tekton - the next big thing?

[whasaaaab]

All this talk about drives got me wondering, so I took out one of the woofers and it didn't have a model number on it, the sticker did say Legend though. I was going to take a tweeter out, but when I took the screws out it didn't want to come out without some prying and I didn't want to damage anything.

TLS Guy and Swerd in the legend series since we now know what series of woofer is he is using, in that series they do not have 200w woofers. then it has to be a custom driver he is using?
Speaker Components | Eminence Speaker

This thread is so educational let me tell you, Someone was selling there review pair of pendragons, in his descriptions he mentions triple array of SB Acoustics tweeters and Additional internal dampening at factory. whst would the additional internal dampening do?

 

[jcl]

Did you all see this ?

RELEASE: Utah Based Loudspeaker Manufacturer, Tekton Design, Becomes Indie Film’s Professional Loudspeaker Sponsor

So am I reading this right? The same Andrew Robinson who gave the rave review, who said he sold his B&W's and switched to the Tektons, is having his film sponsored by Tekton? Even if they are only providing speakers, it seems to be conflict of interest.

NDA, cap upgrade, now this.

 

[whasaaaab]

That's my point though. He emerged, posted twice. Never fully answered all questions or responses and never showed back up. Why come over at all if he was going to leave people hanging. It's not like the two guys who made comments or had questions were random guys. Rick Craig and Dennis Murphy are two guys who know what they're talking about and Dennis had some legitimate questions that were asked in a friendly way. Still no response.

Like I said, it looks more like he was baiting and trying to reel some people into coming over into his forum. Especially since there was no hostility (that I could see) to drive him away or keep him from coming back to answer those questions.

the guys are good learning alot, i understand what you saying, when you have your own forum why would you want to go into another forum. I would love to hear what he would say from reading everything in this thread.

The questions here are alot more sophisticated and detailed and so are the responses from the well knowledgeable people here. I think it would be good if he did come into this thread, I found this thread afterwards.

The reason i a digging so much is if i did not like the sound for some reason i would be out at least $750 ( %15 restocking fee plus all around shiiping) I dont have $$$$ to waste. And if i did like it i would have to pay shipping for the return becausei would want to upgrade to vaneers

 

[whasaaaab]

So am I reading this right? The same Andrew Robinson who gave the rave review, who said he sold his B&W's and switched to the Tektons, is having his film sponsored by Tekton? Even if they are only providing speakers, it seems to be conflict of interest.

NDA, cap upgrade, now this.

the cap upgrade andew told me not to get because it souns just fine the way it is and it probably wont too much of a significant change. But now he knows which mcaps you would get.

after the pic was posted of the upgrade his comment was wo its a significant upgrade so its like hmmmmm

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So am I reading this right? The same Andrew Robinson who gave the rave review, who said he sold his B&W's and switched to the Tektons, is having his film sponsored by Tekton? Even if they are only providing speakers, it seems to be conflict of interest.

NDA, cap upgrade, now this.

I agree. Conflict of interest.

Nobody in their right mind would get rid of their B&W 800D for some Tekton - unless it was due to financial issues. Number one clue.

I would believe it if they gave them up for Salon2, Orion, KEF 207/2, Salk Soundscape, GedLee, or something along the line (although I would not give my 802D2 up for anything - as long as I have my dual Funk TSAD18).

But, please, Tekton speakers replacing the B&W 800D2? Give me a break. Conflict of interest 100%.

 

[GranteedEV]

But, please, Tekton speakers replacing the B&W 800D2? Give me a break. Conflict of interest 100%.

The Tekton are more efficient.



Seriously though it does have a good tweeter(s). Polars are probably a mess but that's the same for the B&W.
Overall I would not want either speaker, but I can see that scenario playing out as it did. There's definitely something unique about high efficiency speakers to some people.

 

[whasaaaab]

The Tekton are more efficient.



Seriously though it does have a good tweeter(s). Polars are probably a mess but that's the same for the B&W.
Overall I would not want either speaker, but I can see that scenario playing out as it did. There's definitely something unique about high efficiency speakers to some people.

LOL

maybe we will get more info soon

 

[GranteedEV]

LOL

maybe we will get more info soon

What more info do you need?
There's better options out there, that much is clear. Now you just need to figure out what other options appeal to you.

 

[ratso]

this thread has somehow morphed into one of the more amusing things around here in a while

 

[TLS Guy]

Since this thread has created quite a bit of interest, I have spent more time than I should refining the crossover.

The crossover of the woofers has been lowered to 900 Hz and the crossover for the tweeters is now 2200Hz. A zobel network has been added to the tweeters. This gives a composite fourth order crossover at 2.5 kHz. The drivers are in phase at crossover.

The response is quite smooth and the energy in the break up mode will be slightly reduced. Power response will be significantly increased. I suspect the overall acoustic balance would be more pleasing than my first try, which I did in the "rough" to see if there was any point in this design complex, once the tweeters had been correctly identified.

I have also done an optimal box model, since the sensitivity of the drivers has been reduced the F3 point will actually be around 60 Hz.

As you will see in the cone displacement graph, these woofers are severely xmax limited.

I believe this design will sound at least as good as the Tektons and likely better.

The big bonus of the speaker is high sensitivity and above all it will be a very kind easy drive for a receiver.

If your principal interest is music in the popular domain, especially rock and sock"em and HT, these speakers are likely worth a build for the DIYer who wants a bit of fun on a low budget.

Just make sure you brace the cabinets well and add the brace volume, vet volumes and driver displacement volumes to the final volume. Cover half the interior surface with Ployfill especially in the vicinity of the woofers.

You would not be out much cash just your time mainly.

Anybody who wants can have some fun with this and there are no BS disclosure statements!

I have to say I thought the AVS thread was silly with next to no enlightenment.

 

[whasaaaab]

Since this thread has created quite a bit of interest, I have spent more time than I should refining the crossover.

The crossover of the woofers has been lowered to 900 Hz and the crossover for the tweeters is now 2200Hz. A zobel network has been added to the tweeters. This gives a composite fourth order crossover at 2.5 kHz. The drivers are in phase at crossover.

The response is quite smooth and the energy in the break up mode will be slightly reduced. Power response will be significantly increased. I suspect the overall acoustic balance would be more pleasing than my first try, which I did in the "rough" to see if there was any point in this design complex, once the tweeters had been correctly identified.

I have also done an optimal box model, since the sensitivity of the drivers has been reduced the F3 point will actually be around 60 Hz.

As you will see in the cone displacement graph, these woofers are severely xmax limited.

I believe this design will sound at least as good as the Tektons and likely better.

The big bonus of the speaker is high sensitivity and above all it will be a very kind easy drive for a receiver.

If your principal interest is music in the popular domain, especially rock and sock"em and HT, these speakers are likely worth a build for the DIYer who wants a bit of fun on a low budget.

Just make sure you brace the cabinets well and add the brace volume, vet volumes and driver displacement volumes to the final volume. Cover half the interior surface with Ployfill especially in the vicinity of the woofers.

You would not be out much cash just your time mainly.

Anybody who wants can have some fun with this and there are no BS disclosure statements!

I have to say I thought the AVS thread was silly with next to no enlightenment.

That is why I have been living in this thread LOL much more information provided and good debates.

I do have a list of speakers but i will create a different thread once i am ready they do cost more but with the discount there in my budget ( mostly) 14 speakers from these makers Revel, Kef, MOrdant short, paradigm, Monitor audio, aeiral acoustics, Canton reference, Jamo and Klipsch

Once I am ready i will sent this list to my hook up and he will respond with prices and then i will ask here in a new thread. Unless I end up with the pendragons

 

[whasaaaab]

does everyone agree with his pink?

The 25 Ultimate Audiophile Speakers of All Time - Audiophile Review

 

[jcl]

does everyone agree with his pink?

The 25 Ultimate Audiophile Speakers of All Time - Audiophile Review

There was an earlier discussion when the list came out -
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/77091-top-25-audiophile-speakers-all-time.html

 

[whasaaaab]

This is from the guy who did the upgrade on the pendragons as well who submitted the MCAP upgrade pics

Eric Alexander from Tekton indicated you were interested in hearing about the sonic changes to the Pendragon speakers with the Mundorf Capacitor xover changes. I recently installed the upgraded xovers in my Pendragons, so I would like to give you my impressions.

First of all, as I am sure you are already aware of, the Pendragons are a fantastic speaker. For the money, I do not think anything comes close for a true full-range speaker. I was very happy with the stock Pendragons, but have made cap changes in other speakers in the past that produced very good results, so I decided to give it a try with the Pendragons. I installed the new Mundorf xover in just one speaker as I wanted to be able to do a direct comparison between the upgraded and stock versions. Right away, without any burn-in time at all, the changes were pretty dramatic. Its very cliche sounding, but it really is as if someone removed a veil from in front of the speakers. I had my son, who is a drummer, do the first comparison. I told him to listen to each speaker and tell me if he heard any differences. He immediately said the one with the upgraded xover sounded so much cleaner, and had much more air around the instruments. Cymbals now sounded 'right' to him (he said the stock speaker sounded dull and somewhat lifeless in comparison). I have to agree with his assessment. The deal maker for me is the changes the upgrade made to vocals and guitars. The upgraded speaker is just much more dynamic and fast -- you can really 'feel' the pluck of an acoustic guitar. Vocals now have a weight to them that is missing with the stock version. It also seems like the upgraded speaker is louder (the stereo image moved from the center to a foot or two in the direction of the upgraded speaker), though I would not expect the sensitivity to change. Even my wife, who can't seem to understand why there are always so many boxes coming and leaving our house due to my 'audio hobby,' was impressed with the changes. She said it was much easier to understand words in the song on the upgraded speaker.

After installing the second upgraded xover, I would say the changes are even more beneficial. Soundstage width is about the same, but depth increased quite a bit. Listening to Rick Braun's Cadillac Slim from his Sessions CD really emphasized the differences the new xovers made. The trumpet was much more dynamic and clear, the rim shots from the drum were so lifelike, and each musician was much more defined within the soundstage. Listening to the acoustic song "I'm Trying" by Martina McBride is breath taking. Her vocals are clear, powerful, and full of emotion -- it really seems like she is in the room. The acoustic guitar is awesome as well -- the plucked strings are powerful and fast, no overhang. I could go on and on, but I think you can tell I love the Pendragons, and the upgraded xovers takes a very, very good speaker and makes it a giant killer.

One other thing -- Eric basically builds the xover for free. If you add up the price of all the parts used (those Mundorf caps are huge and expensive!), it comes to just about $725. I would certainly suggest that if you plan on keeping the speakers for any length of time, go for the upgrade -- I'm definitely glad I did. One thing to keep in mind if you are doing the upgrade yourself, when you cut out the old xover, keep the internal wiring as long as possible. The new xover is huge in comparison to the old one, and I ended up having to run a new wire from the upper bass driver to the new xover as the cable was now about an inch too short. The install is really pretty simple though, and Eric walked me through the connections as the new xover was set up a little differently.

 

[TLS Guy]

This is from the guy who did the upgrade on the pendragons as well who submitted the MCAP upgrade pics

Eric Alexander from Tekton indicated you were interested in hearing about the sonic changes to the Pendragon speakers with the Mundorf Capacitor xover changes. I recently installed the upgraded xovers in my Pendragons, so I would like to give you my impressions.

First of all, as I am sure you are already aware of, the Pendragons are a fantastic speaker. For the money, I do not think anything comes close for a true full-range speaker. I was very happy with the stock Pendragons, but have made cap changes in other speakers in the past that produced very good results, so I decided to give it a try with the Pendragons. I installed the new Mundorf xover in just one speaker as I wanted to be able to do a direct comparison between the upgraded and stock versions. Right away, without any burn-in time at all, the changes were pretty dramatic. Its very cliche sounding, but it really is as if someone removed a veil from in front of the speakers. I had my son, who is a drummer, do the first comparison. I told him to listen to each speaker and tell me if he heard any differences. He immediately said the one with the upgraded xover sounded so much cleaner, and had much more air around the instruments. Cymbals now sounded 'right' to him (he said the stock speaker sounded dull and somewhat lifeless in comparison). I have to agree with his assessment. The deal maker for me is the changes the upgrade made to vocals and guitars. The upgraded speaker is just much more dynamic and fast -- you can really 'feel' the pluck of an acoustic guitar. Vocals now have a weight to them that is missing with the stock version. It also seems like the upgraded speaker is louder (the stereo image moved from the center to a foot or two in the direction of the upgraded speaker), though I would not expect the sensitivity to change. Even my wife, who can't seem to understand why there are always so many boxes coming and leaving our house due to my 'audio hobby,' was impressed with the changes. She said it was much easier to understand words in the song on the upgraded speaker.

After installing the second upgraded xover, I would say the changes are even more beneficial. Soundstage width is about the same, but depth increased quite a bit. Listening to Rick Braun's Cadillac Slim from his Sessions CD really emphasized the differences the new xovers made. The trumpet was much more dynamic and clear, the rim shots from the drum were so lifelike, and each musician was much more defined within the soundstage. Listening to the acoustic song "I'm Trying" by Martina McBride is breath taking. Her vocals are clear, powerful, and full of emotion -- it really seems like she is in the room. The acoustic guitar is awesome as well -- the plucked strings are powerful and fast, no overhang. I could go on and on, but I think you can tell I love the Pendragons, and the upgraded xovers takes a very, very good speaker and makes it a giant killer.

One other thing -- Eric basically builds the xover for free. If you add up the price of all the parts used (those Mundorf caps are huge and expensive!), it comes to just about $725. I would certainly suggest that if you plan on keeping the speakers for any length of time, go for the upgrade -- I'm definitely glad I did. One thing to keep in mind if you are doing the upgrade yourself, when you cut out the old xover, keep the internal wiring as long as possible. The new xover is huge in comparison to the old one, and I ended up having to run a new wire from the upper bass driver to the new xover as the cable was now about an inch too short. The install is really pretty simple though, and Eric walked me through the connections as the new xover was set up a little differently.

That guy is probably in dire need of anti Psychotic medication.

 

[gtpsuper24]

That guy is probably in dire need of anti Psychotic medication.

No I don't think so. He's happy with his purchase and thats all the matters in the end right?

I always find it strange that we nick pick on speakers if they use cheap crossovers and we come to the conclusion that the designer is just a penny pitcher and doesn't care about the end product over profits. Now as soon as a company makes a high end expensive crossover upgrade available we complain about that and start the snake oil chants

 

[Swerd]

No I don't think so. He's happy with his purchase and thats all the matters in the end right?

I always find it strange that we nick pick on speakers if they use cheap crossovers and we come to the conclusion that the designer is just a penny pitcher and doesn't care about the end product over profits. Now as soon as a company makes a high end expensive crossover upgrade available we complain about that and start the snake oil chants

It usually isn't the speaker designer who cuts corners on crossovers, it's the sales and marketing people who compromise designs to keep a product within a price range.

There's a big difference between selling a speaker with a well-designed crossover, and offering to sell optional crossover parts at a price 30% above the cost of the speakers. That isn't high end.

No crossover can benefit, or even change, a speaker's performance by exchanging the parts of the crossover without changing the actual design. That includes overpriced capacitors made with silver. No amount of testimony over the internet from enthusiastic owners can change that simple fact.

 

[GranteedEV]

No I don't think so. He's happy with his purchase and thats all the matters in the end right?

I always find it strange that we nick pick on speakers if they use cheap crossovers and we come to the conclusion that the designer is just a penny pitcher and doesn't care about the end product over profits. Now as soon as a company makes a high end expensive crossover upgrade available we complain about that and start the snake oil chants

Let me put it like this:

You can have a really, really good crossover with Cheap Electrolytic Capacitors, Laminate Inductors, and a low powered resistor. But it's a never a bad idea to use slightly better parts. An Air Core inductor will have better measured performance at the highest SPLs. A Poly Cap will last longer. A good resistor won't fail.

The quality of the crossover itself is determined by its interaction with the speaker. We expect a good crossover - one that achieves good inter-driver phase alignment / tracking, flat frequency response, smooth power response, suppression of unideal driver behavior, and control over power handling, all meshed together to sound as natural as possible.

There's a lot of "crossovers" out there that are basically a "cap and coil". A very basic 2 or 3 part deal that does nothing to solve the above issues. Such crossovers exist only the do a bare mininum of driver integration and if the designers could take them out of the speaker they would. The main reason they are even used is to limit driver damage. These are not crossovers - they're really just electrical protection filters. That is a pathetic excuse for a crossover because the crossover is the heart and soul of the speaker. It's akin to replacing your brain with a 133Mhz Pentium Processor. "um... what".

Not all crossovers need 20+ parts to be good, but they need to be well-optimized that normally requires a smart circuit. The crossover is simply expected to do a lot more than just protect drivers from overloading.

After that they should use quality parts to ensure longitivity. Sometimes companies will swap out parts to raise margins etc. In cheap speakers this is totally understandable. Once you get over that ~$1000 price range though it's pretty expected for quality parts to be used.

But quality parts are not the same as the ridiculous parts being sold by some of these companies for ridiculous prices. These have no ostensible benefits and play on the idea that people will imagine audible differences, which they do because of confirmation bias. If that's not snake oil then what is?

 

[whasaaaab]

I had a talk with eric, the seas pendragon is for audiofiles its more refined and not as much punch or slam like the pendragons. So for more detail for music then it would be the seas pendragons.

For the best of both worlds then the pendragon, it is a newer design then what he had previously this year so January-ish

The both speakers are designed to accept the upgrade so its in his design to have the upgrade done, its just for more detail and smothness for music etc... I know what some will say to tht BS, snake oil i know

Drivers are from Eminence Unlike Zu, these drivers are only driven in their comfort zones, so, no cone break up issues that the Zu drivers are occasionally criticized for. this is why the triple tweeter array again iam not technical. As for the sensitivity it is up to 98db accordingto eric he would not state something that was false. there is a secret to his design he stated and said its not hard to make a good speaker as everyone thinks.

He has started reading the forums I said he should read all of them and answer some questions that everyone wants to know so we might just see him soon. He wants to make affordable outstanding speakers that compare to the ones costing triple times more.

He compared the drsgons with the likes of focal and revel for anything costing under 10000 will not compete with the sound and performance you will get...

Take this for what its worth some of you will probably disect what i wrote and some will wait for themselves to see. One person did make a good point he said would i like them 6 months from now and what happens if it was just the shock and awe in the beginning but later you realize they fall short of my expectations like speakers do for many people.

when i am ready i did work somehing out with him he understood what i was saying. Maybe someoen with a lot of money who is reading this thread can buy a pair of upgraded pendragons lets us know exactly how its made on the inside cross overs, drivers we know its custom driver and custom tweeters that are specific to the dragons i was told.

I hope swerd and tls guy can maybe order a PD and let us know if its all true about the sound and performace LOL you get 30 days free i say that because you guys are well educated maybe even acutechguy

 

[TLS Guy]

I had a talk with eric, the seas pendragon is for audiofiles its more refined and not as much punch or slam like the pendragons. So for more detail for music then it would be the seas pendragons.

For the best of both worlds then the pendragon, it is a newer design then what he had previously this year so January-ish

The both speakers are designed to accept the upgrade so its in his design to have the upgrade done, its just for more detail and smothness for music etc... I know what some will say to tht BS, snake oil i know

Drivers are from Eminence Unlike Zu, these drivers are only driven in their comfort zones, so, no cone break up issues that the Zu drivers are occasionally criticized for. this is why the triple tweeter array again iam not technical. As for the sensitivity it is up to 98db accordingto eric he would not state something that was false. there is a secret to his design he stated and said its not hard to make a good speaker as everyone thinks.



He has started reading the forums I said he should read all of them and answer some questions that everyone wants to know so we might just see him soon. He wants to make affordable outstanding speakers that compare to the ones costing triple times more.

He compared the drsgons with the likes of focal and revel for anything costing under 10000 will not compete with the sound and performance you will get...

Take this for what its worth some of you will probably disect what i wrote and some will wait for themselves to see. One person did make a good point he said would i like them 6 months from now and what happens if it was just the shock and awe in the beginning but later you realize they fall short of my expectations like speakers do for many people.

when i am ready i did work somehing out with him he understood what i was saying. Maybe someoen with a lot of money who is reading this thread can buy a pair of upgraded pendragons lets us know exactly how its made on the inside cross overs, drivers we know its custom driver and custom tweeters that are specific to the dragons i was told.

I hope swerd and tls guy can maybe order a PD and let us know if its all true about the sound and performace LOL you get 30 days free i say that because you guys are well educated maybe even acutechguy

In your dreams!

Of course the speaker is driven into break up mode. However with skill you can minimize the damage of the break up mode, as I showed in my crossover model.

It can not be a 98 db sensitivity speaker without using the peak of the break up mode.

If he uses the peak of the break up mode to get 98 db sensitivity, it is a lousy speaker, a really lousy one.

You can see what I'm saying has to be correct if you look at the published specs of the driver's acoustic response.

Also any crossover is going to reduce the sensitivity of the raw specs of any driver, it has to, that is simple math.

The only way he could get to 98 sensitivity is to use two 8 ohm drivers in parallel and then it would be a 4 ohm speaker and not an 8 ohm one.

His updated crossover is pure unadulterated snake oil. All a crossover needs is good air core inductors, reasonably priced close tolerance poly caps, and close tolerance resistors. These don't come anywhere near Eric's asking prices. So he is confirmed among other attributes as a purveyor of snake oil.