Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Rip Van Woofer said:
I am shocked...yes, shocked!...that no one, not even Chris, mentioned one of the most compelling advantages of tube amps:

They do double duty as space heaters! Maybe even as hot plates. I have heard that you could fry an egg atop a Pass Aleph. Just the thing when you're in the doghouse with the Mrs...
Hey Rip, whatcha think about this Ashly stuff?
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
WmAx said:
Look through for what purpose?

-Chris
Just thought you might be able to find the truth in the specs. I know how companies can print a certain spec under certain conditions that are not "real world". Just thought you might help. Sorry to inconvience you.:( Thanks for the help thus far.
 
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WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
zumbo said:
Just thought you might be able to find the truth in the specs. I know how companies can print a certain spec under certain conditions that are not "real world". Just thought you might help. Sorry to inconvience you.:( Thanks for the help thus far.
I 'skimmed' through the manual, I did not see anything unusual.

-Chris
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
zumbo said:
Hey Rip, whatcha think about this Ashly stuff?
There's no way to judge the truth of printed specs without testing the unit. I see no reason why they'd lie. But remember, all manuals and published material for the end user has input from marketing people, not just engineers! But they're less likely to fudge for a pro clientele who are more likely to catch such things.

In general it looks like a lot of good pro gear, meaning 1) power up the wazoo at a very good dollar per watt ratio, 2) features the average home user will never use and probably won't understand and 3) built like a brick s**t house!

Only thing I'd worry about is noise from the cooling fan. Usually pro gear is mounted in racks well away from the monitoring/control room or audience so fan noise is a non issue, rather than in the same room as the listener like in most home situations.

BTW, the class D, H, and other "exotic" classes are often used in pro gear because they eliminate heavy transformer power supplies in favor of smaller, lighter switching supplies and such. Weight is a big issue with gear for touring and it's worth trading pounds for ultra low distortion specs that won't be noticed in a stadium with 50,000 screaming fans.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
WmAx said:
I 'skimmed' through the manual, I did not see anything unusual.

-Chris
So, either it can't produce the power it states, or they are lying about the class A circuitry?
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Rip Van Woofer said:
Only thing I'd worry about is noise from the cooling fan. Usually pro gear is mounted in racks well away from the monitoring/control room or audience so fan noise is a non issue, rather than in the same room as the listener like in most home situations.
The FTX models "approved for HT applications" state to have whisper quiet colling fans. Looks very interesting.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
zumbo said:
So, either it can't produce the power it states, or they are lying about the class A circuitry?
I did not find a single instance of reference to class A output amplification in the MFA-8000 manual. Nor did I see it when I skimmed the Ashley website; I only noticed reference to class A 'driver' and class A 'front end', and that was on the Ashely web site in reference to a couple of other amplifiers, which should only relate to the input buffer stage(s). The retail site link you are quoting may have just made a typo.

-Chris
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
It is very doubtful that a pro amp would use pure Class A output stages since Class A is very inefficient and runs hot. Both are big negatives for pro gear. You do not want your equipment rack/closet to double as an oven or draw more current than necessary. The electric bills for a studio are high enough without adding that to the mix.

The Class A drivers that Chris talks about are low-wattage stages where the heat/inefficiency are less of an issue. My DIY amps use Class A drivers and the transistors just get warm even without heatsinks. But the output stages - the part that supplies the rated wattage to the speakers - run in Class AB.

Anyway, the problem of the underlying distortion mechanism (called "crossover distortion") of Class B and AB output stages that caused audiophiles to consider Class A 'superior' with some justification back in the day was solved long ago and for all practical purposes eliminating it is trivial in modern amp design.

Good to hear about the fan not being a problem.

Bottom line: if the Ashly units look good to you and fit your budget, buy them! They'll more than do the job and last forever. You will never submit them to the abuse that is normal for pro equipment. You'll fry your speakers first!
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
WmAx said:
I did not find a single instance of reference to class A output amplification in the MFA-8000 manual. Nor did I see it when I skimmed the Ashley website; I only noticed reference to class A 'driver' and class A 'front end', and that was on the Ashely web site in reference to a couple of other amplifiers, which should only relate to the input buffer stage(s). The retail site link you are quoting may have just made a typo.

-Chris
Thanks. I see that.:)

So, MOS-FETs are not necessarily class A?:confused:
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
zumbo said:
Thanks. I see that.:)

So, MOS-FETs are not necessarily class A?:confused:
Mos-fet is a type of transistor. It does not denote class of operation of the amplifier.

-Chris
 
P

pearsall001

Full Audioholic
Calling all Audioholics / Tube & SS heads

Yo Fellows, I'm telling ya, do not hesitate to try the Behringer A500 amp. It is one outstanding piece of gear. After reading the posts from Chris & the review from The Audio Critic I had to give them a shot. By the way Chris you're info has been quite helpful, you are extremely well versed in the workings of audio gear, keep up the good work! As far as the performance of the A500 it is extremely dynamic, powerful, absolutety quiet (no fan) runs warm to the touch only when pushed hard - I just had to do it. It didn't even break a sweat running my AAD 2001 monitors to levels I would never do otherwise. I bought 2 & run them in mono bridged mode. My speakers are in heaven, they never sounded better & I'm not kidding. Get off the high priced roller coaster ride & give these guys a try. You won't be disappointed. I also have 2 other posts about the A500 amps in the AMPS, PRE-PRO & RECEIVER section. Now back to my music!!
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
WmAx said:
Mos-fet is a type of transistor. It does not denote class of operation of the amplifier.

-Chris
I figured that was a stupid question. But, while I had you, I figured I would ask. Thanks for all your help.;)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
zumbo said:
So, this is like "Harley Davidson is the best".:eek:

I have no idea about that but I surely notice its unique sound when one goes by. :D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
MacManNM said:
I'm really surprised at you guys out there, normally you would have shredded someone that started a thread like this! Must be that it's the holidays.:confused:

Yes :D A free pass week, more or less.
Some tube designs are very low in THD, not single ended ones or all triode designs, no feedback, etc. Besides, I cannot afford too many red marks;)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
MacManNM said:
Aren't those old Macs pentode designs?? They are pretty good, and 60 watts. I bet the specs are decent as well.
 
W

woodyf

Audiophyte
The Ashly pics on that link, is from my my Ashly FTE-2000-M, which is Identical in spec to the Ashly FTX-2001, other than the 2000 being 5lbs heavier. The Ashly FTE-2000-M is 65lbs.

Rip Van Woofer said:
Good to hear about the fan not being a problem.!
I can assure you that the single fan are hardly noticeable.

Rip Van Woofer said:
It is very doubtful that a pro amp would use pure Class A output stages since Class A is very inefficient and runs hot. Both are big negatives for pro gear. You do not want your equipment rack/closet to double as an oven or draw more current than necessary. The electric bills for a studio are high enough without adding that to the mix..
My amp is located in a RPTV entertainment unit, with no holes cut out on the back, with another amp on top of it.(powers my sub) It runs less hot than my HK235 driving my center and my surrounds. It is barely warm to the touch vs. the HK being HOT! It is definitely not an oven.

I added a pic of the location of my amp on my web page.
http://groups.msn.com/barley/frontdiffoilseals.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=146

As for the sound, it is astonishing the difference, from very low levels, right to painfully loud, my speakers have more dynamic range, improvements on bass, mids, and a bit on highs.

As for Behringer vs. Ashly, I have tried both. My personal preference was the Ashly. Better bass control, and more dynamic. I am not saying it's a better amp, just that >>>I<<< liked the sound better.

The Ashly is also THX approved gear for Cinema theaters and Home theaters.
http://www.thx.com/mod/techLib/pdf/ApprovedEquipList.pdf
http://techshop.earthlink.net/p20404:S1415003
 
W

woodyf

Audiophyte
How would I test the amp or look to see if it is a Class A or AB.

I will email Ashly and try to get a straight answer.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
WmAx said:
But tubes sure are pretty... :)

-Chris

I would think this beauty is in the beholder and beauty comes with time exposure to it. Tubes been around for a very long time and has become beautiful, especially some of today's artistic designs.
Maybe it should be only on display ion peoples homes without being listened to? LOL:D Like another art object
 
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