Why the left is against economic growth

[JerryLove]

So forgiving all student debt is a good idea? Maybe some way of reducing it for some but eliminating it all? So heck lets just all go to college forever and just keep on taking out loans. And If you had read my post you know I'm not a Trump fan at all in fact I'm a registered Dem. I just think Bernie takes this thing way too far. I am with you on the healthcare thing BTW. Moderation in everything

The positives seem to far outweigh the negatives in countries where college is free or very inexpensive. So.. sure.

I mean: I'm not on some "must be free, reducing it to easily affordable just isn't good enough" or anything; both seem quite workable... what's not workable is the current system.

 

[Gmoney]

So forgiving all student debt is a good idea? Maybe some way of reducing it for some but eliminating it all? So heck lets just all go to college forever and just keep on taking out loans. And If you had read my post you know I'm not a Trump fan at all in fact I'm a registered Dem. I just think Bernie takes this thing way too far. I am with you on the healthcare thing BTW. Moderation in everything

Why should the taxpayers have to take it up the assets for people going to college. If they don’t pay back the loan, every job they get Garnish their paycheck for life till the loan is paid.

 

[Ponzio]

Why should the taxpayers have to take it up the assets for people going to college. If they don’t pay back the loan, every job they get Garnish their paycheck for life till the loan is paid.

Yes, bleed them dry, till they scream! That's the old capitalist spirit.

 

[highfigh]

The positives seem to far outweigh the negatives in countries where college is free or very inexpensive. So.. sure.

I mean: I'm not on some "must be free, reducing it to easily affordable just isn't good enough" or anything; both seem quite workable... what's not workable is the current system.

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Those countries already had a system in place to pay the colleges and universities, not letting people go a$$hole and applecart in debt and then absolve them of their debt to the lenders.

The problem is that people took on a mountain of debt and, now that they can't make much money with their 'How to be completely unemployable' degrees, they want the debt to go away. If they had gone for marketable degrees, it would be very different but I see several parties at fault for this- the parents who didn't help their kids navigate the "How will their education be paid for?" issue, the students who didn't ask many questions about the future and what it might hold, the guidance councilors and schools that didn't do much/anything to teach the kids about this, the colleges/universities that didn't do anything to stop the rampant increase in cost of education and in a huge way, Congress and states, for reducing the funding for education.

I have to wonder how much financial aid these people are getting and if they ever looked at the job market before or during college. I also have to wonder why these people went to the more expensive schools when they could have spent much less.

We can't just remove the debt, it has to be paid, somehow. However, I see the education of the students as more important than the tenure of professors, especially when teaching assistants are the ones doing most of the teaching. I don't even care if colleges and universities sell corporate naming rights in order to fund their operation, as long as the cost can be affordable.

 

[JerryLove]

Why should the taxpayers have to take it up the assets for people going to college. If they don’t pay back the loan, every job they get Garnish their paycheck for life till the loan is paid.

Because we want to encourage an economy full of doctors and programmers rather that burger flippers and agricultural migrants? Especially since those people will pay out Social Security.

Of course, if you'd rather just give up and let countries with real education systems eat our lunch while we become a low-wage mess... well, you and I differ on goals then.

 

[JerryLove]

The problem is that people took on a mountain of debt and, now that they can't make much money with their 'How to be completely unemployable' degrees, they want the debt to go away.

Ahh yes.. the "poor people are lazy", "people with debt are irresponsible", "Immigrants are simultaneously taking my jobs and not working" song of everyone who blames their own struggles on others.

Certainly it has nothing to do with us spending decades telling them to go to college if they want a good job. Surely it has nothing to do with the inaffordability of college.

And man: I hope you didn't take one of those "completely unemployable" tracks, like physician, and then not succeed. You'd be up poop's creek then.

If they had gone for marketable degrees, it would be very different but I see several parties at fault for this- the parents who didn't help their kids navigate the "How will their education be paid for?" issue, the students who didn't ask many questions about the future and what it might hold, the guidance councilors and schools that didn't do much/anything to teach the kids about this, the colleges/universities that didn't do anything to stop the rampant increase in cost of education and in a huge way, Congress and states, for reducing the funding for education.

Well. Only one person is getting punished for rediculiously over-priced college. It's the adult that used to be the 18 year old forced to make decisions on bad advice that they could literally never recover from. Seems like a good foundation.

OK boomer.

I have to wonder how much financial aid these people are getting and if they ever looked at the job market before or during college. I also have to wonder why these people went to the more expensive schools when they could have spent much less.

Because they were told BS like "If you want a good job, you need to go get a 'marketable degree'"

Hrm. I just saw that phrase used by someone... who was it?

You are repeating some of the worst advice out there: https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/here-is-the-worst-advice-currently-being-given-to-millennials

 

[Gmoney]

Yes, bleed them dry, till they scream! That's the old capitalist spirit.

that’s not my point, that Student loan program is over a trillion dollars in the hole for, that You, your grandchildren and your Great great grandchildren are on the hook for. I know for a fact two women who took out student loans to go to a for Profit tech school to cut hair. They both pissed the money away never Finished the 18 month courses.

 

[thrillcat]

that’s not my point, that Student loan program is over a trillion dollars in the hole for, that You, your grandchildren and your Great great grandchildren are on the hook for. I know for a fact two women who took out student loans to go to a for Profit tech school to cut hair. They both pissed to money away never Finished the 18 month courses.

Betsy made out alright.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ponzio]

that’s not my point, that Student loan program is over a trillion dollars in the hole for, that You, your grandchildren and your Great great grandchildren are on the hook for. I know for a fact two women who took out student loans to go to a for Profit tech school to cut hair. They both pissed to money away never Finished the 18 month courses.

That may not be your point, or so you believe, but that's exactly what is happening.

This generation, and if it continues, future generations, will be paying the price for monetizing higher education. It's shameless and people like Betsey DeVoss just encourage this type of behavior.

 

[highfigh]

Ahh yes.. the "poor people are lazy", "people with debt are irresponsible", "Immigrants are simultaneously taking my jobs and not working" song of everyone who blames their own struggles on others.

Certainly it has nothing to do with us spending decades telling them to go to college if they want a good job. Surely it has nothing to do with the inaffordability of college.

And man: I hope you didn't take one of those "completely unemployable" tracks, like physician, and then not succeed. You'd be up poop's creek then.



Well. Only one person is getting punished for rediculiously over-priced college. It's the adult that used to be the 18 year old forced to make decisions on bad advice that they could literally never recover from. Seems like a good foundation.

OK boomer.


Because they were told BS like "If you want a good job, you need to go get a 'marketable degree'"

Hrm. I just saw that phrase used by someone... who was it?

You are repeating some of the worst advice out there: https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/here-is-the-worst-advice-currently-being-given-to-millennials

Who the eff wrote anything about poor people, let alone being lazy or about immigrants?

You really need to read the words without putting your own spin on things. Seriously.

You even wrote 'marketable' in one of your comments- IF someone goes to college for a degree, they do need to have an idea about how they will earn money after. If it's a degree in Drawing and Painting, they may get a job with good pay but it's less likely than going for AND being better than average if Finance, Engineering, medicine, etc are the fields of study.

Good jobs are out there with and without a degree, but people need to be flexible and if their desired job isn't available immediately, they need to take something that will work until it is. It's not absolutely necessary to get a degree or go to college and I agree with you about how it was sold for too long but that also falls under the failure of parents and schools to inform the future workers about reality.

 

[Gmoney]

That may not be your point, or so you believe, but that's exactly what is happening.

This generation, and if it continues, future generations, will be paying the price for monetizing higher education. It's shameless and people like Betsey DeVoss just encourage this type of behavior.

Don’t know how you are anyone really feels about the way our Federal government just piss’s away our tax dollar’s. I know when I looked at my paycheck every week and 1.000.00 bucks came out of it every week I sure didn’t go, Oh but that’s okay my tax’s dollars are going to people going to school on my a Dime! that most well never pay back. Yeah let’s just hand out free money to every Illegal here now. My wife’s father went to College worked two jobs to pay for his Tuition and books. USA Colleges are the most Expensive in the world, They are Laughing all the way to the bank on your dime. Big pyramid scheme if you ask me

 

[Ponzio]

USA Colleges are the most Expensive in the world, They are Laughing all the way to the bank on your dime. Big pyramid scheme if you ask me

On this we can agree.

 

[JerryLove]

Who the eff wrote anything about poor people, let alone being lazy or about immigrants?

You really need to read the words without putting your own spin on things. Seriously.

You blamed the victims.

You even wrote 'marketable' in one of your comments- IF someone goes to college for a degree, they do need to have an idea about how they will earn money after. If it's a degree in Drawing and Painting, they may get a job with good pay but it's less likely than going for AND being better than average if Finance, Engineering, medicine, etc are the fields of study.

Turns out that those "useless" degrees have existed for centuries; but the problem is a new one. So I'm guessing the degrees aren't the issue.

Indeed. If they are so useless, why are we giving out loans to get them. Makes no sense.

But whatever you do, don't blame the system that gives the loans for giving bad loans... blame the kids.

Good jobs are out there with and without a degree, but people need to be flexible and if their desired job isn't available immediately, they need to take something that will work until it is. It's not absolutely necessary to get a degree or go to college and I agree with you about how it was sold for too long but that also falls under the failure of parents and schools to inform the future workers about reality.

Yea. Every 17-year-old must make just the right decsion of have debt for life. Seems reasonable.

And I hope nothing happens that makes you unable to continue in your career.

 

[Gmoney]

On this we can agree.

Ponzio, I don’t know the ends and outs of the Political issues like You and some others on this thread and my post are Not a shot at You are anyone else Personally. I usually say out of threads like this
But I have been following this thread because it’s a good one. You and the others are bring up some really good points on the one’s running our nation.
Don’t know how You are anyone else feels on a lot of Subjects like Illegals, The Wall that Trumps putting up, are the sad Condition of the bill on the Trillions of dollars We owe to other nations. If I remember right the last time our nation didn’t owe for Borrowing money to run this Country was the 60’s before the Vietnam war.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Just for you, Jerry. Now you have to read this article very carefully to get what Schmidt is really saying, which is not your strong point, but the title made me think of you and chuckle anyway.

Eric Schmidt: I Used to Run Google. Silicon Valley Could Lose to China. (Published 2020)

We can’t win the technology wars without the federal government’s help.

www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Trell]

Just for you, Jerry. Now you have to read this article very carefully to get what Schmidt is really saying, which is not your strong point, but the title made me think of you and chuckle anyway.

Eric Schmidt: I Used to Run Google. Silicon Valley Could Lose to China. (Published 2020)

We can’t win the technology wars without the federal government’s help.

www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

You're still butthurt that he tore apart your specious arguments and pushed your nose in it, repeatedly? I found that part of the thread quite entertaining

 

[Irvrobinson]

You're still butthurt that he tore apart your specious arguments and pushed your nose in it, repeatedly? I found that part of the thread quite entertaining

Not at all. You and I have been on the opposite sides of healthcare nationalization forever. I just got tired of arguing with someone who twists what everyone is saying around to the point where you don't even know what you're arguing about. What do you want to do Trell, go back to arguing about how the US should be more like Norway? Forget it.

 

[Trell]

Not at all. You and I have been on the opposite sides of healthcare nationalization forever. I just got tired of arguing with someone who twists what everyone is saying around to the point where you don't even know what you're arguing about. What do you want to do Trell, go back to arguing about how the US should be more like Norway? Forget it.

Erm, you're the one that brings up Norway all the time, not me.

 

[JerryLove]

Just for you, Jerry. Now you have to read this article very carefully to get what Schmidt is really saying, which is not your strong point, but the title made me think of you and chuckle anyway.

Eric Schmidt: I Used to Run Google. Silicon Valley Could Lose to China. (Published 2020)

We can’t win the technology wars without the federal government’s help.

www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

I'm not interested in having a discussion with an article.

If the article author would like to come here and discuss it, I may well get involved.

Otherwise, I'll stick to discussing assertions by people here, and letting them support those assertions. People are welcome to use external data and scholarly work to support claims of fact; but not as a proxie for having to defend their own position.

 

[JerryLove]

This is from part of a "101" thread I once posted:

Discuss Your Own Thoughts: I’m not here to argue with drdino, and you are not here to argue with talkorigins. While citing is very good (see the previous entry), cutting and pasting an argument from someone else is bad. Make sure that you understand and agree with what you are typing and can discuss it, otherwise you are making an Appeal to Authority and probably not following the One Point at a Time guideline either.

Avoid Non-responsive Answers:

The Burden of Proof The burden of Proof falls on the person with the positive affermation. Something which is unproven is, from a logical standpoint, false. Until something is either proven true, or accepted as convention; siproofs are unneccessairy. "Bigfoot is real" would be a positive affirmation, "Bigfoot is false" would be a negative one.

Citing vs Copying We are not (by and large) hebrew scholars; nor are we astronomers. As laymen, we rely on the research of others. But there is a real difference between citing the research of another person and copying their conclusion. If you want to know what the Bible says in its original hebrew, a hebrew concordance is a good reference. If you want to know what a passage means; that you have to support. Similarly, if you want to reference measured dust levels, that's a cite. If you want to claim what the proves, that's a conclusion and you must be able to support it.