Towers vs Bookshelf/subs

[Irvrobinson]

I think if I TAPER down the dose - stop listening to my system for 3 months, then listen to the towers, I might find them more pleasing.

Not necessarily. I suspect you have the same problem in your room that I do in mine, that the positions of your towers are just flat-out bad for bass, and the additional bass sources from the subs smooth out the room modes and suck-outs. I also suspect that you like to run your subs rather hot, and that if you saw your listening seat response curve you would be surprised.

I've heard the Salon2s and the 802Ds in rooms that support bass well, and both have very powerful and extended bass, at least for music. It is difficult to imagine that wouldn't satisfy, if that bass quality could be achieved in every room.

Nonetheless, for all of my caveats I too am sold on using a sub, even with full-range towers, and I doubt I'll ever be without one again. The placement of the towers for best imaging and mid-frequency flatness is unlikely to be the optimal placement for bass. As you said earlier, running the towers full-range can be like having three or more subs in the room, which is a well-proven means of smoothing in-room bass response.

 

[gene]

Yeah, I think when we are used to a certain preference level of bass, it's difficult to change to anything else.

Yesterday I was listening to the Salon2, 802D2, and Orion3 in Pure Direct 2.0. Man, I was disappointed to say the least. It was like, "What the heck happen to my bass?"

It's like an addiction and switching to 2.0 towers causes immediate withdrawals.

I think if I TAPPER down the dose - stop listening to my system for 3 months, then listen to the towers, I might find them more pleasing.

Or just bite the bullet and get yourself some Status 8Ts and a couple of 1kwatt+ monoblocks. No need for powered subs then I seriously run mine full range with LFE going to them and it rattles the core of my essence in my 6,000ft^3 room. I still use my dual DD-15+s to smooth out the bass across all the listening seats but they really aren't needed.

 

[exlabdriver]

I find that it is way too easy to overdo the bass, although my 8 inchers never turn muddy in my irregularly shaped room.

My Tube Integrated Amp has no controls of any kind except for a manual Volume Control, so I've set the subs by ear where it sounds really good and then back them off a bit. There is such a variance in the way that CD/SACDs are recorded and mixed, that I use the excellent TELARC Spyro Gyra 'Good to Go-Go' SACD that is uncompressed, has great up front percussion and lots of electric bass content. Once that one sounds right, I just leave them at that level.

My modest system has no remote controls and because many recordings where the low end is recessed or they are overly compressed, it makes me want to get my butt up off the couch & crank the subs up a bit more, but I'm too lazy, ha! So they stay that way and that's appropriate I guess...

TAM

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Or just bite the bullet and get yourself some Status 8Ts and a couple of 1kwatt+ monoblocks. No need for powered subs then I seriously run mine full range with LFE going to them and it rattles the core of my essence in my 6,000ft^3 room. I still use my dual DD-15+s to smooth out the bass across all the listening seats but they really aren't needed.

That would be nirvana.

But out of my price range... Well maybe if I can sell most of my speakers to fund it.

Maybe RBH will sell the bass module of the T8 separately like they did with the SX-1010. What would they call it - the SX-101010?

Shane Rich said he would try to do a CEA-subwoofer measurement of the SX-1010. It would be cool to see the same of the 8T subwoofer cabinet.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not necessarily. I suspect you have the same problem in your room that I do in mine, that the positions of your towers are just flat-out bad for bass, and the additional bass sources from the subs smooth out the room modes and suck-outs. I also suspect that you like to run your subs rather hot, and that if you saw your listening seat response curve you would be surprised.

I've heard the Salon2s and the 802Ds in rooms that support bass well, and both have very powerful and extended bass, at least for music. It is difficult to imagine that wouldn't satisfy, if that bass quality could be achieved in every room.

Nonetheless, for all of my caveats I too am sold on using a sub, even with full-range towers, and I doubt I'll ever be without one again. The placement of the towers for best imaging and mid-frequency flatness is unlikely to be the optimal placement for bass. As you said earlier, running the towers full-range can be like having three or more subs in the room, which is a well-proven means of smoothing in-room bass response.

Anything is possible.

But I recall that the bass on the Salon2 in my room was fantastic about a year ago. If I turn the volume up, they still can shake the walls. But just not as even/balanced as with multiple subs.

I've heard the Salon2 and 800D in other places as well. The bass is good, just not as good as subwoofer bass.

 

[shadyJ]

It's OK to like your bass extra hot. Just admit it. It's the 2000s man, there is no shame in that, we won't judge you, bro.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's OK to like your bass extra hot. Just admit it. It's the 2000s man, there is no shame in that, we won't judge you, bro.

I like it hot alright.

I am a bass addict for sure.

Makes my blood boil and leaves me breathless.

Although I had to seriously turn down the subwoofer levels watching that stupid movie "Red Dawn"! Damn, that was a retarded movie. But the bass was just ridiculously scary loud.

 

[shadyJ]

When I first set up my home theater with subs that can really dig deep, I set out to watch some of these movies with reputations for massive deep bass sound tracks. Movies like Iron Man 2, The Incredible Hulk, and so on. I always regretted it. I don't care how hard the sound track hits with bass, its not worth being insulted for two hours. Now I am surrounded by subwoofers, but the only movies I watch are older movies and Criterion type films, none of which have any real bass. If it weren't for music, I would have just sold most of the subs. There are hardly any movies with powerful bass which aren't unbearably juvenile.

 

[chaluga]

When I first set up my home theater with subs that can really dig deep, I set out to watch some of these movies with reputations for massive deep bass sound tracks. Movies like Iron Man 2, The Incredible Hulk, and so on. I always regretted it. I don't care how hard the sound track hits with bass, its not worth being insulted for two hours. Now I am surrounded by subwoofers, but the only movies I watch are older movies and Criterion type films, none of which have any real bass. If it weren't for music, I would have just sold most of the subs. There are hardly any movies with powerful bass which aren't unbearably juvenile.

That is highly subjective shady
Depends on what you like for movies , your access to movies , and your job. My.job is incredibly mentally draining and sometimes a action movie like iron man is perfect . I will agree that their is lots of crap to sift through but I always find 1-2 movies a month that put my sub through its paces and is a good movie.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I love bass for both music and videos, but not necessarily action flicks. I actually prefer TV series with good bass.

 

[gene]

That would be nirvana.

But out of my price range... Well maybe if I can sell most of my speakers to fund it.

Maybe RBH will sell the bass module of the T8 separately like they did with the SX-1010. What would they call it - the SX-101010?

Shane Rich said he would try to do a CEA-subwoofer measurement of the SX-1010. It would be cool to see the same of the 8T subwoofer cabinet.

If you had the option of selling all of your speakers in favor of a pair of T8s, I'd do it!

Shane is going to be sending an SX-1212/R to Josh for review and CEA testing next month I believe. I am told the 1212/R has nearly the same output as a T8 sub would, though I'm not sure how different it would sound if compared side by side. Personally I love the way the T8 subs integrate into my room with the 3 drivers firing front and 2 ports rear. Craziness!

 

[fmw]

I haven't caught on to the bass mania, I guess. I have a modest 12" sub and it performs fine. I use it with music but it is barely audible. It is just to fill the bass slightly. My main speakers have enough bass to suit me. The little sub shakes the walls with the few seconds of loud LFE action movies normally have. I don't have any desire for more. I watch movies for the movie, not the LFE. I guess that's what happens to a recovered high end audiophile. In the old days it was a quest to see if there is a little more. Good enough is now good enough.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you had the option of selling all of your speakers in favor of a pair of T8s, I'd do it!

Shane is going to be sending an SX-1212/R to Josh for review and CEA testing next month I believe. I am told the 1212/R has nearly the same output as a T8 sub would, though I'm not sure how different it would sound if compared side by side. Personally I love the way the T8 subs integrate into my room with the 3 drivers firing front and 2 ports rear. Craziness!

Nice. We already have CEA for SX12.

Up next is SX1212R.

I hope he sends Josh the SX1010 as well.

 

[exlabdriver]

fmw: My sentiments exactly, especially for HT setups. I think that we mellow (in a good way) as we age, ha!

TAM

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

fmw: My sentiments exactly, especially for HT setups. I think that we mellow (in a good way) as we age, ha!

TAM

And as we age, we probably prefer lighter modular speakers, instead of 150-200 lbs behemoth.

 

[Irvrobinson]

And as we age, we probably prefer lighter modular speakers, instead of 150-200 lbs behemoth.

Not in my case. You can't reproduce a 24" kick drum with anything like accuracy using mini-monitors or some dinky-butt sub. End of story.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Not in my case. You can't reproduce a 24" kick drum with anything like accuracy using mini-monitors or some dinky-butt sub. End of story.

I use to think my little SVS 25-31s was awesome sounding, until I finished a Lil Mike Cinema T-6 tapped horn with a TC Sounds Epic 10. Now I know what dynamic means.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not in my case. You can't reproduce a 24" kick drum with anything like accuracy using mini-monitors or some dinky-butt sub. End of story.

R U saying kick drums sound better on Salon2 than on dual Funk 18.0 or Velodyne DD18?

Because I would disagree. I **think** kick drums sound much better on dual Funk or dual SX-1010 than on Salon2 in my room or at Revel dealer.

 

[Irvrobinson]

R U saying kick drums sound better on Salon2 than on dual Funk 18.0 or Velodyne DD18?

Because I would disagree. I **think** kick drums sound much better on dual Funk or dual SX-1010 than on Salon2 in my room or at Revel dealer.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I was responding to your post saying that as we age we go for smaller, lighter, more modular speakers. I like realism and accuracy, and I think to accurately reproduce many instruments it takes large, relatively heavy speakers. So we're actually agreeing, in that I think a kick drum sounds better with an 18" sub, not some wimpy little thing.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I was responding to your post saying that as we age we go for smaller, lighter, more modular speakers. I like realism and accuracy, and I think to accurately reproduce many instruments it takes large, relatively heavy speakers. So we're actually agreeing, in that I think a kick drum sounds better with an 18" sub, not some wimpy little thing.

Oh, good. But 18" behemoths don't have to weigh a ton.

My Funk 18.0 weighs about 60 lbs. I can actually pick it up to move it.

But yes, I implicitly agree that kick drums sound much better on higher-end, powerful, tight, accurate, dynamic, punchy subs than on less capable subs.