Think I could use help running my Crown XLS 1502's correctly

[Danzilla31]

Ok here's the scoop guys just bought 2 crown XLS 1502's to run my front 3. Also bought a Emotiva Gen 3 3 channel amp as well. Thought it be fun to AB switch them see which one I like the most

My equipment Denon X4400H AVR. 3 SVS Prime Towers for the front 3 speakers 4 Elan Theaterpointsthp650sl's for surrounds 4 RSLC34E's for ceiling speakers. 2 SVS PB 4000's for subs

My first issue was with Audyssey. Both amps sounded like crap when it was on. Hell just the AVR sounded like crap with Audyssey on. So I turned Audyssey off learned how to set up everything manually bam good to go sounds badass

Second issue was parents they were visiting if I went anywhere near my gear my mom would come out of they're room asking me to turn it down. I love them great visit they're gone system can really be played thank the Lord

When I set everything up and really let the system go I'm favoring the Emotiva but I'm not sure I'm setting up the Crowns right so I could use some advice

The issue is when I turn the gain knobs down on the Crowns to reduce tweeter hum and hiss I have to push the AVR much higher to get the same output in especially dynamics that the Emotiva can give at the same volume level

I dont think that should be that audible of a difference. I'm suspecting I'm not setting something up right on the Crowns

I'm using the 1.4 switch on the Crowns should I use the .7 switch instead? I've been told the denon preouts should have enough juice maybe they don't.

The thermal lights go on a bit even with the gain knobs dialed back although nowhere close to clipping with the volume on my AVR I'm usually never above 72 on the Denon. they shouldn't be running that hard to be honest. At least I don't think they should be running that hard Lol. Makes me suspect they may need the .7 switch maybe the Denon just can't drive them to there full potential.

I know pro gear needs you to be better at getting them to mix with consumer gear so I'm assuming I'm probably doing something wrong here

Anyone with knowledge of these amps who could show me what I'm doing wrong any advice would be appreciated.

Im buying 3 new towers next week and moving the prime towers to my surrounds I have 4 of them so I'd like to keep the Crowns combine them with the Emotiva gear if it's possible so I have all the amplification I need to just run my Denon on eco mode and keep it lasting longer. Plus it's a big Damn room and very open so amplification does help

Just need to be shown what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for any feedback you can give

 

[KEW]

I would definitely switch to 0.7, turn down the volume on the AVR, and ease it back up and see if things situate more the way you want them to as you get the volume up to your max level.
I think the idea is that the Denon puts out enough of a signal to accommodate Pro Audio gear but it is still probably better suited for consumer audio input levels on the amp - since you have the option with that amp.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

For starters, the Crown doesn’t have all that good of a noise spec: 97 dB A-weighted. Look up the A-weighted curve and you’ll see it droops drastically in the high and low frequencies, which is where noise typically is. It’s basically a dishonest way to make a noise spec look better than it really is. An A-weighted spec can be functionally 10 dB worse than a broadband un-weighted (aka Z-weighted) spec, if not more.

Go ahead and use the .7 setting as KEW recommended and see if that helps.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Danzilla31]

I would definitely switch to 0.7, turn down the volume on the AVR, and ease it back up and see if things situate more the way you want them to as you get the volume up to your max level.
I think the idea is that the Denon puts out enough of a signal to accommodate Pro Audio gear but it is still probably better suited for consumer audio input levels on the amp - since you have the option with that amp.

Thanks KEW! How've you been! I'll definetly try that might hold on a bit see if any one else has input but I'll go with that I definetly don't think I'm driving them to there full potential so that makes a lottof sense had the same issue with the Crown 1002 as well so I think that's a great idea

I'm liking the sound of the Emo amp. The first one I had the XPA 5 gen 1 I ran it with Audyssey and turns out Audyssey was messing with my sound makes me wish I hadn't sold that one off oh well I'm having fun tho!

 

[Danzilla31]

For starters, the Crown doesn’t have all that good of a noise spec: 97 dB A-weighted. Look up the A-weighted curve and you’ll see it droops drastically in the high and low frequencies, which is where noise typically is. It’s basically a dishonest way to make a noise spec look better than it really is. An A-weighted spec can be functionally 10 dB worse than a broadband un-weighted (aka Z-weighted) spec, if not more.

Go ahead and use the .7 setting as KEW recommended and see if that helps.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Thanks Wayne that's great info to know okay I'm going to give that .7 a shot. I'll let you guys know what happens.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@danzilla you should try these midrange towers from legacy. They’ll help with the hiss for sure.
https://www.legacyaudio.com/products/view/focus-se/

 

[Danzilla31]

Hmmm this is interesting looked up the info on the denon and the rated output on the preouts is 1.2v I've heard those preouts can run higher but I'm thinking maybe not definetly gonna try that .7 switch see if it helps

 

[Danzilla31]

@danzilla you should try these midrange towers from legacy. They’ll help with the hiss for sure.
https://www.legacyaudio.com/products/view/focus-se/

Ummmmmm hmmmmmmm Ok? Lol. Damn bro I just wanted help knowing if I was running the Crowns wrong I didn't think the fix would cost me $10,000!

 

[Danzilla31]

@danzilla you should try these midrange towers from legacy. They’ll help with the hiss for sure.
https://www.legacyaudio.com/products/view/focus-se/

Are you still mad at me because I got a bigger TV then you now? It was your idea after all

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Are you still mad at me because I got a bigger TV then you now? It was your idea after all

Lmao! You got me homes!!! I am a little jelly, I admit but no. I just figured that even if you did have a hiss you wouldn’t care after looking at those gorgeous towers!

 

[Danzilla31]

Lmao! You got me homes!!! I am a little jelly, I admit but no. I just figured that even if you did have a hiss you would care after looking at those gorgeous towers!

Too funny bro but those towers would seriously look sexy as a trio underneath that screen!

 

[lovinthehd]

Hum and hiss? More than typical amp hiss? Bit of ground loop hum as well? How audible at what distance? Some folk use a direct box, never had to myself, my Denons and Onkyo do fine with my 1500s. I usually set the levels on the Crowns so I can get clipping at reference levels...

Ps what speakers?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Too funny bro but those towers would seriously look sexy as a trio underneath that screen!

Drooooooooool....... yes they would indeed.

 

[Danzilla31]

Hum and hiss? More than typical amp hiss? Bit of ground loop hum as well? How audible at what distance? Some folk use a direct box, never had to myself, my Denons and Onkyo do fine with my 1500s. I usually set the levels on the Crowns so I can get clipping at reference levels...

Ps what speakers?

I think just the standard tweeter hum you get from class d amps. No hissing it goes quiet if I back off the gain a few clicks on the Crowns it's gone you can hear it from 1 or 2 feet away if the gain is all the way up on the Crowns

But when I turn the gain down a few clicks on the Crowns and eliminate the hum and go back and forth between the Crowns and Emotiva there is a noticeable drop in dynamics and midrange presence a little on the highs when the denon is at the same volume level between both amps.

Noticeable to the point I'm wondering if the crown needs to be on the .7 setting instead of 1.4 it's always felt on 1.4 like I've needed to have the denon cranked a little more then Id like to get the same dynamics when using the Crowns I'm getting ready to try it on the .7 setting see if it helps.

On the speakers I don't want to say anything just yet. There was a hiccup when Bjorn's was ordering them they said an in stock issue some crap like that and I don't want to say anything to you guys till I know I'm getting them for sure

I really hope I get em tho kind off fell in love with them

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hey Dan, I have a dumb question. When you back the crown down, are you re-level matching?

 

[Danzilla31]

Hum and hiss? More than typical amp hiss? Bit of ground loop hum as well? How audible at what distance? Some folk use a direct box, never had to myself, my Denons and Onkyo do fine with my 1500s. I usually set the levels on the Crowns so I can get clipping at reference levels...

Ps what speakers?

There's no hum at all when I use the Emotiva so I'm thinking it can't be a ground loop cus you'd hear it on both wouldn't you?

 

[Danzilla31]

Hey Dan, I have a dumb question. When you back the crown down, are you re-level matching?

Yes just not running Audyssey to do it though I hate Audyssey I've had really bad results with it in this room

 

[Danzilla31]

Yes just not running Audyssey to do it though I hate Audyssey I've had really bad results with it in this room

Not saying Audyssey is bad just had bad luck with it in this room

 

[lovinthehd]

Another thought, where do you have the amps? There is a warning about placing them too close to pre-amps or tape decks or other gear that might be compromised by the amps' magnetic field...

I think just the standard tweeter hum you get from class d amps. No hissing it goes quiet if I back off the gain a few clicks on the Crowns it's gone you can hear it from 1 or 2 feet away if the gain is all the way up on the Crowns

But when I turn the gain down a few clicks on the Crowns and eliminate the hum and go back and forth between the Crowns and Emotiva there is a noticeable drop in dynamics and midrange presence a little on the highs when the denon is at the same volume level between both amps.

Noticeable to the point I'm wondering if the crown needs to be on the .7 setting instead of 1.4 it's always felt on 1.4 like I've needed to have the denon cranked a little more then Id like to get the same dynamics when using the Crowns I'm getting ready to try it on the .7 setting see if it helps.

On the speakers I don't want to say anything just yet. There was a hiccup when Bjorn's was ordering them they said an in stock issue some crap like that and I don't want to say anything to you guys till I know I'm getting them for sure

I really hope I get em tho kind off fell in love with them

I've never heard of "standard tweeter hum from a class D". Where did you get that? Descriptions can be hard, but the description sounds more like ground loop hum than typical amp hiss.

How did you measure dynamics? How do you come to that conclusion?

I ask about speakers only because very high sensitivity speakers have been known to have audible hiss with these amps.

Have you tried lifting the ground on the Crowns? Does the Emotiva have a three prong plug?




I also wonder did you re-calibrate in between each change of amp?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yes just not running Audyssey to do it though I hate Audyssey I've had really bad results with it in this room

I remember you saying that about audyssey. Just was wondering about the level match. Not sure about your him issues. It’s not likely the case, but I had an rca cable that was wonky that caused me some hum issues. That was a subwoofer though so... I guess if you can’t hear it at the LP, don’t sweat it. Maybe?