Tube amps?

[highfihoney]

I have no desire to change my HT set-up. I would not mind hooking-up a Krell KAV-500 ($6995.00) to see what all the fuss is about with this high priced stuff.

On the other hand, I want a dedicated 2-channel system. Seperate from my HT.

i agree with everything your wanting to do,it's a lot of fun to explore the hobby & to build system's & hear the end result,there's more to our hobby than just spec's & watt vs dollar ratio's.

tube's do not add anything to the signal path,tube's are the fore runner's of transistor's.

if your interested in building a high end 2 channel system weather it be tube,solid state or a mix of both i can help,ive tried a good portion of the high end 2 channel gear out there & im pretty current with resale price's,one of the redeeming thing's about high end gear is that if you buy smart & wait on real deal's you can easily get your investment back should you decide to sell.

there's something special about having a tube system & the way it draw's you into the music & make's listening longer easy & alot of fun,it's kind of like looking into a see through system & seeing it work while you listen,tube fanatic's sometime's describe this as the magic of tube's & it's real,to me it's kind of like building an erector set hifi system for big kid's

the most fun i have ever had with any system was with all tube's,we had a larger home then & i was able to have a dedicated 2 channel listening room,we had klipsch corner horn's for speaker's,all amp's were tube,the preamp was tube & so was the cd player,not only was that a fantastic sounding rig with awesome dynamic's it was also a thing of beauty to see all light up,kinda like dr frankenstien's laboratory for music.

if your interested in building a dedicated 2 channel rig then why not,there's nothing but fun to be gained from it & that's what this hobby should be all about.

enjoy your day.

 

[kgturner]

zumbo:

based upon your first post, it looks like your looking to spend about $2500 on a tube amplifier. i suggest you check out a pair of aes sixpacs (http://www.sixpacs.com). they're 50 watt triode monoblocks using 6 EL34 tubes per side. aes is a subsidiary of cary audio and the sixpacs are basically smaller and MUCH CHEAPER versions of the cary audio V-12R monoblocks.

i was in your position 2 years ago. i purchased a pair just to see what tubes were all about. i called beforehand and was assured that i could return them for a full refund less shipping if i wasn't pleased. previous to this purchase, my two channel setup was a pair of aragon palladium ii monoblocks and an aragon soundstage for ht/pre duty. i had a pioneer dv-c302d as my cd player/dvd player (which i later upgraded to a denon dvd-5900).

the sixpacs sounded signifcantly better to me than the aragon at most volume levels. at the ear bleed volumes, the aragon won hands down (50 watts vs. 400 watts). the aragon also had more punch in the bass department. in the end, the sixpacs didn't rock as hard as i wanted, so i returned them. still, the sound of the midrange and upper frequencies of the sixpacs had me hooked. i eventually sold the palladiums and purchased a pair of cary audio slm-200 monos (130 watts triode) which are much more powerful sounding than the sixpacs (though still not the chest-thumping ability of the aragons). this is partially due to my speakers efficiency, but i'm looking to rectify this matter by upgrading to a speaker with high efficiency and more tube friendly impedance curve in the future.

the moral, i suppose is, you can ask on here all day long how tubes will sound or you can try them out for yourself and be the final judge. in my experience, trying to accurately verbalize the sound of tubes to someone who had never heard them is like trying to explain what a beautiful mountain range looks like to a blind person. sure you can string some words together that might give an decent description, but those words won't do justice to the emotional event of actually witnessing the mountain range. good luck.

kevin t

 

[VS540]

Some of the finest two channel stereo systems that I have heard have been tube based. I strongly reject the notion that a tube based system can not be accurate and/or low distortion. Do not let the naysayers crush your dream. just my two cents.

I couldn't agree more!

DO NOT LISTEN to the people saying tubes suck, that they sound muffled, have no detail, are distorted, etc. Solid state amps are fine for HT, but for 2 channel that has that huge soundstage, pin point imaging, the finest detail and that wonderful 3D effect...tubes are where it's at.

If tubes sucked then many of the audiophiles who dump hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless hours of listening into their speakers wouldn't be using tubes either.

Also don't just use a tube amp, try a tube integrated or tube separates.

Have a look at:
Prima Luna
Tube Audio Design
Cayin
Jolida
Melody (via Onix)
Antique Sound Lab
Cary Audio
Just to name a few in the price range you mentioned.

 

[buckyg4]

I just recently purchased a used Eastern Electric Minimax Pre for about $500 for my McCormack DNA-1 SS amp and its a wonderful sound. The tubes that came with the unit didn't sound great, but I have a friend who has a large stash of NOS tubes and I found a combination that sounded wonderful. This unit has alot of great reviews so I thought it was worth a shot at $500. They also have a matching CD player, amp etc..

 

[jeffsg4mac]

If tubes sucked then many of the audiophiles who dump hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless hours of listening into their speakers wouldn't be using tubes either.

Yet these are the same golden eared audiophools who would tell you they can hear the difference between a set of cables and speaker wire. Give me a break. Zumbo, don't buy into it. I have NEVER heard a tube amp that even came close to sounding as good as a Krell or a Levinson amp. No way, no how. Not even close. Zumbo, forget all that pre amp jazz too. You want to know how to tell if a preamp is accurate to the source. It is real easy to do. First listen to the CD player direct to the amp, nothing in between. Then put the preamp in and play back at the same level. If you hear a difference then the preamp is adding something to the signal. Period.

 

[kgturner]

that's right, zumbo. listen to jeff. only he knows how you should spend your money. i failed to recognize you were not intelligent enough to decide for yourself. i was under the impression that this was still a free society where citizens could choose what amplifier they wanted to own.

kevin t

 

[VS540]

Yet these are the same golden eared audiophools who would tell you they can hear the difference between a set of cables and speaker wire. Give me a break. Zumbo, don't buy into it. I have NEVER heard a tube amp that even came close to sounding as good as a Krell or a Levinson amp. No way, no how. Not even close. Zumbo, forget all that pre amp jazz too. You want to know how to tell if a preamp is accurate to the source. It is real easy to do. First listen to the CD player direct to the amp, nothing in between. Then put the preamp in and play back at the same level. If you hear a difference then the preamp is adding something to the signal. Period.

You can believe what you want and I'll believe what I hear...

 

[jeffsg4mac]

that's right, zumbo. listen to jeff. only he knows how you should spend your money. i failed to recognize you were not intelligent enough to decide for yourself. i was under the impression that this was still a free society where citizens could choose what amplifier they wanted to own.

kevin t

Hmmm., I don't remember giving anyone orders to do anything. These are my opinions based on my experiences and my knowledge of audio. I can give Zumbo all the advice I choose, and he can choose to accept it or not. You are correct with one thing, it is still a free society, so chill out and relax.

 

[kgturner]

"YOU IDIOT, TUBES SOUND LIKE SHEET MAN, DONT WASTE YOUR TIME.

whether you choose to admit it or not, jeff, this statement sounds like a glaring "order" to me. smiley face or not. telling someone not to waste their time and that tubes sound like "sheet" sounds pretty much to me like how he should spend his money.

kevin t

 

[jeffsg4mac]

whether you choose to admit it or not, jeff, this statement sounds like a glaring "order" to me. smiley face or not. telling someone not to waste their time and that tubes sound like "sheet" sounds pretty much to me like how he should spend his money.

kevin t

Glaring order, I don't think so. I guess you don't have a sense of humor and have no idea who ren hoek is too. Have you ever heard of SARCASM?. Jeesh people lighten up it's just audio not nuclear science. I have probably heard well over a hundred different tube amps and was never impressed enough to want one. I have also heard many hundreds of solid state amps and many of them I would love to have. I have some idea of what I am talking about. I am not some pimple faced teenager who just bought his first stereo. All my pimples have moved to my back now

 

[mtrycrafts]

Glaring order, I don't think so.

Agreed !!!

Telling someone not to waste their time on something is not an order, not in my book.
Some beliefs are so ingrained that anything against it seems like an attack. Oh, well

 

[majorloser]

LOL, Yes, to get all the subtle nuances it has to be genuine asthma hound Chihuahua

I'm sorry, but would cat turds be a reasonable substitute or would that cause unfavorable coloring of the sonic experience?

 

[majorloser]

Tube Truth

I think somebody ought to shed some light on tube life and replacement.

highfihoney, why don't you explain to zumbo how tubes are matched sets and are replaced as sets when one burns out. Also, there's not many (if any) tube manufactures in the USA today. Most are imported. They may say they're made here, but that's just final assembly.

As far as pro equipment, Mesa Boogie makes some nice tube amps but like what was said before, who wants to tour with tubes?

 

[zumbo]

I am not some pimple faced teenager who just bought his first stereo. All my pimples have moved to my back now

I hear you on that. Everyone has an opinion. I am thankful for this site, and it's members. I know how passionate I am about my MB Quarts, and how shocked people are when they hear them. I have owned many speaker brands through the years, and these are the finest I have owned. My opinion comes with twenty years of ownership experience, along with having heard many, many systems. So, I can see why people get so worked-up. I have heard some tube gear, but can't honestly tell you what I remember. I do appreciate every opinion, and discussion.

 

[brian32672]

Zumbo, I was kinda surprised you did not know about transistors (you are pretty knowledgable), anyhow for a bit more info on transistors (specifically mosfets)
Here is a link you may like to read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET
I recall reading on mosfets 10+ years ago, yeah I was really into car audio. And at that time decided on reading a few books.
The only thing I read (other than Harry Potter books) is True crime books, electrical concept books, and electrical conductors books.
I know only minimum on Home Theater audio, but have been quite avid in it lately.

EDIT:: My only real bad thing is that I was never a person that retained info well from books (some people are book smart, but know nothing of pratical everyday actual use), and now I am even worse. It could be from either age is catching up, or a 5 story fall onto my head did not help.
I have read quite a bit, but was always a hands on type of guy.
So usually what I know, is not from books, but actual use.

Jeesh people lighten up it's just audio not nuclear science.

Hmm, are you sure about that, I am still debating that some people know everything. I was thinking of asking how many brain surgeons are here, as well a rocket scientists. J/K.

I have probably heard well over a hundred different tube amps and was never impressed enough to want one. I have also heard many hundreds of solid state amps and many of them I would love to have. I have some idea of what I am talking about. I am not some pimple faced teenager who just bought his first stereo. All my pimples have moved to my back now

Me on the other hand, I have only listened to a handful of tube based gear.
I will say that I was never turned on or off from them. They did not give me any glaring reasons to buy into.
I don't recall anything with tubes so special in realization that solid state IMO has.
I have heard quite a few solid state, that I would love to get.....

Hmm, the pimple thing... Yeah I too have slightly that problem.
I never really had pimples in my teenage years, but now every once in awhile will get some disgusting ones on my back.
Yeah, for you younger fellows - it is gross...

 

[highfihoney]

I think somebody ought to shed some light on tube life and replacement.

highfihoney, why don't you explain to zumbo how tubes are matched sets and are replaced as sets when one burns out. Also, there's not many (if any) tube manufactures in the USA today. Most are imported. They may say they're made here, but that's just final assembly.

As far as pro equipment, Mesa Boogie makes some nice tube amps but like what was said before, who wants to tour with tubes?

wow mesa,i forgot all about them until i read your post,ive alway's wanted to see & hear a mesa baron in person,man is that one cool looking amplifier,i love the look of that amp.

tube lifespan is dependant on heat & bias,if you have a self biasing amp that is allowed to stay cool you will have a lot more tube life(between 2,000 & 4,000 hour's) depending on the tube's & how hard the amp is driven but if heat become's a problem or if you allow the tube's to get too far out of bias you could loose them all very quickly.

your right about tube's being replaced in matched set's & the whole oversea's deal too,most are made in china & yugoslovia then branded with various thing's,even mcintosh(made in usa) branded tube's are chineese,unless you buy NOS tube's & are willing to take a huge hit in the wallet your getting overseas manufacturing.

you could buy a used krell amp for the same price a matched quad of genelex NOS gold lion kt88's are selling for.

 

[zumbo]

Zumbo, I was kinda surprised you did not know about transistors (you are pretty knowledgable)

I have no technical experience. I come in here to ask for that. I have some general car audio wiring knowledge, and some home wiring knowledge. I have heard and owned many brands of equipment. I know which ones have been reliable for me, and which ones perform the best(at a certain level). I also visit many audio sites during the day, and try to keep-up with the newest trends, and best deals. Then I come in here and try to help newbies with connection problems, or locate a good deal. It's all fun for me.

 

[kgturner]

I have probably heard well over a hundred different tube amps and was never impressed enough to want one.

you never stated this anywhere else in this thread. much like everyone else bashing tubes. people throw out numbers and distortion figures as to why a person shouldn't buy into tubes, but they rarely recommend that other people experience things for themselves. i could care less what the man buys, but shouldn't he test drive the car before he buys it? however, i am not trying to single you out with this post as i re-read most of this thread and noted that you actually told him to try it for himself so i apologize if i've come off harsh.

and yes, i know who ren & stimpy are. i had the pleasure of meeting bob camp at a comic book convention more years ago than i care to count. now, i'm gonna go stuff some magic nose goblins in my ears and listen to my tube amps.

kevin t

 

[jeffsg4mac]

and yes, i know who ren & stimpy are. i had the pleasure of meeting bob camp at a comic book convention more years ago than i care to count. now, i'm gonna go stuff some magic nose goblins in my ears and listen to my tube amps.

kevin t

No need to apologize at all Very cool, I wish they never would have let him leave the show. They were never the same after.

 

[W_Harding]

your right about tube's being replaced in matched set's & the whole oversea's deal too,most are made in china & yugoslovia then branded with various thing's,even mcintosh(made in usa) branded tube's are chineese,unless you buy NOS tube's & are willing to take a huge hit in the wallet your getting overseas manufacturing.

you could buy a used krell amp for the same price a matched quad of genelex NOS gold lion kt88's are selling for.

The Russians also make tubes. The Svetlana and Sovtek tubes are well known and considered high quality.

Matching output stage tubes is desirable although not necessary depending on the amplifier and its bias adjustment capability. The same holds true for transistor replacement in solid state amplifiers.

Buying New Old Stock (NOS) tubes can be expensive. Modern replacements will often work as well or better as NOS and are more reasonably priced. If replacement tube pricing is a concern when you buy your tube amplifier, look for amplifiers that use common tube types. The 12AX7, 12AU7, 12AT7, 6DJ8, 6V6GT, 6BQ5/EL84, 6CA7/EL34 and 6L6GT audio tube types among others are common and easy to obtain at reasonable prices. Fortunately, many good, high quality amplifiers are made and have been made using these popular tubes. Do not let the fear of expensive tube replacement deter you from buying and using a tube amplifier.