Why the left is against economic growth

[Ponzio]

Ponzio, I don’t know the ends and outs of the Political issues like You and some others on this thread and my post are Not a shot at You are anyone else Personally. I usually say out of threads like this
But I have been following this thread because it’s a good one. You and the others are bring up some really good points on the one’s running our nation.
Don’t know how You are anyone else feels on a lot of Subjects like Illegals, The Wall that Trumps putting up, are the sad Condition of the bill on the Trillions of dollars We owe to other nations. If I remember right the last time our nation didn’t owe for Borrowing money to run this Country was the 60’s before the Vietnam war.

Totally understandable about jumping into the fray here on some of the political threads. I've tried and failed miserably at times to stay out. The polarization in this country is bad enough without me throwing in my .02 cents. I just lose it when flat-out lies or alternate facts are nonchalantly thrown out and no one bats an eye.

It seems an intelligent discussion about the issues facing our great country nowadays, without resorting to personal put downs or snarkyness, are too few and far between. Civilized discourse has become a lost art.

BTW, I believe Clinton balanced the budget once before 9/11. The Great Reccesion of 2008 and the latest budget hasn't helped.

 

[panteragstk]

I just lose it when flat-out lies or alternate facts are nonchalantly thrown out and no one bats an eye.

I think the phrase "alternate facts" is the most politician-y thing I've ever heard.

 

[JerryLove]

BTW, I believe Clinton balanced the budget once before 9/11. The Great Reccesion of 2008 and the latest budget hasn't helped.

Let's go all the way back to Carter and see if there's a pattern you can find.

Budgets passed under Carter
1978	$59
1979	$41
1980	$74
1981	$79
Budgets passed under Reagan / Bush
1982	$128
1983	$208
1984	$185
1985	$212
1986	$221
1987	$150
1988	$155
1989	$153
1990	$221
1991	$269
1992	$290
1993	$255
Budgets passed under Clinton
1994	$203
1995	$164
1996	$107
1997	$22
1998	($69)
1999	($126)
2000	($236)
2001	($128)
Budgets passed under Bush
2002	$158
2003	$378
2004	$413
2005	$318
2006	$248
2007	$161
2008	$459
2009	$1,413
Budgets passed under Obama
2010	$1,294
2011	$1,300
2012	$1,087
2013	$679
2014	$485
2015	$438
2016	$585
2017	$665
Budgets passed under Trump
2018	$779
2019	$1,092
2020	$1,101
2021	$1,068

 

[Ponzio]

Let's go all the way back to Carter and see if there's a pattern you can find.

Budgets passed under Carter
1978	$59
1979	$41
1980	$74
1981	$79
Budgets passed under Reagan / Bush
1982	$128
1983	$208
1984	$185
1985	$212
1986	$221
1987	$150
1988	$155
1989	$153
1990	$221
1991	$269
1992	$290
1993	$255
Budgets passed under Clinton
1994	$203
1995	$164
1996	$107
1997	$22
1998	($69)
1999	($126)
2000	($236)
2001	($128)
Budgets passed under Bush
2002	$158
2003	$378
2004	$413
2005	$318
2006	$248
2007	$161
2008	$459
2009	$1,413
Budgets passed under Obama
2010	$1,294
2011	$1,300
2012	$1,087
2013	$679
2014	$485
2015	$438
2016	$585
2017	$665
Budgets passed under Trump
2018	$779
2019	$1,092
2020	$1,101
2021	$1,068

Ironic isn't it, that the supposed party of fiscal restraint has no self-control once in power.

 

[Trell]

Ironic isn't it, that the supposed party of fiscal restraint has no self-control once in power.

In speech, Mulvaney says Republicans are hypocritical on deficits:

"Acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney said Wednesday night that the Republican Party is hypocritical when it comes to deficits, according to audio of an overseas speech obtained by The Washington Post.​

​

“My party is very interested in deficits when there is a Democrat in the White House. The worst thing in the whole world is deficits when Barack Obama was the president. Then Donald Trump became president, and we’re a lot less interested as a party,” Mulvaney said at the Oxford Union to a group of several hundred people."​

 

[John Parks]

 

[lovinthehd]

In speech, Mulvaney says Republicans are hypocritical on deficits:

"Acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney said Wednesday night that the Republican Party is hypocritical when it comes to deficits, according to audio of an overseas speech obtained by The Washington Post.​

​

“My party is very interested in deficits when there is a Democrat in the White House. The worst thing in the whole world is deficits when Barack Obama was the president. Then Donald Trump became president, and we’re a lot less interested as a party,” Mulvaney said at the Oxford Union to a group of several hundred people."​

And Mulvaney is saying the media talking about coronavirus is merely a ploy to pull down the drumph....then drumph proposes further funding cuts to CDC and puts Pence in charge to help it along. LOL can't make this poop up.

 

[Trell]

View attachment 34334

You could try the option on the top right on this page

 

[John Parks]

You could try the option on the top right on this page

View attachment 34335

Morbid curiosity won’t let me look away.

 

[thrillcat]

Morbid curiosity won’t let me look away.
View attachment 34338

Thanks for that live look at the White House.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[highfigh]

You blamed the victims.



Turns out that those "useless" degrees have existed for centuries; but the problem is a new one. So I'm guessing the degrees aren't the issue.

Indeed. If they are so useless, why are we giving out loans to get them. Makes no sense.

But whatever you do, don't blame the system that gives the loans for giving bad loans... blame the kids.


Yea. Every 17-year-old must make just the right decsion of have debt for life. Seems reasonable.

And I hope nothing happens that makes you unable to continue in your career.

People need to compete. They also need to do more for themselves, rather than expect the government to give them everything.

Really? These degrees have been offered for centuries? Times and needs change- would you expect the demand for specific job skills to remain the same for centuries? That's beyond ludicrous.

Parents and schools are supposed to give kids the tools they need for their life and considering the debt is part of that. I don't expect most 17 year olds to know all of the answers but when they go for a degree that makes them feel good about themselves, rather than think about how they'll survive in the world, I have to say that somewhere, they either ignored good advice or it wasn't offered.

You must have skipped the part where I blame the system. Lenders don't care about bad loans if there's some system that guarantees payment TO them- they don't care where the money comes from. The sub-prime mortgage BS should have told you that.

WRT your last comment- thanks. However, I think people need to adapt better to things they weren't prepared for such as, not getting a job that pays well when they got a degree in something with extremely low demand.

If someone doesn't at least look on the internet for career information, they have nobody to blame but themselves. Maybe they should have looked into 'Navigating Social Media', Online Gaming' or found a book titled 'How To Live At Home For 30 Years'.

 

[highfigh]

My wife’s father went to College worked two jobs to pay for his Tuition and books. USA Colleges are the most Expensive in the world, They are Laughing all the way to the bank on your dime. Big pyramid scheme if you ask me

When did he go to college and did he have a family at the time? I know people who went to college WITH a family or, like one of my cousins, continued their education before online classes and got a second job in order to afford it- she told her young daughter that she needed to do it in order to support them because there's no guarantee that she'd remarry anytime soon.

When I was in school, I would see high school friends during breaks and they would complain that their University of Wisconsin tuition was very expensive and I would laugh after hearing that it came to $660/YEAR. They could have handled that with a freaking paper route. Now, UW schools are still less expensive than private, but financial aid IS still available, for those who seek it and I looked at the school I attended and it's over $40K/year, but averages $21K after financial aid.

 

[Gmoney]

When did he go to college and did he have a family at the time? I know people who went to college WITH a family or, like one of my cousins, continued their education before online classes and got a second job in order to afford it- she told her young daughter that she needed to do it in order to support them because there's no guarantee that she'd remarry anytime soon.

When I was in school, I would see high school friends during breaks and they would complain that their University of Wisconsin tuition was very expensive and I would laugh after hearing that it came to $660/YEAR. They could have handled that with a freaking paper route. Now, UW schools are still less expensive than private, but financial aid IS still available, for those who seek it and I looked at the school I attended and it's over $40K/year, but averages $21K after financial aid.

Back in the mid 50’s, he did live with his Parents.
But yeah I see your point things aren’t the same now. My wife’s oldest Son went to College his father paid for all of it Including giving him 1000 bucks to live on. He Graduated with a Masters in Geology, he work’s for a Oilfield company finding oil for them.
Doing very well, sad that higher Education cost so much these days. Most come out of College owning tens of thousands with a degree and can’t find employment. Down here where I live there are a Ton of Tech schools for Profit that pray on those who take out these Student loans come out of a Tech school to get a job as a CNA making 12 bucks a hour.

 

[Gmoney]

Let's go all the way back to Carter and see if there's a pattern you can find.

Budgets passed under Carter
1978	$59
1979	$41
1980	$74
1981	$79
Budgets passed under Reagan / Bush
1982	$128
1983	$208
1984	$185
1985	$212
1986	$221
1987	$150
1988	$155
1989	$153
1990	$221
1991	$269
1992	$290
1993	$255
Budgets passed under Clinton
1994	$203
1995	$164
1996	$107
1997	$22
1998	($69)
1999	($126)
2000	($236)
2001	($128)
Budgets passed under Bush
2002	$158
2003	$378
2004	$413
2005	$318
2006	$248
2007	$161
2008	$459
2009	$1,413
Budgets passed under Obama
2010	$1,294
2011	$1,300
2012	$1,087
2013	$679
2014	$485
2015	$438
2016	$585
2017	$665
Budgets passed under Trump
2018	$779
2019	$1,092
2020	$1,101
2021	$1,068

Thanks for posting this up

 

[JerryLove]

People need to compete. They also need to do more for themselves, rather than expect the government to give them everything.

I've seen that argument before. It's the poor's fault they are poor. It's the sick's fault they are sick. It's the immigrants fault they need to immigrate, and your problems are caused by the poor, sick, and immigrant; not yourself.

Sure, when we went to college, it could be paid for in real-time by working through school, something impossible now. But that's not the reason there's an issue? It's because of "kids these days".

And by all means, when I or someone like me suggest that access to education should be affordable, make sure you repeat back "expect the government to give them everything", even though you know full well that's nothing like what we said, because that way you can keep hacking that straw man.

Perhaps we need to get rid of K-12? All these kids wanting the government to give them everything.

You must have skipped the part where I blame the system. Lenders don't care about bad loans if there's some system that guarantees payment TO them- they don't care where the money comes from. The sub-prime mortgage BS should have told you that.

Yes. Because you open with the exact opposite position. You keep blaming children.

And the reason lenders lend is because of bad governance.
1) Student loans cannot be absolved by bankruptsy,
2) Student loans are covered by the government.

This likely has some similar reasons as to why the person in charge of US Student Loans for the government has a vested stake in student loan companies.

This didn't used to be the problem it is now.
It is now the problem it is now.
People didn't change.
So the problem is what *did* change.

 

[Mikado463]

a little bit of Saturday afternoon levity , if 'Sleepy Joe' gets elected lets all buy a shotgun !

 

[mtrycrafts]

a little bit of Saturday afternoon levity , if 'Sleepy Joe' gets elected lets all buy a shotgun !
...

A good one. Funny. And interesting.

 

[ellisr63]

The positives seem to far outweigh the negatives in countries where college is free or very inexpensive. So.. sure.

I mean: I'm not on some "must be free, reducing it to easily affordable just isn't good enough" or anything; both seem quite workable... what's not workable is the current system.

View attachment 34313

California used to be free for college.

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[Gmoney]

Awesome video Mikado!

 

[Trell]

a little bit of Saturday afternoon levity , if 'Sleepy Joe' gets elected lets all buy a shotgun !

F*cking morons letting people, let alone filming them for fun, use firearms without proper guidance and training.

On second thought, perhaps the Evangelical "Christians" are on to something when they claim that evolution is a hoax.