Ten Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

[MTNbike]

Short term HD DVD will win

Regardless of how much better other formats may be, it is beta versus vhs all over.
Ultimately cost drives the industry. When you can simply stamp out HD DVD's versus a much more expensive blue ray disk manufacturing process. Does anybody doubt that the market will be flooded with HD DVD's and that will be what we live with for the next ten years?????

 

[therealco]

I Disagree.

Okay... Well, you write like you're a smart guy. That may be. However, there definitely IS a format war going on. High Definition is in, and not just a niche market. Larger TV sets require higher resolution. DVD simply can't provide those kinds of numbers. So there has to be a whole new format. Whether or not it will be HD DVD or Blu Ray or something completely different is a whole other discussion.

Am I glad that a change is coming so quickly? Not really. But it is bound to happen, and at least you can still play your regular DVDs on either of player. To argue with you're major technological jump segment about VHS to DVD being huge because it's a whole new looking device, I think that has nothing to do with it. Are you telling me you'd rather have a whole new machine that CANT play your old DVDs, but make the discs loook different? I would be quite pissed off in that case.

And yes, there was a format war before with VHS and Beta tapes. This will undoubtedly be the case yet again for HD DVD and Blu Ray. Personally, I think Blu Ray is the obvious winner. It is theoretically better, holding 25 gigs per layer and allowing multiple layers, while HD DVD only holds a mere 15 gigs per layer and being limited to 2 layers. Had the Xbox 360 come equipped with HD DVD built in, the war may never end. Since the PS3 does come with Blu Ray capability, the format is not going to just disappear. It will definitely be around for as long as the PS3, which will be quite a while.

All in all, high definition has not failed, nor will it fail. Everybody wants higher quality video. One way or another high definition is in. It's just a matter of time before one specific format is picked and then the prices will finally begin to drop to a reasonable level. It has already begun. And the discs themselves are actually quite reasonably priced in comparison with regular DVDs.

Long Live Blu Ray!

 

[Audioholics]

High Definition is in, and not just a niche market.

Well, go ask your Dad or Uncle about HD DVD and Blu-ray and see if they're rushing out to buy it. The HD disc formats are currently very niche.

Long Live Blu Ray!

And unbiased I see. Nice first post - welcome to Audioholics.

 

[therealco]

High Def... Not Niche

Well, biased because it's very obvious to see that it is much better than HD DVD. Why HD DVD exists is beyond me. Statistically speaking, Blu Ray is simply better.

As for the niche part, well, High Definition is not niche, by any means. Which is what I was talking about. High Def is quite mainstream. HD DVD or Blu Ray, for the moment may be slightly niche. Until one of the two is finalized as a standard... probably Blu Ray.

 

[obscbyclouds]

You know, statistically speaking, Betamax was better than VHS. Still got that Betamax player around?

 

[MDS]

Until one of the two is finalized as a standard... probably Blu Ray.

The whole point is that there is no standard and none is currently under discussion. They are two competing formats with the same objective - HD video. The market will choose the winner and as Clint pointed out in another editorial, the market chooses low cost and availability. It's anybody's guess whether one, the other, or neither becomes the de facto standard.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Why HD DVD exists is beyond me. Statistically speaking, Blu Ray is simply better.
.

Better in what respect, statistically speaking, of course?

 

[therealco]

Yes. They hope to achieve the same thing, HIGH DEF. High definition video is mainstream. I'm simply saying that there needs to be a means of giving high def to the people. The original article was saying that High Definition is merely a fad. When in fact, the fad will either be HD DVD or Blu Ray.

I do see you're point about Beta being better than VHS. And it isn't around any more. Which is what made me skeptical at first which was going to win. Since Blu Ray has the advantage of being better in terms of being able to hold much larger amounts of data if needed.

A single layered Blu Ray disc is almost capable of holding the same information a dual layered HD DVD can hold. 25 gigs per layer. They also allow many layers, whereas HD DVD has only a maximum of 2 layers. Blu Ray discs can hold up to 250 gigs of data. HD DVD is limited at 30 gigs.

Besides the fact that it is better with pure statistics, it has Sony to back it with it's PS3 system, meaning that as long as the PS3 is around, blu ray will be around. The only thing HD DVD is good for is for movies. Therefore Blu Ray has alot more going for it. Hence the reason why Blu Ray will be the victor in the format war. The only thing I can see that would get in it's way would be the introduction of another medium to the front.

 

[avaserfi]

Yes. They hope to achieve the same thing, HIGH DEF. High definition video is mainstream. I'm simply saying that there needs to be a means of giving high def to the people. The original article was saying that High Definition is merely a fad. When in fact, the fad will either be HD DVD or Blu Ray.

The article wasn't saying that HD is a fad. It seemed more like he was saying that most people don't care and it will become a niche market similar to DVD-A and SACD.

I do see you're point about Beta being better than VHS. And it isn't around any more. Which is what made me skeptical at first which was going to win. Since Blu Ray has the advantage of being better in terms of being able to hold much larger amounts of data if needed.

In reality what movies won't fit on an HD DVD that will fit on a BD due to size difference? Also, HD DVD is not limited to two layers the HD DVD camp is working on adding more layers as we speak.

A single layered Blu Ray disc is almost capable of holding the same information a dual layered HD DVD can hold. 25 gigs per layer. They also allow many layers, whereas HD DVD has only a maximum of 2 layers. Blu Ray discs can hold up to 250 gigs of data. HD DVD is limited at 30 gigs.

Again, quality doesn't always win these situations, it is what mass consumers adopt which is far more price based.

Besides the fact that it is better with pure statistics, it has Sony to back it with it's PS3 system, meaning that as long as the PS3 is around, blu ray will be around. The only thing HD DVD is good for is for movies. Therefore Blu Ray has alot more going for it. Hence the reason why Blu Ray will be the victor in the format war. The only thing I can see that would get in it's way would be the introduction of another medium to the front.

Yes BD will be around as long as the PS3 is just like UMD will be around as long as the PSP is big win . The ps3 will not win this war, but it might help.

edit: By the way I am a BD supporter all the way but not because I think it is a far superior, but because of studio support and the fact that I wanted a next gen system and the Wii didn't qualify and I don't need a new heater (360).

 

[therealco]

Yeah, I am obviously pro BD. I think that they should settle on one single format. Many studios do support BD, that could change in the future. Hopefully they will settle soon on which will be the standard.

 

[patnshan]

I have had some time to think about this, and have since taken Amazon up on their steal of a deal "mistake" and am awaiting my HD DVD player (A2) being delivered today.
I was going to wait it out, but the player (with free discs) hit a price point that I couldn't say no to. I think that is what needs to happen for a lot of people. MANY jumped on the HD DVD bandwagon this week because of this deal. I think this sort of thing will continue to happen. A $400 PS3 will not make that happen. A $200 PS3 and/or player may.
Joe Six Pack will replace his DVD player with one of these when needed, but only if the price is right. The price was never right for an SACD player.

Pat

 

[stratman]

You younger guys might not remember this, but when LD came out there were some great incentives put forth by the manufacturers in order to entice takers, I remember at one time when you bought the Pioneer LD player you could get 3 free discs and yet look at what happened to LD, it never stopped being a niche curiosity, marketing would have you believe it was the panacea for A/V, and it's physical limitations notwithstanding it wasn't a bad medium for it's time, but the machines were expensive and the media was large. The public was very happy with the inferior VHS tape, it was cheap, you could buy the tapes absolutely anywhere, easy to store and easy to handle, just what average joe likes. Blu-ray HD DVD as it stands right now are niche players, average Joe is happy with their DVD discs, "why spend more on a new machine that does the same thing, costs more and now I have to start a new collection of DVD (which I already own most) duplicates at more cost." The advantage of low cost players is that it will allow A/V nuts to experience the technology without going broke, but to expect the mass public to go running to Wal-Mart and plunk down 150.00 for a DVD player that they "already" have is wishful thinking.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...average Joe is happy with their DVD discs, "why spend more on a new machine that does the same thing, costs more and now I have to start a new collection of DVD (which I already own most) duplicates at more cost."

Until Blu-ray or HD DVD blank discs become extremely cheap & available everywhere and people can burn movies just like they can with DVDs right now, blu-ray & HD DVD will remain a niche. A lot of the new SD DVDs look so good when upscale to 1080i, especially on TVs that are less than 50". So most people will just say, "Why spend all the money on new hardware and software when I can upscale ALL of my SD DVDs to 1080i?"

 

[GlocksRock]

Very true... my Oppo does a great job of upscaling. The benefit of upgrading to HD-DVD or Bluray for me would be for the better audio. But most people either wouldn't care, or wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway, nor would they want to pay more for a movie in the new format when the regular dvd costs less.

 

[stratman]

The bottom line is: money. We're headed for tight economic times, most people don't see the need to spend money on "another" DVD player.

 

[mtrycrafts]

The bottom line is: money. We're headed for tight economic times, most people don't see the need to spend money on "another" DVD player.

Yet, they are gobbling up the 1080p Tvs when no such broadcast is on the radar screen.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yes. They hope to achieve the same thing, HIGH DEF. High definition video is mainstream. I'm simply saying that there needs to be a means of giving high def to the people. The original article was saying that High Definition is merely a fad. When in fact, the fad will either be HD DVD or Blu Ray.

I do see you're point about Beta being better than VHS. And it isn't around any more. Which is what made me skeptical at first which was going to win. Since Blu Ray has the advantage of being better in terms of being able to hold much larger amounts of data if needed.

A single layered Blu Ray disc is almost capable of holding the same information a dual layered HD DVD can hold. 25 gigs per layer. They also allow many layers, whereas HD DVD has only a maximum of 2 layers. Blu Ray discs can hold up to 250 gigs of data. HD DVD is limited at 30 gigs.

Besides the fact that it is better with pure statistics, it has Sony to back it with it's PS3 system, meaning that as long as the PS3 is around, blu ray will be around. The only thing HD DVD is good for is for movies. Therefore Blu Ray has alot more going for it. Hence the reason why Blu Ray will be the victor in the format war. The only thing I can see that would get in it's way would be the introduction of another medium to the front.

Yet, with all that storage capacity, 90% of their discs use the inferior Mpeg2 video coding.
And, I don't know of a movie needing more than 30gigs of storage, do you?

 

[stratman]

Yes. But, have you seen the prices of high def tvs? The Panny 42" (720p) 1025.00, the Panny 50" 1080p 2500.00, Comparing what you're getting is apples to oranges, hi-def tvs are the norm, Panny stopped building their 42"ED tv, I saw that last year around Christmas for 975.00 at BrandSmart here in Miami, they sold out in two days. The high def replacement (720p) 1025.00 at BB!! That's cheap for an excellent quality tv. The consumer sees Blu-ray/HD DVD as not giving so much bang for the buck, after all "they already have a dvd player."

 

[mtrycrafts]

A $200 PS3 and/or player may.
Joe Six Pack will replace his DVD player with one of these when needed, but only if the price is right. The price was never right for an SACD player.
Pat

At $200, I might even pick one up to be neutral

 

[mtrycrafts]

You younger guys might not remember this, but when LD came out there were some great incentives put forth by the manufacturers in order to entice takers, I remember at one time when you bought the Pioneer LD player you could get 3 free discs and yet look at what happened to LD, it never stopped being a niche curiosity, marketing would have you believe it was the panacea for A/V, and it's physical limitations notwithstanding it wasn't a bad medium for it's time, but the machines were expensive and the media was large. The public was very happy with the inferior VHS tape, it was cheap, you could buy the tapes absolutely anywhere, easy to store and easy to handle, just what average joe likes. Blu-ray HD DVD as it stands right now are niche players, average Joe is happy with their DVD discs, "why spend more on a new machine that does the same thing, costs more and now I have to start a new collection of DVD (which I already own most) duplicates at more cost." The advantage of low cost players is that it will allow A/V nuts to experience the technology without going broke, but to expect the mass public to go running to Wal-Mart and plunk down 150.00 for a DVD player that they "already" have is wishful thinking.

Yes, but didn't you replace that 20 year old car? Or your VCR tape collection, unless it is just collecting dust and taking up space, like in my cabinet?

No, I don't want to replace my DVDs, but when you are watching a 114" theater, boy, there is no discussion of the outcome. Life is a replacement process