With Full Range Speakers is a sub necessary?

[Shadow_Ferret]

I'm just curious, but if I have a set of speakers, the towers do 20-20000hz and the center and rears do 22-20000hz, do I then need a subwoofer also?

Or does the subwoofer become superfluous?

 

[Privateer]

For movies a subwoofer is 100% needed.

 

[mkossler]

Bingo.

Depends on the usage - for music, you'll probably like the full range speakers better, primarily because the tracks you are listening to will rarely if ever get down to the chest-thumping 20-25Hz range. Home Theater is a piggy of a different color. You will want response that is as tactile as it is auditory, and I have yet to hear full range speakers that can provide that kind of response.

In the end, your own ears and satisfaction are what really matters.

So, much like pretty much every other question asked here, the answer is "It depends, and your mileage may vary."

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm just curious, but if I have a set of speakers, the towers do 20-20000hz and the center and rears do 22-20000hz, do I then need a subwoofer also?

Or does the subwoofer become superfluous?

Just because a speaker system is rated down to 20Hz doesn't mean it will play it very loudly, or much of the low band. And, the placement matters as well.

So, if you like to hear the lower bands, get a good sub, no matter what you are reproducing, movie or music.
Who knows, maybe you want to play the 1812 overture on Telarc. Those cannon part are amazing.

 

[j_garcia]

If you have enough power to drive each of the speakers adequately, then no, you wouldn't need a sub. You WILL have to be able to make any adjustments necessary to the speakers and likely the room, to compensate for cancellation with that many speakers capable of reproducing the same area of the bottom octave however.

 

[deftech]

I too have full range speakers (front l&r) with built in powered subs. I added a svs 25-31 pci. In my case I'm glad I did. It made a noticeable difference.

 

[markw]

A center speaker that can hit 22 hz?

now that I'd like to see.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

now that I'd like to see.

Hypothetically, of course. But then, these are manufacturer's specs and probably should be taken with a grain of salt.

I was refering to some Definitive Technologies speakers (the BP10B for fronts and the C/L/R 2000 for center and surrounds), but as I look now, they have a center, the C/L/R 3000 that states it has a freq range of 19-30000!

 

[Privateer]

When did it become acceptable for speaker companies to out right lie? I never new how bad definitive technologies BS'd about there specs, pathetic. It is to bad that people will actually buy those speakers and think that they can output those figures. I like the fact that they do not give a +- db rating to go along with it, I would think it would be some were in the -10 or -12 db range. It is almost as bad as bose.

 

[Sleestack]

When did it become acceptable for speaker companies to out right lie? I never new how bad definitive technologies BS'd about there specs, pathetic. It is to bad that people will actually buy those speakers and think that they can output those figures. I like the fact that they do not give a +- db rating to go along with it, I would think it would be some were in the -10 or -12 db range. It is almost as bad as bose.

I'm not saying that CLR 3000 can get that low, but do keep in mind that it has a built in powered subwoofer.

 

[markw]

That would sort of preclude it's being used as an example here, no?

I'm not saying that CLR 3000 can get that low, but do keep in mind that it has a built in powered subwoofer.

That's kinda like the female russian athlete needing a shave and a jock strap.

 

[jaxvon]

If you do have mains that can hit down into the low 20s with authority (IE -3dB point), then you might not need a subwoofer. However, if you plan on watching movies, you WILL need some bass managment. The Outlaw ICBM can take the sub frequencies and distribute them to your mains without any extra D/A going on.

 

[mtrycrafts]

When did it become acceptable for speaker companies to out right lie? I never new how bad definitive technologies BS'd about there specs, pathetic. It is to bad that people will actually buy those speakers and think that they can output those figures. I like the fact that they do not give a +- db rating to go along with it, I would think it would be some were in the -10 or -12 db range. It is almost as bad as bose.

They don't lie. They may not tell you under what condition they measure those specs and how? What can it put out at what distortion, etc. like S&V does on speaker ratings. Tom Nousaine does a good job. Certainly no impedance or phase data, but into the max out stuff

 

[mtrycrafts]

If you do have mains that can hit down into the low 20s with authority (IE -3dB point), then you might not need a subwoofer. However, if you plan on watching movies, you WILL need some bass managment. The Outlaw ICBM can take the sub frequencies and distribute them to your mains without any extra D/A going on.

Don't forget speaker location. Mains are limited where you can place them
A separate sub, you can move where it performs the best

 

[tbewick]

I think that for music you're best off using just a very good pair of full-range speakers. You lose stereo separation if you use only one sub. By the time you've bought two high quality subs, you could have used that money to get some even better stereo speakers.

Even for movies, I question whether a sub is worth bothering with. If you like action movies with big explosions then it might be worth getting one. According to Denon, the LFE channel is hardly ever used in most movies.

You have to have error ranges quoted in specifications, or the measurements are worthless. As far as I know, speakers with true full-range performance have to be very big, with big woofers, simply because they have to move more air around. I know that is hardly a technical explanation, but you know what I'm getting at.

 

[Hibbing]

The Prelude MTS doesn't require a sub. As a matter of fact a sub muddies the sound.

 

[deftech]

There is alot of talk re if def tech exadurates their specks or not. I have had their speakers for over 5 years and am very happy with them. I have one of their centers with a powered "sub." Most subs fire down, theirs fires up (for obvious reasons.) I will say I hear a very noticible difference with the sub turned off. Male voices sound strong, not muddy with it on. As I said in my post above I added a svs sub to the system and am glad I did. The def tech built in subs do an admirable job but the svs can shake the room if need be. I got mine used for $300.00. Best 300 I ever spent

 

[malvado78]

Could you post some pics of this thing. I've looked online but haven't found any decent pics. I would really like to see what a center with a powered sub looks like.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

As far as I know, speakers with true full-range performance have to be very big, with big woofers, simply because they have to move more air around. I know that is hardly a technical explanation, but you know what I'm getting at.

And Def Tech claims the 20hz figure on their BP10Bs using only 2 6.5in woofers!

 

[j_garcia]

The Prelude MTS doesn't require a sub. As a matter of fact a sub muddies the sound.

My buddy has the Prelude MTS and they do not extend quite deep enough. Plenty of midrange though He has a sub also, and it fills in the bottom nicely.