The Great January Audio Gear Exchange

[agarwalro]

Just caught up with the thread and now I'm hungry for some Southern food. There goes the New Year's Resolution .

Brisket would have been awesome, but, not possible. So, I'll settle for a grilled stake for dinner.

 

[Alex2507]

Primus Update

Walter's teenaged son declined my invitation to participate in evaluating the speakers on Monday. However somewhere along the line he has heard both and told Walter that he likes the modded pair better. I asked Walter if his son, Chip, had the vocabulary to describe what he was hearing. Walter replied that all Chip said was that the modified pair sounded better.

It's important to keep in mind that the modified pair give up some bass (of that I'm positive) and the teen still liked them better. Another thing I'm positive about is that the song we used to test them with was a low resolution MP3. I know what that song sounds like on my 2.2 channel computer rig and there was stuff missing. That's why I thought both speakers sounded like crap all the way around.

When I got out to YAA's and first heard the Phil3s my first thought was how good my Infinities sounded. Yeah, the Phils were better but if you don't have a few grand to spend ... . I'm lined up to head over to Walter's again on Saturday ~ 11:00 AM with a speaker selector switch. Maybe I'll get a CD copy of Adele's Rolling in the deep just to be sure that it's Walter's copy that sucks and not my speakers.

Long range plan: mod Kurt's pair for Eddie and get my hands on a pair of those Pioneer speakers that are all the rage for a comparison.

One other thing I forgot to mention: the knuckle rap test favored the modded pair. First the knock produced a lower frequency thud and then it died off more quickly. The stock pair almost rang like a bell in comparison. Walter and I could both hear that.

 

[slipperybidness]

Long range plan: mod Kurt's pair for Eddie and get my hands on a pair of those Pioneer speakers that are all the rage for a comparison.

What mods in particular?

I've read about gluing or removing the shield cans, replacing the cabinet-fill with better material, and the adding of internal bracing.

What is your plan? All of the above and /or something else. I would be very interested in trying on my 363s.

 

[Alex2507]

What mods in particular?

I've read about gluing or removing the shield cans, replacing the cabinet-fill with better material, and the adding of internal bracing.

What is your plan? All of the above and /or something else. I would be very interested in trying on my 363s.

I'm thinking 'all of the above'. This time instead of working through the driver holes I'd like to cut the back out to gain better access for one and instead of replacing the cut out piece I am thinking of 'capping' the back. That would grow the internal dimension by 3/4".

Working through the driver holes is very difficult.

 

[Bryceo]

Alex get Phil's allready

 

[slipperybidness]

I'm thinking 'all of the above'. This time instead of working through the driver holes I'd like to cut the back out to gain better access for one and instead of replacing the cut out piece I am thinking of 'capping' the back. That would grow the internal dimension by 3/4".

Working through the driver holes is very difficult.

Cool. You know the routine, keep us informed and post pics!

I'd like to see how it turns out and probably do the same or similar. The ability to improve the 363s is part of the reason I bought those (I think mine are actually the 362s b/c I liked the silver baffle better).

Also, I've seen talk of raising them up some with risers, does that seem worthwhile?

 

[Alex2507]

I've seen talk of raising them up some with risers, does that seem worthwhile?

That's me talking that talk and yes it is definitely worth while. Getting the tweeter at or a little above ear level was a noticeable improvement.

 

[lsiberian]

I'm thinking 'all of the above'. This time instead of working through the driver holes I'd like to cut the back out to gain better access for one and instead of replacing the cut out piece I am thinking of 'capping' the back. That would grow the internal dimension by 3/4".

Working through the driver holes is very difficult.

Bracing and rockwool should do a lot to help sound. Capping is a bit more adventurous. Were you planning on capping the port on the inside or outside. I'm thinking the inside would get you closer to the optimal tuning for the primus drivers.

 

[slipperybidness]

That's me talking that talk and yes it is definitely worth while. Getting the tweeter at or a little above ear level was a noticeable improvement.

Naw, I saw at least one other person talk about it somewhere.

But yeah, I guess I see a mod thread on AH, but seems like most pics are gone now. Either way, I'm interested.

What do you think the estimated $ is for the mods? Pretty dang cheap? Mostly labor?

I think the real question for me is how far to take the mod. Cutting the cans and adding the wool looks easy. Adding the bracing and cutting out the back looks like a lot more work. I just wonder if it's really worth the extra effort?

 

[slipperybidness]

Bracing and rockwool should do a lot to help sound. Capping is a bit more adventurous. Were you planning on capping the port on the inside or outside. I'm thinking the inside would get you closer to the optimal tuning for the primus drivers.

The way I read it, he was gonna cut out the back and then just replace the back with a board over the remaining cabinet (not try to sink the back piece into the hole if you see what I mean). I didn't read it as having anything to do with the ports (that are on the front).

 

[Alex2507]

Bracing and rockwool should do a lot to help sound. Capping is a bit more adventurous. Were you planning on capping the port on the inside or outside. I'm thinking the inside would get you closer to the optimal tuning for the primus drivers.

I think you misunderstood. I would not cap (as in plug) the port. I meant cut the back out and instead of replacing that panel as an insert I would cut a new one to the external dimensions of the cabinet. The new panel would 'cap' the cabinet as opposed to slipping into the cabinet like the stock one does.

Don't anybody hold their breath on this. Eddie still lives 40 miles away and I may not feel like giving up the time to do this.

 

[Swerd]

Don't anybody hold their breath on this. Eddie still lives 40 miles away and I may not feel like giving up the time to do this.

I'm glad you said that part. Cutting off the entire back of the cabinet and eventually replacing it, sounds difficult and full of mine fields – unless I don't understand what you plan.

I can understand how difficult it is to work through the woofer holes in a cabinet, but the real question you should answer before doing any of this, is it the audible improvement worth the effort? It might be a whole lot easier in the long run to build a completely new cabinet.

And if you're going to do all that, why use those Infinity drivers when you could build ER18 MTMs?

Help me remember what were the cabinet modifications you originally did?

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Alex, you have a dining room table to work on...

If they are going to be crossed over with a sub I wouldn't worry about the little bit of extension you'll lose to bracing and peel-n-seal...removing the back would make it a bunch easier though....especially if you have gorilla like hands.

 

[Alex2507]

Whoops, I missed this.

Naw, I saw at least one other person talk about it somewhere.

Probably some other incredibly handsome and intelligent individual.

What do you think the estimated $ is for the mods? Pretty dang cheap? Mostly labor?

Peal&Seal and s some insulation can't be too much. Under $100 anyway.

I think the real question for me is how far to take the mod. Cutting the cans and adding the wool looks easy. Adding the bracing and cutting out the back looks like a lot more work. I just wonder if it's really worth the extra effort?

Don't cut the cans off. Caulk them with Phenoseal.

The idea is that opening up the back will allow you access to make things easier said the man who never opened up the back and as TLS said, the work is nothing in the rear view mirror but good work can be enjoyed for years to come.

What are you waiting for? Tear that thing a new one.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm glad you said that part. Cutting off the entire back of the cabinet and eventually replacing it, sounds difficult and full of mine fields – unless I don't understand what you plan.

I can understand how difficult it is to work through the woofer holes in a cabinet, but the real question you should answer before doing any of this, is it the audible improvement worth the effort? It might be a whole lot easier in the long run to build a completely new cabinet.

And if you're going to do all that, why use those Infinity drivers when you could build ER18 MTMs?

Help me remember what were the cabinet modifications you originally did?

Good point about the ER18s. It's just more money but a way better sound ... and the dreaded finish.

On my 360s I put a thick stack of insulation on the floor of the cabinet and lined the walls with duct liner. I glued up the rattly magnetic shields and put better insulation in the midrange cup. Also I raised them so that the tweeter was at my ear level.

The only reason to do this is if you already have the Infinities, like to tinker and can't afford to buy better but want better sound. I know there's better but at the same time Infinity has many happy costumers listening to their stock offering. I was happy with them stock, happier with them modified and happiest of all when Kurt whipped out his banana.

 

[Swerd]

On my 360s I put a thick stack of insulation on the floor of the cabinet and lined the walls with duct liner. I glued up the rattly magnetic shields and put better insulation in the midrange cup. Also I raised them so that the tweeter was at my ear level.

Talking about Peel-N-Seal reminds me when DIY people used modeling clay (Plasticine) on the metal frames of drivers to "improve" their sound. It was a brief fad that came and went a few years ago.

All kinds of claims were made about improved sound. Somebody, who's autograph you now have, tried it too. But instead of claiming wonderful things, he measured his speakers, before and after adding modeling clay. He could find absolutely no difference.

 

[Alex2507]

Talking about Peel-N-Seal reminds me when DIY people used modeling clay (Plasticine) on the metal frames of drivers to "improve" their sound. It was a brief fad that came and went a few years ago.

All kinds of claims were made about improved sound. Somebody, who's autograph you now have, tried it too. But instead of claiming wonderful things, he measured his speakers, before and after adding modeling clay. He could find absolutely no difference.

Good to know about the clay. I really should figure out how to use REW for measurements. I have the calibrated mic and mixing board for phantom power. The Peel & Seal effect would easily be discernible on a cheap cabinet with a knuckle wrap test. When I was buying a kitchen sink for my sister I saw that the sound proof sinks had patches of something very similar on the sides. Take a look next time you're in Home Depot. Just don't anybody get the idea that you're going to have an easy time of getting that sticky sh!t through a driver hole and stuck neatly onto the inside of a cabinet panel.

I gotta find time to swap out the BR-1s for the MB-27s. Those I can play now.

The next thing I'd like to hear about a mod on the Infinities is from someone else that has gone in. I did what I did a few years ago with materials that I scrounged from work. I mean I was in there stapling sound proof carpet to the floor of the cabinet. It wasn't well thought out or scientific. It seemed like a good idea at the time and only now, thanks to Kurt, are we able to a/b them to stock. I'm glad I did what I did. I wish I had done more but let it be known that it is risky. Is it worth it? Only if you don't f^%& up a woofer by sticking a screw driver through it.

I wonder why and how the angle got built into Kurt's cabinets. I only noticed when they were side by side with the Maple pair. That makes for a tougher build but it does look good. Very sphinx like the way they're leaned back with that grain orientation.

 

[lsiberian]

Talking about Peel-N-Seal reminds me when DIY people used modeling clay (Plasticine) on the metal frames of drivers to "improve" their sound. It was a brief fad that came and went a few years ago.

All kinds of claims were made about improved sound. Somebody, who's autograph you now have, tried it too. But instead of claiming wonderful things, he measured his speakers, before and after adding modeling clay. He could find absolutely no difference.

Peel-N-Seal does deaden the cabinet more, but I'm not sure it's not because of the added mass. I discussed this at length with a mechanical engineer who works with CLD and he thought it was the mass that really made a difference in the speaker. We've seen measurements done by AH on this so it certainly does have an effect. I'm not sure it's worth the extra effort and I'd never use it in a commercial design. If I ever finish my speakers I'll tell you how it sounds. This weekend is promising temp wise and rain wise. Though I need to recut my baffles and I'm really not looking forward to it. Finishing will be a pain and I'm seriously considering getting a pro to do that.

 

[fuzz092888]

If I recall correctly the demo pair with the cabinet redesign had an angled front and rear, but on future builds with the redesign that only the front would be angled. Aesthetic purposes only, possibly minute improvement but not audible. At least I think that's said somewhere in the AVS Phil thread.

 

[nibhaz]

I was happy with them stock, happier with them modified and happiest of all when Kurt whipped out his banana.

Man this thread is getting too much respect or people are just slipping. How has no one jumped on this yet? </SPAN>

I thought he was just giving you speakers…now things are becoming a little clearer </SPAN>