The Great January Audio Gear Exchange

[Swerd]

I wonder why and how the angle got built into Kurt's cabinets. I only noticed when they were side by side with the Maple pair. That makes for a tougher build but it does look good. Very sphinx like the way they're leaned back with that grain orientation.

The maple Phil 3s you saw are Dennis's speakers. He uses them to demo his designs to potential buyers, and has dragged them to some audio shows. They were built sometime before July 2011 and were the first Phil 3 cabinets.

Kurt's Phil 3s show the various changes, mainly cosmetic, including the angled sides vs. straight sides that you noted, and the chamfered edges vs. rounded-over edges. If I recall, the angled sides were done to make the cabinets look like they intrude into the room a bit less. And yes, that made them more difficult to make.

Peel-N-Seal does deaden the cabinet more, but I'm not sure it's not because of the added mass. I discussed this at length with a mechanical engineer who works with CLD and he thought it was the mass that really made a difference in the speaker. We've seen measurements done by AH on this so it certainly does have an effect. I'm not sure it's worth the extra effort and I'd never use it in a commercial design. If I ever finish my speakers I'll tell you how it sounds. This weekend is promising temp wise and rain wise. Though I need to recut my baffles and I'm really not looking forward to it. Finishing will be a pain and I'm seriously considering getting a pro to do that.

Unless there is a clearly audible or measurable difference, it doesn't matter what any engineer said. You mentioned measurements done by AH. Do you know where they are?

You, of course, are free to do whatever you want on your own speakers. But to recommend such modifications to others requires (in my opinion) good evidence of an audible improvement.

 

[Swerd]

Man this thread is getting to much respect or people are just slipping. How has no one jumped on this yet?

I thought he was just giving you speakers…now things are becoming a little clearer

Get your mind out of the gutter .

I refer you to the Classified thread where Kurt first put these speakers up for sale.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/classifieds-sell-your-gear/80632-salk-songtowers-ribbon-tweeter-$1500.html

In particular, there was this photo

 

[nibhaz]

LOL!

I wonder what else Alex could be enticed to purchase by strategically placing bananas in the photo?

It’s probably on a subliminal level and he can’t even resist it </SPAN></SPAN>



Try taking a picture of a coffee roaster with a banana on it and see what happens next

 

[brianedm]

LOL!

I wonder what else Alex could be enticed to purchase by strategically placing bananas in the photo?

It’s probably on a subliminal level and he can’t even resist it



Try taking a picture of a coffee roaster with a banana on it and see what happens next

All the money, that's what happens next.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm swapping out the BR-1s for the MB-27s. I wonder if Cheryl will notice.

 

[lsiberian]

Unless there is a clearly audible or measurable difference, it doesn't matter what any engineer said. You mentioned measurements done by AH. Do you know where they are?You, of course, are free to do whatever you want on your own speakers. But to recommend such modifications to others requires (in my opinion) good evidence of an audible improvement.

Lowering Mechanical Noise Floor in Speakers Pt 2 — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Loudspeaker construction

Andrew probably has data on it somewhere, but I don't blame you for not doing it. There are other examples and arguments on this around the web, but I'm betting you've already read the above articles and probably the arguments given your build experience. I don't believe TLS uses this approach so that probably say a lot for it on the negative end. I don't advocate the approach in most circumstances. It is definitely experimental, but you couldn't produce a commercial speaker with it anyway because Sony has the technology patented. I should note that I love discussing experimental speaker approaches and I'm definitely a fringe guy. CLD is definitely not practical for commercial speaker applications and barely practical for DIY, but I love building speakers and don't mind taking my sweet lazy time.

 

[Alex2507]

I just fired up the MB-27s. Richard, I want to have your babies.

Yesterday I picked up the CD copy of Adele 21 to better test the Primus speakers with because Walters downloaded version sounded like @ss. I played it on the BR-1s and it was immediately time to dance.

Just now I made some coffee for Cheryl:

While she sipped on that I set the RX-V2600 to flat (I hope) and when she left for work I got to finish off the left over coffee, played that CD and my copy of the 9th. These MB-27s just sound real good. They look real good too. I can't explain how happy I am with all this without sounding ridiculous.

 

[Adam]

Ahhh, the inverted AeroPress method. That does make some good coffee. I feel sorry for the drip coffee maker next to it.

The blue painter's tape make me feel at home. I should get around to pulling those two final strips off from near my ceiling...that have been there since I painted in December 2008.

 

[lsiberian]

We seriously need to plan a DFW get together.

 

[slipperybidness]

We seriously need to plan a DFW get together.

DFW....as in Dallas / Fort Worth?

 

[lsiberian]

DFW....as in Dallas / Fort Worth?

Yeah. We've got a few folks around her that live in DFW. Maybe Adam would be willing to drive halfway across the country if we played twister.

 

[Swerd]

Lowering Mechanical Noise Floor in Speakers Pt 2 — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Loudspeaker construction

Andrew probably has data on it somewhere, but I don't blame you for not doing it. There are other examples and arguments on this around the web, but I'm betting you've already read the above articles and probably the arguments given your build experience. I don't believe TLS uses this approach so that probably say a lot for it on the negative end. I don't advocate the approach in most circumstances. It is definitely experimental, but you couldn't produce a commercial speaker with it anyway because Sony has the technology patented. I should note that I love discussing experimental speaker approaches and I'm definitely a fringe guy. CLD is definitely not practical for commercial speaker applications and barely practical for DIY, but I love building speakers and don't mind taking my sweet lazy time.

Thanks for those links. I may have read them in the past, and forgot them ! They do advocate a cabinet build method that I find too difficult to consider doing.

The first link has a lot of mechanical engineering to explain why CLD ought to be better, and it did include accelerometer measurements to back up that thinking. But it ended with a disappointing simple listening test, with the (possibly biased) conclusion that it worked well. They never did a systematic listening test of speakers built with and without those methods. Because CLD methods are so difficult for me to build, I need that kind of convincing before I take it seriously.

I think it all boils down to the difference between over-kill and good enough. Experienced amateur and pro cabinet builders may disagree on whether cabinet walls should be thick or thin, but they all agree that internal cross bracing is very important. However, there is no consensus on whether various CLD cabinet methods may be as important.

 

[Swerd]

I just fired up the MB-27s. Richard, I want to have your babies.

Is this what Doug meant when he said you'd describe speakers as:

"certain parts of my body tingled"
​

I'm extremely glad you like them.

Just now I made some coffee for Cheryl…

While she sipped on that I set the RX-V2600 to flat (I hope) and when she left for work I got to finish off the left over coffee, played that CD and my copy of the 9th. These MB-27s just sound real good. They look real good too. I can't explain how happy I am with all this without sounding ridiculous.

I hadn't seen that coffee maker in action. Interesting. A variation on a press pot mixed with a filter drip cone.

I had some of that same Guatemalan coffee this morning . Very nice. I am now glad I bought 5 lbs. of those green beans.

 

[Alex2507]

"I've been living a lie, there's nothing inside."
Evanescence. Fallen. Track 2. 3:26 min.

It's a low level whispered male vocal. On the stock pair it sounded like it was just garbled throat sounds. On the modded pair it is easily identified as whispering. Walter noticed that. I have the same CD at home and it's understandable English on the MB-27s. Now that I've been around the block a few times with the the modded pair I can say I would happily live with them again. The stock ones not so much. Honestly I was hoping Walter would quit listening to them. I don't want to listen to them again. They're packed in my fofo ready for a trip to Eddies along with the boxes for the MB-27s.

I'm very tempted to out class the modded 360s with better mod to the 362s. Walter's kid noticed that Walter had switched speakers on him and requested that they be switched back. I noticed that Walter had his left and right mixed up and checked his level matching. The songs we listened to all played around 90db average. We didn't jockey the volume at all. The stock pair hurt my ears at that level. I'm sure for HT at ~84 db they would be quite nice because of the fuller bass. At 90db female vocals sounded shredded as opposed to sharp and smooth. Testing is officially over simply because I don't want to listen to the stock pair again.

Kurt, I took notes this time around and had well recorded (CD quality) music. I listened for very specific things at certain 'times' in various songs. The results are conclusive. There really is no going backwards in this game. I'm confident a mod to the 362s would bring them a full step up in SQ. I can't keep talking about LF panel resonance and upper midrange ringing. The recommendation is to open those speakers up like a can of tuna or save up for better.

 

[Rickster71]

"I've been living a lie, there's nothing inside."
Evanescence. Fallen. Track 2. 3:26 min.

It's a low level whispered male vocal. On the stock pair it sounded like it was just garbled throat sounds. On the modded pair it is easily identified as whispering. Walter noticed that. I have the same CD at home and it's understandable English on the MB-27s. Now that I've been around the block a few times with the the modded pair I can say I would happily live with them again. The stock ones not so much. Honestly I was hoping Walter would quit listening to them. I don't want to listen to them again. They're packed in my fofo ready for a trip to Eddies along with the boxes for the MB-27s.

I'm very tempted to out class the modded 360s with better mod to the 362s. Walter's kid noticed that Walter had switched speakers on him and requested that they be switched back. I noticed that Walter had his left and right mixed up and checked his level matching. The songs we listened to all played around 90db average. We didn't jockey the volume at all. The stock pair hurt my ears at that level. I'm sure for HT at ~84 db they would be quite nice because of the fuller bass. At 90db female vocals sounded shredded as opposed to sharp and smooth. Testing is officially over simply because I don't want to listen to the stock pair again.



Kurt, I took notes this time around and had well recorded (CD quality) music. I listened for very specific things at certain 'times' in various songs. The results are conclusive. There really is no going backwards in this game. I'm confident a mod to the 362s would bring them a full step up in SQ. I can't keep talking about LF panel resonance and upper midrange ringing. The recommendation is to open those speakers up like a can of tuna or save up for better.

Those sound like nice speakers.

Is Walter over by you...or are you at Walters?
Either way tell him I said hello.

 

[lsiberian]

The first link has a lot of mechanical engineering to explain why CLD ought to be better, and it did include accelerometer measurements to back up that thinking. But it ended with a disappointing simple listening test, with the (possibly biased) conclusion that it worked well. They never did a systematic listening test of speakers built with and without those methods. Because CLD methods are so difficult for me to build, I need that kind of convincing before I take it seriously.

My 2nd approach to CLD has proven to be much simpler. So if you do want to experiment you can check out my 3-way build to see the approach. Mind you it adds a lot of mass to a speaker, but if you are using plywood it's not overly heavy. Andrew sold out of the hobby and I think moved on to cooking otherwise you could have a really good discussion. I suppose I could do a single of each doing a simple 2-way design at some point for comparison.

If you want to try it out. Peel-N-Seal is the material to test it out with.

 

[Alex2507]

Those sound like nice speakers.

Is Walter over by you...or are you at Walters?
Either way tell him I said hello.

Wrong Walter.

 

[Alex2507]

My 2nd approach to CLD has proven to be much simpler. So if you do want to experiment you can check out my 3-way build to see the approach. Mind you it adds a lot of mass to a speaker, but if you are using plywood it's not overly heavy. Andrew sold out of the hobby and I think moved on to cooking otherwise you could have a really good discussion. I suppose I could do a single of each doing a simple 2-way design at some point for comparison.

If you want to try it out. Peel-N-Seal is the material to test it out with.

Would it work on the outside of the SongTowers?

 

[lsiberian]

Would it work on the outside of the SongTowers?

I don't suggest that tried the inner first approach and it was a disaster.

 

[ImcLoud]

I just want to interject with a quick thanks to swerd and dan for the recipes and tips on the brisket, good stuff, the sauce was good the brisket was amazing, I feel like Im going to burst and I ate 5 hours ago.... I ended up using apple and cherry wood in the smoker and it came amazing... I didn't take all the credit, I told everyone that the recipe was from a couple friends on the audio forum, I was going to say I made it up but I didn't , besides no one would have believed it, lol... I really didnt do anything, my butcher got the meats all ready, my housekeeper made the sauce and prepped the meat, I did carry it to the smoker though , {since Im slingless today} and then the smoker did the rest {it has probes to tell you when the meat is done}. So I really just paid for everything and carried it, I set it up so everyone could cut off what they wanted, I just made a few slices to get it started...

But anyway, thanks again, I appreciate it as did my guests, what didnt get eaten my housekeeper boxed up for some guests that wanted doggie bags... and its a good thing I made so much extra because we had 6 more people than we expected and the kids were ferocious carnivores this evening, one of my sons and his friend made themselves a sandwich with what looked like a 1lb piece of brisket and a cup of sauce, they split it and were eating it at the counter bar while everyone was getting their coats... We now have 7 kids plus my 2 sleeping over tonight, so 9 boys between the ages of 11-14 in the guest house, I made sure the parental locks were on the tv and the bar is locked lol, worse they can do it drink a bunch of coffee, oh man, I better go lock up the coffee........................