The NRA owns Trump as well.

[mtrycrafts]

I found what looks like the same census info- sure would be good to see 18 and older, rather than under 18, under 65, etc.

At least the under 18 helps as the rest are over.

 

[KEW]

No, not when they are in a happy mood.
But then, when they slip into an unhappy mood, who knows.

Give me a puppy, I'm happy!
Run over my puppy "I'll kill you, mother f*cker!"

 

[Swerd]

I'm of a mind that suicides are immaterial. Perhaps my libertarian side is too dominant, but I don't think it's anyone's business to interfere in another person's decision to take their own life. This whole notion that we need to save people from themselves strikes me as one of the worst of all personal intrusions. Sure, some people who commit suicide are mentally ill, but to assume everyone who chooses suicide is mentally ill is, to me, immoral. When I think about gun violence I don't include suicides.

What's immoral to me is providing easy gun access to people whose lives seem so desperate that they choose to blow their brains out. And no, I don't think that suicide by car crash, drugs, or drinking is any better.

Frankly, I think its immoral that our society chooses to ignore the large number of people who, right or wrong, find themselves so desperate that they see no other way out. It's a cheap excuse to avoid dealing with a taboo subject.

I'm not one of those people who believe that suicide is always wrong. There is a time and a place for that, such as when someone has a dreadful terminal disease and the end is near. But I also reject the libertarian view that suicide is a purely private matter. Most of the mass murder/suicides were likely done in desperation after frequent unanswered cries for help.

Edit: Upon reading this, I apologize for the grim tone. This entire dreadful subject is enough to make me need one of those puppies. KEW, send it quick!

 

[pewternhrata]

I'm of a mind that suicides are immaterial. Perhaps my libertarian side is too dominant, but I don't think it's anyone's business to interfere in another person's decision to take their own life. This whole notion that we need to save people from themselves strikes me as one of the worst of all personal intrusions. Sure, some people who commit suicide are mentally ill, but to assume everyone who chooses suicide is mentally ill is, to me, immoral. When I think about gun violence I don't include suicides.

Suicides involving murder, an entire different situation. Is it Mass shooting or Mass suicide?
Anyone that kills is automatically perceived as mentally ill. If you kill another human something HAS to be wrong upstairs. Take your OWN life, I won't blink, but dont take someone else's with you. Its easy to blame the gun, but the only thing the gun is, is an easy means out. So sure, regulate the hell out of them, next time Johnny has a rough day itl be the next best (easiest) thing

 

[mtrycrafts]

And, if you haven't seen the latest today, a teacher with a gun barricaded himself in the classroom and shut up the room. Dalton HS, Georgia.
Yes, we need more teachers armed obviously. They could have stopped him with or without a gun.

 

[Swerd]

And, if you haven't seen the latest today, a teacher with a gun barricaded himself in the classroom and shut up the room. Dalton HS, Georgia.
Yes, we need more teachers armed obviously. Cadet Bone Spur could have stopped him with or without a gun.

Fixed that for ya .

And some better recent news… In response to the earlier announcement from D!ck's Sporting Goods, Walmart, the largest seller of firearms and ammunition in the US, announced Wednesday that it also would no longer sell guns or ammo to anyone under the age of 21. Walmart had previously stopped selling modern sporting rifles, including the AR-15, in 2015.

Now the ball is in the GOP Congressional Leader's court… Will they have what it takes to face down their NRA contributors?

 

[eljr]

Who would do something like this if they were sane? I guess well-adjusted is another issue, but either can be a factor. Happy people just don't do this.

Read history. Killing is just something humans do.

Happy people, sad people, ill people, healthy people...

It may seem insane to you to kill but the universality of killing has no base ties to mental illness.

 

[eljr]

Addressing mental health issues would, of course, not be a panacea. But, it could go a long way towards reducing gun violence.

there is no data to support this

in fact, only tighter gun controls have a history of going a long way toward reducing gun violence.

Always go with the numbers not emotion. Most times they paint two different pictures.

 

[eljr]

I have written that the people here are different form other parts of the World and others have told me that I'm wrong, but haven't told me why they think I'm wrong.

others are correct

you are mistaken because culture does not change DNA

You could be correct if you said tribal mores and laws are different here and you feel that has an impact on our insane slaughters.

 

[eljr]

In addition the list of common sense reforms to gun laws, I would add what Ponzio mentioned about mental health care earlier in this thread. In the 1980s, the Reagan administration ended Federal money to states that ran mental health care hospitals. (He did the same in California earlier in the 1960s when he was governor.)

As a result, mental hospitals closed, sending out many hundreds or thousands of patients onto the streets. These people were clearly unable to fend for themselves. Despite the (popular at the time) idea that mentally ill people should be free from incarceration, no professional experienced in mental health care agreed. These patients did not benefit from their new freedom. This national negligence is indirectly related to the national gun violence problem. The 22,000 suicides per year by gun indicate something is wrong. The present health insurance practices & laws about committing someone to prolonged involuntary mental health care are simply inadequate.

It's a national disgrace. Both problems, long neglected, must be fixed.

Prisons largely replaced mental health care hospitals.

You say Ray-Gun ended federal monies to states that ran mental health care hospitals, can you be more specific? It does not seem right at all. I have never heard of a state being cut off from all federal funds indiscriminately.

Maybe you mean certain funding was stopped if the money was used for mental health care facilities?????

 

[highfigh]

others are correct

you are mistaken because culture does not change DNA

You could be correct if you said tribal mores and laws are different here and you feel that has an impact on our insane slaughters.

This is a cultural problem, not DNA. If everyone had the same impulses and instincts, without having been taught these by parents, guardians or acquaintances, it would be different.

 

[highfigh]

At least the under 18 helps as the rest are over.

OK, smart guy- show the formula! Show your work!

 

[highfigh]

Fixed that for ya .

And some better recent news… In response to the earlier announcement from D!ck's Sporting Goods, Walmart, the largest seller of firearms and ammunition in the US, announced Wednesday that it also would no longer sell guns or ammo to anyone under the age of 21. Walmart had previously stopped selling modern sporting rifles, including the AR-15, in 2015.

Now the ball is in the GOP Congressional Leader's court… Will they have what it takes to face down their NRA contributors?

He could return the NRA's money. He won't, but he could.

 

[highfigh]

I talked with my father-in-law about this yesterday. He's a State Trooper and has had numerous guns over the years. He even has a license to own fully automatic weapons.

He told me that at one time he had about 60 guns including a fully automatic rifle (I forget which one). One day he was thinking "why do I need these?" He realized he didn't and sold off most of them. He's got a few things now just from being an officer, but nothing like a fully auto rifle. Just doesn't see the point.

Another thing he talked about what how easy it was for people to get things at gun shows. He doesn't think that should be allowed at all. He was also all for a centralized database of everything people have purchased.

I was surprised he was as open minded as he was considering he is very much for people owning guns, but he also stopped his NRA membership once they went away from training people on proper usage and went to lobbying, so he is the more level minded gun owner as some of us are. He just thinks their cool, but also realizes that people are way too lax in how they treat their weapons.

I see people be more responsible with power tools than guns...

Organizations that become activist when their existence surrounds people being able to own weapons is a very dangerous path. Their hard-core members see no problem with it, but the moderate ones do- it's a matter of whether they have the guts to do something about it and removing LaPierre is a good start.

Here's a good example of why the lack of background check in private gun sales need to change-

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-police-paul-bauer-gun-20180228-story.html

 

[highfigh]

This is one instance of someone with an AR-15 stopping someone without killing them- I like the outcome, but I disagree with his last comment.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/aurora-beacon-news/news/ct-abn-oswego-stabbing-charges-st-0227-20180227-story.html

 

[highfigh]

Read history. Killing is just something humans do.

Happy people, sad people, ill people, healthy people...

It may seem insane to you to kill but the universality of killing has no base ties to mental illness.

I won't deny that people kill- it would be very ignorant of me to do that and it's what most animals do but if you watch the reactions of some people when they're near any kind of gun or deadly weapon, it tells me that some people have been conditioned to fear them or just aren't pre-disposed to killing. OTOH, they may be able to bring themselves to do it if it's a life or death situation but the issue is murder and mass-killing.

Aberrant behavior is all around us.

 

[eljr]

This is one instance of someone with an AR-15 stopping someone without killing them- I like the outcome, but I disagree with his last comment.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/aurora-beacon-news/news/ct-abn-oswego-stabbing-charges-st-0227-20180227-story.html

I literally laughed out loud reading the last line.

Yes, I agree with you. THe last line is not well thought out.

 

[Swerd]

You say Ray-Gun ended federal monies to states that ran mental health care hospitals, can you be more specific? It does not seem right at all. I have never heard of a state being cut off from all federal funds indiscriminately.

I just searched google for "mental health care Ronald Reagan" and found a long list of links. It's a lot of reading, and I've only just started looking at them, but here are a few links that caught my eye:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html?pagewanted=all

http://sites.psu.edu/psy533wheeler/2017/02/08/u01-ronald-reagan-and-the-federal-deinstitutionalization-of-mentally-ill-patients/comment-page-1/

 

[GO-NAD!]

there is no data to support this

in fact, only tighter gun controls have a history of going a long way toward reducing gun violence.

Always go with the numbers not emotion. Most times they paint two different pictures.

When 2/3 of American gun deaths are suicides, how could improving access to mental health care not help. And, if you think that I believe in improved access to mental health care as a measure to lessen gun violence in place of tighter gun control, you haven't read everything I've stated about the issue, or are deliberately taking it out of context.

You don't need to tell me that better gun control is needed - you're preaching to choir, bud.

 

[eljr]

I just searched google for "mental health care Ronald Reagan" and found a long list of links. It's a lot of reading, and I've only just started looking at them, but here are a few links that caught my eye:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html?pagewanted=all

http://sites.psu.edu/psy533wheeler/2017/02/08/u01-ronald-reagan-and-the-federal-deinstitutionalization-of-mentally-ill-patients/comment-page-1/

Thanks but all I find in these links is that Ray-Gun cut Federal funds to community based healthcare centers. Very different than cutting all monies to a state as you said.