Ten Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

[stratman]

Yes my friend, but that is a very small segment of the buying public, most can be found here And you're right, we must keep those two billion Chinese employed or they'll nuke us!

 

[mtrycrafts]

A lot of the new SD DVDs look so good when upscale to 1080i, especially on TVs that are less than 50". So most people will just say, "Why spend all the money on new hardware and software when I can upscale ALL of my SD DVDs to 1080i?"

Yes, of course, but why are people gobbling up the 50" or smaller 1080p TVs at a premium over the 720p? We have been conditioned by the marketeers that we need the latest and greatest. Yesterday is history, tomorrow is too slow in coming.

 

[stratman]

Marketers rule the planet, trust me.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yes. But, have you seen the prices of high def tvs? The Panny 42" (720p) 1025.00, the Panny 50" 1080p 2500.00, Comparing what you're getting is apples to oranges, hi-def tvs are the norm, Panny stopped building their 42"ED tv, I saw that last year around Christmas for 975.00 at BrandSmart here in Miami, they sold out in two days. The high def replacement (720p) 1025.00 at BB!! That's cheap for an excellent quality tv. The consumer sees Blu-ray/HD DVD as not giving so much bang for the buck, after all "they already have a dvd player."

How about the price of the two 50" 720p and 1080p? At the viewing distances most watch, plus no 1080p broadcast, why spend that $x premium? People do to watch 480i DVDs up-scaled?
If they but it for high def video, they will upgrade the player as the prices drop. What is $150 when they just bought a $2500 TV?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Marketers rule the planet, trust me.

Yes, and I feel so lonely

 

[stratman]

How about the price of the two 50" 720p and 1080p? At the viewing distances most watch, plus no 1080p broadcast, why spend that $x premium? People do to watch 480i DVDs up-scaled?
If they but it for high def video, they will upgrade the player as the prices drop. What is $150 when they just bought a $2500 TV?

That depends on the buyer, is he/she tech driven? People are buying the high def tvs because it's really the only option left and yes 150.00 will be enticement enough to a greater amount of buyers than before, but remember also that the market for flat panels is basically saturated, so those buying now will have a better incentive than those already that have adopted. Rule of thumb: early adopters get burned, that law is inviolable. So now you have to get those person that bought to go back and spend more money on another dvd player. Most people aren't tech driven.

 

[mtrycrafts]

That depends on the buyer, is he/she tech driven? People are buying the high def tvs because it's really the only option left and yes 150.00 will be enticement enough to a greater amount of buyers than before, but remember also that the market for flat panels is basically saturated, so those buying now will have a better incentive than those already that have adopted. Rule of thumb: early adopters get burned, that law is inviolable. So now you have to get those person that bought to go back and spend more money on another dvd player. Most people aren't tech driven.

Well, the flat screen market has one more buyer in the near future, me I will be looking for a 720p though, if I can still find them, and only 37"

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We have been conditioned by the marketeers that we need the latest and greatest. Yesterday is history, tomorrow is too slow in coming.

Well, that's Audioholics thinking! The rest of the population doesn't think like we do. If they came out with something better tomorrow, I'm buying. I'm not going to think about whether it's going to be around 1, 2, 3 years....I'm going to enjoy it now. But the rest of the population doesn't think like this.

 

[therealco]

Joe Six Pack will replace his DVD player with one of these when needed, but only if the price is right. The price was never right for an SACD player.

Yeah, that says it all, really. For now, the war will still go on. But, as prices continue to drop, and when the price of the PS3 does come down a little, alot of people will be owning a PS3, which comes Blu Ray equipped. Many people, including myself, are waiting for the prices to drop, and when I can afford a PS3, I won't be buying any HD DVD player, especially if I already own a Blu Ray player such as the PS3. I think that's something that Blu Ray has going for it also.

So when the prices do fall and Joe Six Pack's kids want a PS3 for Christmas, they will have a BD capable machine. They will probably want BluRay movies, and not HD DVD.

Of course, if the price is never right. It will never catch on. Hopefully Blu Ray will join the bandwagon for low prices soon enough!

 

[Sniperslayer]

will be interesting to see where it goes

 

[Alamar]

I tend to think that the whole "format" war is just squabbling over nickles & dimes by short-sighted, greedy corporations.

Of the 10 points I believe that point 4 is by far the most relevant. If a company / coalition really wanted to win the Hi-Def war they'd:

1. Stop making DVD-only packages.
2. While keeping at [or within 2$] of the old DVD price expectations they would bundle the DVD and the Hi-DEF version of the movie on separate disks.
3. They would get player prices down to 99 [chinese knock-off], 129 [bottom of name brand cat], 149 [middle of the road w/ good features], 199 [fully featured]

Until movement on 1-3 is done we're going to see pathetically low numbers of sales figures. [Niche # of sales]

BTW: While I admit that physically the BR product has better capacity and allows for higher data rates [huge wins for me BTW] I still would prefer to see HD-DVD win the war because they have less DRM, should have a less expensive product [even though they may be too greedy to push thier price advantages ... grrrr], are less restrictive on region coding IIRC, are happy to support managed copy, etc.

BR lost my support when they cow-towed to the DRM croud and forgot to ask the consumer what they might actually want.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I tend to think that the whole "format" war is just squabbling over nickles & dimes by short-sighted, greedy corporations.
.

I'd be happy with those pennies

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Well, go ask your Dad or Uncle about HD DVD and Blu-ray and see if they're rushing out to buy it. The HD disc formats are currently very niche.

Always nice to see a touch of sarcasim in your posts. Uhhh, my dad isn't rushing out to buy DVD either, so that point doesn't prove too much.

PS - Last time I pointed out Clint's sarcasim, he gave me a very large amount of negative rep - a real fair player, eh, Clint?

 

[bobnegi]

I lost interest

About a year ago, I was wildly excited about buying a 1080p projector and HD DVD player. The more I read on these forums, I realize now that it is only an obsession for the latest, greatest, mines bigger, and all that

I do not care anymore, I will wait, just like I did with DVD's. When I go to the local video store and 1/2 or more of the rentals are in one or the other format, that’s when I will consider the upgrade to 720p/1080p nirvana

As an aside, the reason I still like VHS (but do not watch it). How many of you have accidentally hit the wrong button on the DVD remote, and wound up back to the menu? Drives me nuts

Mind you, I still love watching all the different opinions and point of views on these forums

 

[stratman]

About a year ago, I was wildly excited about buying a 1080p projector and HD DVD player. The more I read on these forums, I realize now that it is only an obsession for the latest, greatest, mines bigger, and all that

I do not care anymore, I will wait, just like I did with DVD's. When I go to the local video store and 1/2 or more of the rentals are in one or the other format, that’s when I will consider the upgrade to 720p/1080p nirvana

As an aside, the reason I still like VHS (but do not watch it). How many of you have accidentally hit the wrong button on the DVD remote, and wound up back to the menu? Drives me nuts

Mind you, I still love watching all the different opinions and point of views on these forums

Well if one good thing came from this thread is that it brought a fellow Audioholic to his senses! You're one amongst the majority who's waiting to see where the trainwreck called hi-def dvd will finally stop. My guess is that by end of Q4 one will be really ahead (after Christmas) and it'll take the rest of next year to finish off the straggler, again this is my opinion as anything can happen with this onion! BTW, I really thought that by this summer's end the whole issue would have been wrapped up, but not yet!

 

[JackT]

I think the fact that hi-def disc formats are not a revolutionary improvement over DVD is irrelevent. This is because the new disc formats represent the same incremental improvement over DVD that HDTV provides over SDTV. The question is: do you want to watch hi-def movies on your hi-def TV? The answer is YES. Therefore hi-def disc players are needed and will be bought. A revolutionary technology is pointless with an incrementally improved TV.

HD cable/sattelite seems to be doing pretty well. People are just plain going to want to get HD movies on disc. Once you go HD you never go back.

Plus, don't HD players play DVDs also? I think people will treat the new players as fancy new DVD players.

As far as the new formats having a rocky or false start goes, who knows about any of that except enthusiasts, who, BTW, have bought every player that is available? How smooth was the rollout of VHS and DVD? The first players were probably crap bought only by early adopter types. Only nobody knew because there was no internet.

Which brings up the "jaded enthusiast" point. Who is responsible for buying every HD-DVD player that was available? Care to take bets on how many Blu-Ray units will be left after release, even at $1K a pop?

The examples of other failed formats is, I think, also irrelevent. Again, you have all those HDTVs out there. The viewers are all out there, waiting for players.

PS3: nobody cares.

Well, 18 months later and I'm increasingly comfortable with my "way off base" vote. I think, at this point, the only way to maintain that both Hi-def formats have already failed is to believe that consumers will not want physical media for hi-def content. (Why they would want discs for SD content but not HD is beyond me.)

My understanding is that hi-def players have already seen an adoption rate similar to DVD at the same point. This should only improve now that the format war has ended!

 

[Thunder18]

Here, here. Anyone that was on the fence because they didn't want to be stuck with the losing format really has no excuse anymore...except the whole Blu-Ray profile deal, but even then any player should be able to play any movie. It's just the advanced features that may be unaccessible.

 

[Pyrrho]

Here, here. Anyone that was on the fence because they didn't want to be stuck with the losing format really has no excuse anymore...except the whole Blu-Ray profile deal, but even then any player should be able to play any movie [emphasis added]. It's just the advanced features that may be unaccessible.

The trouble is, the players that have been sold cannot reliably play the discs that have already been made. Don't believe me? Just take a look at the reviews of players over at www.amazon.com and see the trouble that people have with them. I think a lot of people don't want to buy something that does not work properly. Until one can simply walk into a store and buy a player that plays the discs properly, without first doing extensive research to see which players to avoid, there will be a great deal of reluctance to adopt the format.

 

[Biggiesized]

That and not every player is fully equipped to handle every feature (DTS-HD MA, etc.) and upcoming ones (BD-Live) at a reasonable price (<$200).

 

[stratman]

I'm waiting till Black Friday, by then Sony's new players will be out, hopefully Panny's and Oppo's too. We'll know who's got the bugs out and software prices will still be going South, besides I waited out the war, what's 8 more months, the waiting is half the fun.