The Great January Audio Gear Exchange

[Swerd]

I knew I’d forget something, and that’s sound detail.

Some speakers seem to hide sound details and some reveal details you didn’t know were on the recording. To generalize, driver diaphragm surfaces that are very light and very stiff reveal more sound detail because they respond quicker to the electrical signal and flex less as they transfer that electrical signal to a mechanical vibration. Metal midwoofers are known for that, but so are magnetic planar or electrostatic film drivers, as well as ribbon tweeters. The Philharmonic series all have a magnetic planar midrange that is remarkably light and responsive. It’s a “fast” midrange. As a result it imparts a highly detailed sound. I should say it loses less sound detail than heavier or more flexible driver diaphragms. The ST drivers are coated paper (on the older versions with the CA15 midwoof) or reed fiber-doped paper (in newer versions with the ER15 midwoofs). Although these are among the more detailed sounding paper drivers I’ve heard, they aren’t as detailed sounding as the midrange in the Philharmonics.

So my list now has 5 sound features:

• Tone Range
• Tone Balance
• Imaging
• Presentation
• Sound Detail

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Swerd, thank the lord you answered me before Alex. It saved us all from "certain parts of my body tingled" descriptors.


Good write up Swerd.

 

[Swerd]

Swerd, thank the lord you answered me before Alex. It saved us all from "certain parts of my body tingled" descriptors.

That would work for me, but the same happens if my phone is set to vibrate, and my pocket is "hanging in" as opposed to "hanging out".

I'd like to hear what Kurt has to say. He's lived with his STs for some time, and will have plenty of time with the Phil 3s. He split his drive home into 2 days, plus he picked up a bad head cold, so I don't expect to hear his detailed listening impressions right away.

 

[Alex2507]

The bass warming up as the distance to boundary decreased makes sense but does little to explain why the little MB-27s sounded so full of bass while they were the furthest out. They might have been my favorite sound of the three ... that would bear further looking into.

Kurt wanted a comparison of the 2 Infinities. A primary quick and dirty test with rolling in the deep revealed that my mod cost some bass range. At first I thought the stock was a little nicer. then we switched back to the modded pair and I realized that while that was true, it was also less boomy and integrated better. Walter the owner of the modded pair said the stock tended to distort a little more with higher frequencies. Given the choice of owning either pair he opted for the modded pair. That's probably part laziness on his part because I think the stock set could be modded in a way that ate up less space and was more resonance resistant. Oh yeah, Walter also mentioned that it was a small difference. I didn't notice what he noticed at all.

I'm making up a switch that would let you a/b from the LP. There's more to come on this. The speakers are to remain w/ Walter for a month. I'll relay his further observations. I'll do probably at least 2 more comparisons myself.

Here's the set up.

What else? Sheesh, what a chore. I'm beat but wanted to get back to Kurt regarding the Infinities. Oh yeah, that distortion on the stock cabinets could easily be attributed to the ringing in the magnetic shields. I thought my raising the modded pair significantly improved the presentation? I have to go back and read Swerd's definition of that again. I am wiped!

Edit: I should mention that while I am glad to have owned the Infinities and Br-1s, I'm beside myself with this upgrade. I preferred the brighter sound of the LCY ribbons. For my ears that was a welcome awakening in the upper part of the response. Even though I'm exhausted, I am thrilled and glad we didn't bother with trying to work the Infinities into the caparison down in MD ... or here for that matter.

 

[Alex2507]

Busted !!!

She asked what the amp was. I told her it was a shoe box. I said I had work boots in there. I thought I was going to die laughing. She was laughing too but still had a few questions and finally she flat out accused me of sneaking it in here. She still hasn't seen the MB-27s. I'm still sneaky and I told her the amp came with the STs. She knew it was extra but I'll never confess. She asked what I spent down there. I told her that I didn't even buy a cup of coffee. Gas was probably less than a hundred bucks. Money 'invested' isn't 'spent', right?

 

[KEW]

The bass warming up as the distance to boundary decreased makes sense but does little to explain why the little MB-27s sounded so full of bass while they were the furthest out. They might have been my favorite sound of the three ... that would bear further looking into.

I liked the bass better on the MB-27's also. To me, it seemed cleaner.
I wonder if you will hear the same when you try them in your room.
My first guess is that the ST's may excite a room mode which "blurrs" the bass when they are playing.

 

[Swerd]

She asked what the amp was. I told her it was a shoe box. I said I had work boots in there. I thought I was going to die laughing. She was laughing too but still had a few questions and finally she flat out accused me of sneaking it in here. She still hasn't seen the MB-27s. I'm still sneaky and I told her the amp came with the STs. She knew it was extra but I'll never confess. She asked what I spent down there. I told her that I didn't even buy a cup of coffee. Gas was probably less than a hundred bucks. Money 'invested' isn't 'spent', right?

Hint that the amp is somehow involved in making that coffee she likes so much.

Don't word it as a fact, but imply it.

Yeah, that's the ticket , it must be a coffee roaster .

 

[Swerd]

The bass warming up as the distance to boundary decreased makes sense but does little to explain why the little MB-27s sounded so full of bass while they were the furthest out. They might have been my favorite sound of the three ... that would bear further looking into.

You could also say the MB27s sounded warmer because they rolled off the upper midrange and treble at lower frequencies than the STs. Two different ways of saying the same thing. It's also possible that the MB27 more closely resemble the sounds of your other speakers than the ST, and you are used to that sound. Wait a week or two and see if your opinions don't change.

A fourth way to think of it is that I built the MB27s, therefore they must be superior .

What else? Sheesh, what a chore. I'm beat but wanted to get back to Kurt regarding the Infinities. Oh yeah, that distortion on the stock cabinets could easily be attributed to the ringing in the magnetic shields. I thought my raising the modded pair significantly improved the presentation? I have to go back and read Swerd's definition of that again. I am wiped!

Yes, it is a chore. Imagine listening to different speaker wires. It's like watching paint dry.

If you read my definition of presentation closely, you'll realize its anything I want it to be.

 

[Swerd]

I liked the bass better on the MB-27's also. To me, it seemed cleaner.
I wonder if you will hear the same when you try them in your room.
My first guess is that the ST's may excite a room mode which "blurrs" the bass when they are playing.

Interesting, you both say that. Don't ask me to explain, I got nothing. When all else fails, blame the room or the listener location.

Kurt - good to hear from you. Your long drive must have been tiring. How's your head cold doing?

 

[KEW]

Well, I'm happy to report that self and Phil3's made it home, safe and sound.
I'll unload the speakers and try to organize some comments tomorrow, but -

Thanks to Richard and Bonnie for hosting Alex, Dan, and I. I had a fantastic time despite being under the weather. Richard is lucky to be married to such a beautiful, kind, and thoughtful woman (her vision may be suspect ).

Big thanks to Dennis for accepting such an assemblage of ne'er-do-wells into his home as a part of my speaker "pick up".

It was definitely a day of good vibes and grins!

 

[Swerd]

The bass warming up as the distance to boundary decreased makes sense but does little to explain why the little MB-27s sounded so full of bass while they were the furthest out. They might have been my favorite sound of the three ... that would bear further looking into.

I liked the bass better on the MB-27's also. To me, it seemed cleaner.
I wonder if you will hear the same when you try them in your room.
My first guess is that the ST's may excite a room mode which "blurrs" the bass when they are playing.

I got a better hand-waving explanation.

What you both heard may be the difference between large and small cabinets. Small cabinets should be more rigid, and have less cabinet resonance than large cabinets.

The Parts Express cabinet is 1" MDF on the front and ¾" MDF everywhere else, internally cross braced, and has curved sides. The Salks have similar MDF thicknesses and plenty of internal cross bracing, so both are of roughly similar construction. The towers have larger surface areas capable of vibrating.

I don't know if this true or not, but it makes more sense than what I said above.

 

[KEW]

Kurt - good to hear from you. Your long drive must have been tiring. How's your head cold doing?

Yeah, I'm pretty beat. I'd be much better off if I wasn't such an idiot and hadn't stayed up into the wee hours with Alex and you.
I'm feeling a good bit better, thanks!

 

[Swerd]

The brisket (a shared family recipe) was great Rich. You post the recipe although I might have to cast you out of the familia for leaking such a treasured secret. I have pictures of one I did on my phone. Here is one I did a while back:

drsdr's Library | Photobucket Nuts the link is to the whole photo library. Go to the sub folder labelled brisket. You can also see my gear of you want as well.

Dan

I just noticed this detail. Many people keep pictures of their girlfriends, wife, kids, pets, or even speakers on their phones.

You have pictures of meat you have cooked and eaten . And I'm related to you and grew up in the same house as you .

 

[Alex2507]

I liked the bass better on the MB-27's also. To me, it seemed cleaner.
I wonder if you will hear the same when you try them in your room.
My first guess is that the ST's may excite a room mode which "blurrs" the bass when they are playing.

Oh good, I'm not crazy then!

I didn't want to say that there because it sounded crazy but that feeling never left me. Frankly I'm happy about it. Rich, I may prefer that sound because of a past familiarity preference. It's all good.

What's really buggin' me is how bad my Infinities sounded today. Maybe the source material was 128 kbps MP3 or something but the comparison was still valid enough for me. Maybe they don't seem like all that anymore because of my recent exposure to Murphy cross overs.

Hint that the amp is somehow involved in making that coffee she likes so much.

Don't word it as a fact, but imply it.

Yeah, that's the ticket , it must be a coffee roaster .

Cheryl already asked me to make her another cup in the AM. I'm going to put the beans on the amp until she's pretty sure I'm messing with her and then I'm going to flip them over so the other side gets warmed up. You think about 12 seconds per side should do it?

We can't have Kurt and I constantly going on about your and Bonnie's awesome hospitality but man, are you guys ever good at that. I'm glad she trusts your judgement. I'm going to mail your sock back to you with the zip lock. Nice sock, btw.

I bolted the plinths on and installed the blunted spikes today. They're sitting in their intended locations and Cheryl is definitely liking the look. Between the STs and the coffee, I'm up in points.

I love staying up late like that and talking. We can catch up on sleep during our normal lives. I know I had to today. I think the only reason I made it home without having to take a roadside nap is because of eating decent meals at your place. I think my extra toast and butter kind of made me tired early on in the drive back but once I got through that it was clear sailing all the way home. The drive actually seemed easy.

This being my normal life means lights out. Oh yeah, by the time I got to Eddie's it was freakin' freezing. You guys have it too easy down there. Kurt, I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the Phil3s. Those Focals lit me up too. Amazing little speaker from where I was sitting.

Go ahead and just try to tell me that's not sexy ...

 

[Adam]

I'm going to mail your sock back to you with the zip lock. Nice sock, btw.

Rich, you might want to burn that sock.

 

[Swerd]

Rich, you might want to burn that sock.

This wasn't really a sock, but Alex can never resist the urge to throw you a verbal bone to chew.

It was a plastic zip lock bag with a one-way air valve to keep roasted coffee fresher.

1/4 Lb. Clear Valve Bag - Valve Bags and Tins for Roasted Coffee - Coffee Storage - Everyone's Favorite Miscellaneous

 

[Adam]

This wasn't really a sock, but Alex can never resist the urge to throw you a verbal bone to chew.

I don't think "chew" is what he's after, but I see what happened there. The deception runs deep here in the A-H.

It was a plastic zip lock bag with a one-way air valve to keep roasted coffee fresher.

1/4 Lb. Clear Valve Bag - Valve Bags and Tins for Roasted Coffee - Coffee Storage - Everyone's Favorite Miscellaneous

Cool! Embarrassingly, it never occurred to me that regular people could buy those. The single-cup coffee pods that I've been buying lately from San Francisco Bay Coffee used to come in sealed versions of those, but the past couple of orders don't include the valves. I guess their studies showed that consumers were still happy enough with the coffee, and it saved them some money.

 

[Dan]

Dan

I just noticed this detail. Many people keep pictures of their girlfriends, wife, kids, pets, or even speakers on their phones.

You have pictures of meat you have cooked and eaten . And I'm related to you and grew up in the same house as you .

It is said that there are three stages of adult life. In the first stage one wants really great sex. In the second stage one wants a really great meal and in the third a really great bowel movement. I guess at 51 I'm squarely in the second stage. You are thirteen years older...

 

[Swerd]

It is said that there are three stages of adult life. In the first stage one wants really great sex. In the second stage one wants a really great meal and in the third a really great bowel movement. I guess at 51 I'm squarely in the second stage. You are thirteen years older...

That may be true, but I don't keep any photos of that on my cell phone.

 

[ImcLoud]

That is done really well, thanks for the email.... I am going to try that this weekend, my sons go to a private academy and my wife and some other parents and local business owners donate funds to cover tuition so some of the exceptional public school children can attend, and this weekend they are meeting to go over some of the applicants...

We are probably going to have 15-20 people here, so should I do a few small ones or a single big one? By butcher will cut me anything I want, we entertain A LOT, when I call him, he set his phone to ring with the ABBA's money money money {true story, he actually made me call it while I was there one day to show me, I didn't know whether to be offended or what?}....