Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[RedHotFuzz]

Not sure if this is already "old" news, but Sound United is releasing the Denon X8500H and Marantz AV8805 with new HDMI 2.1 boards. They will be labeled "A" models. Looks like the prices went up $200 for each. $4299 for Denon and $4799 for Marantz. Or you can purchase the HDMI 2.1 kit for $599 to install on your current Denon or Marantz.

Do you know if they're doing this with any of the down-budget models as well?

 

[Movie2099]

Do you know if they're doing this with any of the down-budget models as well?

They did not mention any models below the top of the line. I think for everything else they will just sell the kit and you can upgrade it yourself.

 

[TheLamonster]

As listed on the Yamaha site, there is an $800 price difference between the RX-A8A and RX-A6A. I was thinking for that price I could get two Outlaw 2220 monoblocks or any number of brands of Class D Hypex NC502 or NC500 amps. Or I could save the money for the time being and use my Emotiva a100 for the rear height channels.

I was thinking the same thing. I am planning to go with the A6A for $800 cheaper than A8A, and spending that money on an Outlaw 5000x ($769)to power my front stage. The only difference I see between the A6A and A8A is the secondary DAC being lower-tier on the A6A. The A8A also has 13 speaker outputs which might be nice for Auro-3D. Sacrificing those two things means way more wattage overall to power my 11 channel system. Given that, I don't really understand why anyone would go for the A8A as you can take that $800 and spend it more efficiently going this route.

Am I right or am I missing something?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't really understand why anyone would go for the A8A as you can take that $800 and spend it more efficiently going this route.

Am I right or am I missing something?

Personally, if I had 11 speakers, I would just get the A8A and not worry about any other amps.

One of the main reasons for owning any AVR is convenience - not having to worry about buying any external amps.

So many people probably just want an AVR to power all 11 speakers (RX-A8A, X6700, SR8015) or all 13 speakers (Denon X8500).

There are other personal factors that some of us might feel uncomfortable to divulge on open forum.

There is no "right or wrong" or what "makes sense or doesn't make sense". We don't have to justify to everyone that we made the "right decision" that "makes most sense". It's just personal preference.

At the end of the day, if you feel good about adding an Outlaw amp to your AVR, then it's the right decision for YOU.

And if others feel good about just getting the A8A, X6700 or SR8015 to power all 11 speakers, then that's the right decision for them.

 

[TheLamonster]

Personally, if I had 11 speakers, I would just get the A8A and not worry about any other amps.

One of the main reasons for owning any AVR is convenience - not having to worry about buying any external amps.

So many people probably just want an AVR to power all 11 speakers (RX-A8A, X6700, SR8015) or all 13 speakers (Denon X8500).

There are other personal factors that some of us might feel uncomfortable to divulge on open forum.

There is no "right or wrong" or what "makes sense or doesn't make sense". We don't have to justify to everyone that we made the "right decision" that "makes most sense". It's just personal preference.

At the end of the day, if you feel good about adding an Outlaw amp to your AVR, then it's the right decision for YOU.

And if others feel good about just getting the A8A, X6700 or SR8015 to power all 11 speakers, then that's the right decision for them.

That's a good point, I didn't consider the convenience factor of having just one big hot metal box in your entertainment center instead of 2+ lol

 

[SB_Woo]

I just confirmed with Yamaha that 4k@120hz will only be available on 3 in and 1 out for the three new models. This is unfortunate for us Samsung TV owners. My Samsung Q80T only has 1 HDMI 2.1 input and it is not the eArc connection.

 

[iraweiss]

They did not mention any models below the top of the line. I think for everything else they will just sell the kit and you can upgrade it yourself.

Although they are updating last years top models which they kept in the lineup until now and although current lesser models get an external box fix, let's compare the Sound United update policy for their top models to Yamaha:

Update for HDMI 2.1 Compatibility of Select 2020 AV Receivers with Certain Gaming, Video Devices (May 2021)
For certain pass-through compatibility with: Xbox Series X, NVIDIA RTX30

Affected models: RX-V4A, RX-V6A, RX-A2A, TSR-400 and TSR-700

From the time we launched several AV receivers in 2020, we stated that we would support emerging HDMI 2.1 capabilities – including pass-through of 4K/120Hz – in these models via future updates. A future hardware update is required on the above AV receivers for customers who plan to connect Xbox Series X or NVIDIA RTX30 at 4K/120Hz to these select AV receivers.

The information below provides further detail for customers requiring 4K/120Hz transmission compatibility with the above AV receivers and the Xbox Series X or NVIDIA RTX30 video device.

For Customers Requiring 4K/120Hz from Select Xbox, NVIDIA Source Devices
A free update program will be available starting in fall 2021 to update the HDMI board on these AV receivers to allow for the 4K/120Hz signal transmission with these source devices.

• This HDMI board update is complimentary to customers for 24 months after the program starts.
• We will provide an update of next steps here this summer.
• Be sure to register your product to be notified of next steps and receive direct communication about the update program...

HDMI 2.1 board exchange of select 2020 AV Receivers with Certain Gaming, Video Devices (December 2023) - Yamaha USA

usa.yamaha.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's a good point, I didn't consider the convenience factor of having just one big hot metal box in your entertainment center instead of 2+ lol

More heat, more wires, possibly more fans (some people use USB fans to cool their AVR and Amps), less rooms for other components, aesthetics, etc.

To some people, adding 2 more external amps from Outlaw or other brands may look fine or even great. To some people, that would look uglier to them.

So just a variety of pros and cons.

 

[iraweiss]

For the heat issue I'm using an Aircom T8 on my current Yamaha receiver. Shows 86 degrees on the display after the receiver is running for hours. I'll just switch it over to the new Yamaha.

 

[iraweiss]

I just confirmed with Yamaha that 4k@120hz will only be available on 3 in and 1 out for the three new models. This is unfortunate for us Samsung TV owners. My Samsung Q80T only has 1 HDMI 2.1 input and it is not the eArc connection.

Where did you see that? Nothing on the Yamaha site, online comments, YouTube videos or manuals details any limit to the number of 4K 120hz inputs and outputs.

 

[ryanosaur]

Just saw this on the Marantz Site for the 8805A:

Enjoy exquisite video performance thanks to the latest HDMI technologies. The Marantz AV8805A includes 8 HDMI inputs and 3 outputs for all your favorite sources. One dedicated 8K input supports 8K/60Hz or 4K/120Hz pass-through capability, while Dolby Vision, HLG, HDR10+, 21:9 video, 3D, BT.2020 pass-through and HDCP 2.3 copy protection standard is supported on all HDMI inputs.

This is more than just a little bit of a shame.

And this for the Denon X8500HA:

The Denon AVR-X8500HA AV Receiver features an advanced HDMI section (8 in/3 out) with a dedicated 8K input that supports 8K/60Hz or 4K/120Hz video pass-through. Each of the HDMI inputs provide available 8K upscaling, 4:4:4 Pure Color subsampling, HDR10, Dolby Vision, Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) and BT.2020 pass-through support for incredible color, sharp clarity and dynamic contrast.
The main HDMI output even features Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC) HDMI support. This allows you to connect your TV or Projector via eARC to allow uncompressed and object-based audio formats like Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X® directly from your smart TV app to the AV receiver.

More SAME... More SHAME!

I get these are older products getting an upgrade, and perhaps there is something keeping SU from making these Digital Board upgrades COMPLETE.
Unfortunately, this is the corporate equivalent of curling up in the sandlot and letting the rest of the kick-ballers kick them in the balls!
If SU doesn't step up with something serious for the 2021 release under both brands, they will risk losing some serious market share to Yamaha and anybody else that steps to the plate with even just a little swagger. Imagine if Anthem got their house in order and released a flawless HDMI 2.1 update later this year as they claim they will...

Are the SU Brands going to be left with nothing to do but chase people around in Best Buy offering free dongles to anybody that's willing to take their AVR/Ps?

 

[PENG]

Just saw this on the Marantz Site for the 8805A:


This is more than just a little bit of a shame.

And this for the Denon X8500HA:


More SAME... More SHAME!

I get these are older products getting an upgrade, and perhaps there is something keeping SU from making these Digital Board upgrades COMPLETE.
Unfortunately, this is the corporate equivalent of curling up in the sandlot and letting the rest of the kick-ballers kick them in the balls!
If SU doesn't step up with something serious for the 2021 release under both brands, they will risk losing some serious market share to Yamaha and anybody else that steps to the plate with even just a little swagger. Imagine if Anthem got their house in order and released a flawless HDMI 2.1 update later this year as they claim they will...

Are the SU Brands going to be left with nothing to do but chase people around in Best Buy offering free dongles to anybody that's willing to take their AVR/Ps?

Or you can call them smart. They know it is easy to get the not so technically informed/inclined consumers to buy into such marketing stuff that would be well supported by hearsay and misconceptions already exist and wide spread.

For the objectivists who want to use separate power amps, the best D+M AVPs are actually their AVRs, and that would be from the AVR-X3700H and up and for those who prefer Marantz, it would be the SR8015. Those who must have XLRs, are stuck with the Marantz AVPs that measured much worse than the Denon AVRs and the Marantz SR8015. I always maintain that measured worse would mean little in most if not all cases, but it is such a shame that so many paid more thinking that they are getting "better sound quality", though some also go that route because they were led to believe AVRs are just unreliable, even evils..

Let's wait and see what is Yamaha going to do with their upcoming CX-A5300 (may be CX-A1A or something like that?)

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

That's quite the jump in price from the RX-A3080 which was the last generation top AVR, to the RX-A8A @ 800$~1000$ USD

 

[ryanosaur]

Or you can call them smart. They know it is easy to get the not so technically informed/inclined consumers to buy into such marketing stuff that would be well supported by hearsay and misconceptions already exist and wide spread.

For the objectivists who want to use separate power amps, the best D+M AVPs are actually their AVRs, and that would be from the AVR-X3700H and up and for those who prefer Marantz, it would be the SR8015. Those who must have XLRs, are stuck with the Marantz AVPs that measured much worse than the Denon AVRs and the Marantz SR8015. I always maintain that measured worse would mean little in most if not all cases, but it is such a shame that so many paid more thinking that they are getting "better sound quality", though some also go that route because they were led to believe AVRs are just unreliable, even evils..

Let's wait and see what is Yamaha going to do with their upcoming CX-A5300 (may be CX-A1A or something like that?)

It's just a bummer that SU had an opportunity to make a statement on HDMI 2.1 with these Digital Board Upgrades and they settled for status quo a la their dongle solution with just a single port affected. Nothing about measurements involved, but what capabilities your $4500-$5000 gets you over the next 5-10 years.
Maybe Yamaha is taking a chance on an upgraded chipset? According to this from ASR, that's what it looks like for these new 2021 Aventage. I hope they are legit: it will bode well for the future products coming later this year and next.
The flipside isn't so bright.

 

[PENG]

Maybe Yamaha is taking a chance on an upgraded chipset? According to this from ASR, that's what it looks like for these new 2021 Aventage. I hope they are legit: it will bode well for the future products coming later this year and next.
The flipside isn't so bright.

Imo, D+M may have a legit excuse for being first out of the gate. Yamaha's could arguably be considered 2021 models based on expected delivery to the stores. If they still come with bugs it would be a shame too.

With all thing considered, there is no way I would consider an AVR/AVP upgrade until at least 2022, more likely 2023. There are just nothing currently available that are worth "upgrading" to. I don't trust the those new AXA Advantage series either. If my Denon failed prematurely, I would just re-install the AV8801.

 

[iraweiss]

Or you can call them smart. They know it is easy to get the not so technically informed/inclined consumers to buy into such marketing stuff that would be well supported by hearsay and misconceptions already exist and wide spread.

For the objectivists who want to use separate power amps, the best D+M AVPs are actually their AVRs, and that would be from the AVR-X3700H and up and for those who prefer Marantz, it would be the SR8015. Those who must have XLRs, are stuck with the Marantz AVPs that measured much worse than the Denon AVRs and the Marantz SR8015. I always maintain that measured worse would mean little in most if not all cases, but it is such a shame that so many paid more thinking that they are getting "better sound quality", though some also go that route because they were led to believe AVRs are just unreliable, even evils..

Let's wait and see what is Yamaha going to do with their upcoming CX-A5300 (may be CX-A1A or something like that?)

Or RX-A8A or RX-A6A for front channel XLR jacks. I do wish Yamaha would add a third (center channel) XLR jack in future receiver models. I wish I could afford a new Yamaha pre-pro and power amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's quite the jump in price from the RX-A3080 which was the last generation top AVR, to the RX-A8A @ 800$~1000$ USD

The RX-A3080 (MSRP $2,200 when first released) = RX-A6A (MSRP $2,200).

Both have 150W x 9CH amps and 11.2CH Processing. Both have L/R XLR Inputs and Outputs.

Yamaha got rid of the RX-A2080 (no new equivalent).

I think the new $3,000 RX-A8A = old $5,500 RX-Z11. Both have 150W x 11Ch amps. So that's a huge price decrease from $5,500 to $3,000.

But we'll have to see the power amp measurements of the new RX-A8A to see how it compares to the RX-Z11.

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

The RX-A3080 (MSRP $2,200 when first released) = RX-A6A (MSRP $2,200).

Both have 150W x 9CH amps and 11.2CH Processing. Both have L/R XLR Inputs and Outputs.

Yamaha got rid of the RX-A2080 (no new equivalent).

I think the new $3,000 RX-A8A = old $5,500 RX-Z11. Both have 150W x 11Ch amps. So that's a huge price decrease from $5,500 to $3,000.

But we'll have to see the power amp measurements of the new RX-A8A to see how it compares to the RX-Z11.

Fair enough. Thanks for the info.

The question for me then becomes: does the RX-A8A justify the jump in cost over the RX-A6A. Once I convert it over into Canadian Pesos, it's ~1200$ more.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Imo, D+M may have a legit excuse for being first out of the gate. Yamaha's could arguably be considered 2021 models based on expected delivery to the stores. If they still come with bugs it would be a shame too.

With all thing considered, there is no way I would consider an AVR/AVP upgrade until at least 2022, more likely 2023. There are just nothing currently available that are worth "upgrading" to. I don't trust the those new AXA Advantage series either. If my Denon failed prematurely, I would just re-install the AV8801.

I don't even see myself changing my CX-A5100/MX-A5000 for probably 20 more years. But if I do, I might just get a flagship Yamaha AVR and call it a day.

The older I get, the LESS number of components and amps I want to have in my systems, except for the subs - gotta have 10 subs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Fair enough. Thanks for the info.

The question for me then becomes: does the RX-A8A justify the jump in cost over the RX-A6A. Once I convert it over into Canadian Pesos, it's ~1200$ more.

It depends on how many speakers you have. If you have a total of 9 speakers = 5.2.4 (like my 26x22x14 HT), then the A6A is all you need. If you must have 11 speakers = 7.2.4, then I would get the A8A.

Again, there are many factors involved in the decision making. Some people think separate amps are better for them, some don't want to mess with it.

And we all change our minds over time. I know I think differently TODAY compared to 5YR, 10YR, 20YR ago.

For me, I am willing to pay the difference to keep things more simple and also know that I have the "top dog flagship model".

I plan on keeping these components for 20YR, not 5YR. So paying a little extra upfront isn't that bad when you "spread it" over 20YR.