphone 11 brand new will retain chrg for 3 hrs and sm will retain for 6 hrs.the issue is not if i can manage by chegng more number of times.my ques is,is it ok or not?

please note am not arguing.again trying to understand stuff
If you have had any classes in Physics, you would have learned that electricity is potential energy and that it's there for the taking, as long as you connect it to a load. If you feel a tingle, YOU'RE the load and that's bad because under the right conditions, current passing through a body can be lethal. The chassis is supposed to be at the same potential voltage as the building's ground, so you would read 0 V if you try to measure this between them. The fact that you feel it and measure voltage means there's a problem. Was it AC voltage? If so, it probably means the power transformer has a short in a winding. If it's DC voltage, it's coming from some point in the power supply that's after the transformer.

BTW- voltage and current are two different things.
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
its
If you have had any classes in Physics, you would have learned that electricity is potential energy and that it's there for the taking, as long as you connect it to a load. If you feel a tingle, YOU'RE the load and that's bad because under the right conditions, current passing through a body can be lethal. The chassis is supposed to be at the same potential voltage as the building's ground, so you would read 0 V if you try to measure this between them. The fact that you feel it and measure voltage means there's a problem. Was it AC voltage? If so, it probably means the power transformer has a short in a winding. If it's DC voltage, it's coming from some point in the power supply that's after the transformer.

BTW- voltage and current are two different things.
its ac voltage and i never said dc.and there is 5V ac voltage.i didnt say current.i meant voltage.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
its

its ac voltage and i never said dc.and there is 5V ac voltage.i didnt say current.i meant voltage.
Have you also tried it on the DC setting? The problem I have is that there should be absolutely no voltage. But you can not feel 5 volts. You can prove that with a battery. You can touch the terminals of your 12 volt car battery and you can not feel it.
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
Have you also tried it on the DC setting? The problem I have is that there should be absolutely no voltage. But you can not feel 5 volts. You can prove that with a battery. You can touch the terminals of your 12 volt car battery and you can not feel it.
no i didnt check dc.you mean the avr shudnt have any voltage rt.i checked at 3 diff locations and it showed the same thing.checked a 9V DC but never got any shock.this is a 5 V ac and its giving me a shock.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
@TLS Guy I've seen indications that 1-10V could be felt if enough current is present, like this one indicates http://www.highvoltageconnection.com/articles/ElectricShockQuestions.htm .
If you are in shoes, then the body will not pass the current required for a shock, as the resistance of the body is too high. At 5 volts it would not even do that with no shoes and wet feet. He absolutely needs to test on the DC range as well, as stray power supply voltages would almost certainly be DC. I have serviced enough equipment to tell you what gives you shock and what does not. Yes, its learning the hard way, but it happens.
 
S

sand87

Audioholic
If you are in shoes, then the body will not pass the current required for a shock, as the resistance of the body is too high. At 5 volts it would not even do that with no shoes and wet feet. He absolutely needs to test on the DC range as well, as stray power supply voltages would almost certainly be DC. I have serviced enough equipment to tell you what gives you shock and what does not. Yes, its learning the hard way, but it happens.
thing is for starters the voltage shouldnt even be there considering the fact that we can now safely say that its not my local distribution or anythng thats at fault.what i am alao saying is that yamaha has serious quality control issues.am not a genius but having voltage on one 685 while not having in another,having voltage in a rx A770 but not having it on an 880..having voltage on an 803...and theblist goes on.remember even in these many receivers the variations are glaring to start with.as i am saying time and again is that the ques no more is if its harmful or not but the fact that its a defect,considering that it doesnt exist on all.u cant have two 685's not have it and 2 others have it.
 

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