tekton - the next big thing?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Shhhhhhhhh. You own B&W

Oh, hey, TLS Guy can tell you the 800D sound pretty good.

Andrew Robinson must have had a case of acute psychosis if he gave up his 800D for Tekton. No other explanation.

 

[ridikas]

I was just giving you a hard time

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was just giving you a hard time

Well...........I knew that. Of course. I mean. Yeah. I knew that.

 

[whasaaaab]

We only have the word of Andrew Robinson that those drivers are full range.

He also said the tweeters were sourced from Scanspeak when in fact they are SB.

The tweeters have a low FS, but are high Q 0.45 and so can not be driven through FS.

So I did some doodling with the drivers in question. I used two of the Eminence 16 ohm speakers in parallel and three of the SB tweeters in series.

I used a second order crossover at 1000 Hz for the woofers and a fourth order crossover for the tweeters at 1800 Hz. This gave a symmetrical fourth order composite crossover for the system at around 2200 Hz.

This gives a mid band response +/- 3db. However the woofers have to be driven well into the break up range. How those woofers actually sound in the break up range I can't tell, but the peaked response is dealt with in the crossover.

However the frequency response model is not that bad. The drivers are pretty much in phase at the crossover point. The impedance is pretty much uniformly 8 ohm except for a peak at crossover. So it should be an easy drive.

With the crossover losses, the estimated sensitivity is 95 db and not the 98 db claimed for the Tektron.

If the woofers are not crossed over then the sensitivity would be 98 db, because of the severely peaked response.

Overall the modeled frequency response is better than I expected. The impedance and phase plots are superior.

I have no idea if the Tektron has circuity remotely close to my model.

You can view my model here.

Hey i remeber them saying it was a bass guitar subwoofer from the eminence line here are 3 of them, but only the beta one has the sensitvity advertised. Can you increase the sensitivity of a speaker to what there advertising?

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

The one that looks exactly and i mean exactly like the pendragon woofer is the BP102 right down to the colour, but the sensitivity is only 92db. Eminience makes customer drivers for eric he said, so could they tweek it to make it 98db

wouldnt that make the tests a bit off if its not the same driver in a way?

The tweeters quote from the review
the one-inch tweeters are of a proprietary design unique to the Pendragon, courtesy of one of the lead designers at ScanSpeak, possessing a flexible ring around the dome with a pronounced dimple resting dead center, hence the tweeters' name: dimple-dome

Eric crosses over to the tweeter array before the measured breakup region, which I suppose limits the drivers to their comfort zone. I’ve noticed no notching or suckouts

 

[ridikas]

Who cares?

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey i remeber them saying it was a bass guitar subwoofer from the eminence line here are 3 of them, but only the beta one has the sensitvity advertised. Can you increase the sensitivity of a speaker to what there advertising?

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

The one that looks exactly and i mean exactly like the pendragon woofer is the BP102 down to the colour, but the sensitivity is only 92db. Eminience makes customer drivers for eric he said, so could they tweek it to make it 98db

wouldnt that make the tests a bit off if its not the same driver in a way?

The tweeters quote from the review
the one-inch tweeters are of a proprietary design unique to the Pendragon, courtesy of one of the lead designers at ScanSpeak, possessing a flexible ring around the dome with a pronounced dimple resting dead center, hence the tweeters' name: dimple-dome

You have the wrong woofers, look at my model to see the correct one. It is 98 db sens, but when you take the peaks out and the loss from the crossover it drops to 95 db.

As I have said in this post there is a inverse relationship between flux density and Fs. So lowering sensitivity increases bass extension.

I don't think there is anything custom about those tweeters. There is a BS factor there.

 

[cschang]

I don't think there is anything custom about those tweeters. There is a BS factor there.

It takes a decent quantity order to get a driver customized.

It should also be pretty easy to tell if the driver is not off the shelf by just taking one out and looking at the model#.

 

[whasaaaab]

You have the wrong woofers, look at my model to see the correct one. It is 98 db sens, but when you take the peaks out and the loss from the crossover it drops to 95 db.

As I have said in this post there is a inverse relationship between flux density and Fs. So lowering sensitivity increases bass extension.

I don't think there is anything custom about those tweeters. There is a BS factor there.

eminence cross overs link for their woofers, not sure if this can help in anyway

Crossover networks - Eminence PX Crossovers - Eminence PX speaker crossovers for 2-way or 3-way speaker applications

check out the pics i wonder if this is a customer pendragon or he changed his design this year from last years. On eof the reviews had these up. Port holes are in the front and the pendragon are in the back hmmm

AudiogoN Reviews: Tekton Design Pendragon Speaker

 

[daxriggs]

All this talk about drives got me wondering, so I took out one of the woofers and it didn't have a model number on it, the sticker did say Legend though. I was going to take a tweeter out, but when I took the screws out it didn't want to come out without some prying and I didn't want to damage anything.

 

[TLS Guy]

eminence cross overs link for their woofers, not sure if this can help in anyway

Crossover networks - Eminence PX Crossovers - Eminence PX speaker crossovers for 2-way or 3-way speaker applications

check out the pics i wonder if this is a customer pendragon or he changed his design this year from last years. On eof the reviews had these up. Port holes are in the front and the pendragon are in the back hmmm

AudiogoN Reviews: Tekton Design Pendragon Speaker

Those crossovers are absolutely useless for anything.

 

[jonnythan]

Those crossovers are absolutely useless for anything.

Out of curiosity, why?

 

[GranteedEV]

Out of curiosity, why?

They're generic electrical crossovers. They simply don't factor in native driver response or the many swings in driver impedance. Such crossovers as those would only be useful if a driver were infinitely flat and pistonic, while also having a ruler flat impedance curve.

And even if the above were true, those crossovers would STILLfnot factor in the losses in forward radiated sound below the baffle step, or the difference in acoustic centers and thus relative phase between different drivers.

 

[TLS Guy]

Out of curiosity, why?

Because every crossover has to be custom for every driver and driver combination.

Electrical slopes can never be determined is isolation, but in conjunction with the acoustic response of every driver you work with.

Further they have no idea where the crossover point will be with any given driver.

You have to design and choose the components to the Re, Z and and Le and sensitivity of the driver.

The crossover points will shift easily 1 KHz depending on those values for any given driver. Some drivers with rapidly rising impedance with frequency will not even cut off at all with cookie cutter crossover like that.

My model of this speaker is a case in point. The 10" woofers crossover electrically second order at 1 kHz with an Eq network. The tweeters crossover electrically at 1.8 kHz but the crossover ends up as a symmetrical fourth order crossover at 2.2 kHz.

 

[ridikas]

I've played around with a few different 10" Eminence woofers in Unibox. The Pendragons have a huge cabinet of approximately 120 liters. Even with that volume, two of those woofers have a rather limited bass extension. Furthermore, they go way over excursion with just a few watts. X-max on most of these woofers is only 3-3.5mm.

 

[Audio_Karma]

Andrew Robinson , the guy that wrote the Home Theater Equipment review came on the AVS Forum, maybe we can get him to come on this forum too.

Salk vs Tekton Pendragon

 

[Audio_Karma]

Did you all see this ?

RELEASE: Utah Based Loudspeaker Manufacturer, Tekton Design, Becomes Indie Film’s Professional Loudspeaker Sponsor

 

[ridikas]

Lol !! !! !!

 

[fuzz092888]

Seems silly to me that Andrew Robinson would make those comments, then never respond. Why say anything at all? It seems like he was only trying to stir the pot to get people to come over to his forum.

"I don't hang out on AVS very much" or whatever he said, just sounds like "I only come here to incite conversation and force people to come to me (IE my forum) to get the answers that I only come here to make them want more."

Good questions were raised, but his refusal to participate and the whole non disclosure agreement thing raises serious red flags to me.

I'm not trying to hate on the pendragons, but IMO this isn't the way to go about selling them. Secrets and unanswered questions and reviews by a reviewer who doesn't believe in measurements.

I know my fanboy is showing, but Philharmonic Audio, another ID company will give you the answer to pretty much any question you have about the speaker. Any measurements you want you can probably get as well. I have yet to hear from anyone who has come away from talking to Dennis and been disappointed.

I'm sure there are tons of other ID companies that are much more forthcoming with information as well. To me, transparency is important from companies that are going to get my hard earned money.

I don't, personally, come away with a ton of positives from those two links.

 

[whasaaaab]

Seems silly to me that Andrew Robinson would make those comments, then never respond. Why say anything at all? It seems like he was only trying to stir the pot to get people to come over to his forum.

"I don't hang out on AVS very much" or whatever he said, just sounds like "I only come here to incite conversation and force people to come to me (IE my forum) to get the answers that I only come here to make them want more."

Good questions were raised, but his refusal to participate and the whole non disclosure agreement thing raises serious red flags to me.

I'm not trying to hate on the pendragons, but IMO this isn't the way to go about selling them. Secrets and unanswered questions and reviews by a reviewer who doesn't believe in measurements.

I know my fanboy is showing, but Philharmonic Audio, another ID company will give you the answer to pretty much any question you have about the speaker. Any measurements you want you can probably get as well. I have yet to hear from anyone who has come away from talking to Dennis and been disappointed.

I'm sure there are tons of other ID companies that are much more forthcoming with information as well. To me, transparency is important from companies that are going to get my hard earned money.

I don't, personally, come away with a ton of positives from those two links.

the reason andrew went into the salk vs tekton is i asked him too, there was alot of back and forth comments about the review so on his forum for the tekton pendragons on hometheatreequipment i said come over and please answer some question and he did. but he aslso said he would normally not do that, go into different forums etc...

I am sure if someone else went on to his pendragon thread he would come over into this one and say some stuff
Tekton Design Pendragon Loudspeaker -The OFFICIAL Thread

the upgrade vaneer he has on his thread looks sweet thou bmw metalik grey its nice.

 

[fuzz092888]

That's my point though. He emerged, posted twice. Never fully answered all questions or responses and never showed back up. Why come over at all if he was going to leave people hanging. It's not like the two guys who made comments or had questions were random guys. Rick Craig and Dennis Murphy are two guys who know what they're talking about and Dennis had some legitimate questions that were asked in a friendly way. Still no response.

Like I said, it looks more like he was baiting and trying to reel some people into coming over into his forum. Especially since there was no hostility (that I could see) to drive him away or keep him from coming back to answer those questions.