Rookie here...

[GrimSurfer]

Is there a link to Gene's AVR reviews?

Start here...

https://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews

If Gene measures it, you can take his observations to the bank. If he doesn't measure it, there might be a reason he doesn't. Perhaps that reason is that he's being diplomatic and gentlemanly.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Here’s some more for your bean!
https://www.audioholics.com/product-reviews

 

[lovinthehd]

The Yamaha has a little more power for 2Ch and 5CH, but insignificant difference.

The Yamaha probably has better reliability and HDMI compatibility.

Sez the new Yamaha fan boi

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sez the new Yamaha fan boi

Why you........

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Seriously only time will tell.

M Code has been saying that Yamaha is ranked #1 in reliability for years.

I never wanted to accept that.

I was a Denon/Marantz fanboy for a long time. But after several bad experiences over the last 10 years (AVP-A1HDCI was the last straw), I had no choice but to change.

Yamaha better do me right.

So, yeah, now I am a Yamaha fanboy.

 

[GrimSurfer]

I'm a fanboy of what specs well, measures well, and auditions well. Today, that might be certain things. Tomorrow it might be other things.

 

[lovinthehd]

Seriously only time will tell.

M Code has been saying that Yamaha is ranked #1 in reliability for years.

I never wanted to accept that.

I was a Denon/Marantz fanboy for a long time. But after several bad experiences over the last 10 years (AVP-A1HDCI was the last straw), I had no choice but to change.

Yamaha better do me right.

So, yeah, now I am a Yamaha fanboy.

Just teasing you. I doubt it makes a significant difference and the last year or so I've seen quite a few complaints about Yamaha too. Just the state of consumer electronics...

 

[Good4it]

Saying #1can be very misleading without saying what the actual rate is. It can hide the fact that it is the best of the worst. Actual numbers would say a lot more but I bet REAL failure vs total units would hard to come by. Manufacturers keep that number quiet.

 

[GrimSurfer]

How much faith should one place on manufacturer reliability claims when the average AVR gets swapped out every few years because the supporting tech changes so often? (USB 1, 2, wifi, bt, dsd, 1080, 4K, 8k, 5.x, 7.x, 9.x 11.x)

 

[Zedturbo]

How much faith should one place on manufacturer reliability claims when the average AVR gets swapped out every few years because the supporting tech changes so often? (USB 1, 2, wifi, bt, dsd, 1080, 4K, 8k, 5.x, 7.x, 9.x 11.x)

And that's why I was wondering on if I should get separates and maybe just upgrade the processor if necessary when the time comes.

 

[GrimSurfer]

And that's why I was wondering on if I should get separates and maybe just upgrade the processor if necessary when the time comes.

The initial cost of doing so is higher... but it saves money over the long term. A good amp (or amps) can easily last 20 years or more and the interfaces haven't changed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And that's why I was wondering on if I should get separates and maybe just upgrade the processor if necessary when the time comes.

Processors will be outdated just as fast as AVRs.

Processors may fail just as fast as AVRs. This is the key.

My $7500 Denon AVP processor died after 8 years.

Another AH member’s $7500 Denon AVP also died.

Just because a processor costs $7500 does not guarantee that it will last longer than an AVR. This is key.

Other processors from Marantz, NAD, Anthem, Rotel, etc., have met their untimely deaths.

The cost of upgrading the processor alone will be higher than replacing the entire AVR.

So you may not be saving money by going separates.

But you might get more satisfaction by going separates, which nobody can argue with.

For example, the Yamaha RX-A3080 AVR may last just as long as the Yamaha CX-A5200 processor + MX-A5200 amp combo. Replacing the CX-A5200 processor ($2500) will cost a lot more than replacing the RX-A3080 AVR ($1600) - that’s almost $1,000 MSRP more.

But owning the CX-A5200 + MX-A5200 might give you more satisfaction.

So it’s probably not about saving money in the long run.

I think most people who are into separates will probably tell you they didn’t do it to SAVE money. They are either doing it for the sound or just satisfaction.

 

[Zedturbo]

Now, if I'm looking for separates....am I looking for class A/B or class D?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Processors will be outdated just as fast as AVRs.

Processors may fail just as fast as AVRs. This is the key.

My $7500 Denon AVP processor died after 8 years.

Another AH member’s $7500 Denon AVP also died.

Just because a processor costs $7500 does not guarantee that it will last longer than an AVR. This is key.

Other processors from Marantz, NAD, Anthem, Rotel, etc., have met their untimely deaths.

The cost of upgrading the processor alone will be higher than replacing the entire AVR.

So you may not be saving money by going separates.

But you might get more satisfaction by going separates, which nobody can argue with.

For example, the Yamaha RX-A3080 AVR may last just as long as the Yamaha CX-A5200 processor + MX-A5200 amp combo. Replacing the CX-A5200 processor ($2500) will cost a lot more than replacing the RX-A3080 AVR ($1600) - that’s almost $1,000 MSRP more.

But owning the CX-A5200 + MX-A5200 might give you more satisfaction.

So it’s probably not about saving money in the long run.

I think most people who are into separates will probably tell you they didn’t do it to SAVE money. They are either doing it for the sound or just satisfaction.

Lol!!!!!

 

[GrimSurfer]

Now, if I'm looking for separates....am I looking for class A/B or class D?

Compare ALL of the relevant specs and test data... output, gain, distortion, linearity, frequency response, noise.

Let your comparison lead you to the best solution.

Lol!!!!!

LOL. I liked that, William.

Not saying anyone is lying here, but it's important for people to do their own thinking and make their own decisions...

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth

 

[Zedturbo]

Not saying anyone is lying here, but it's important for people to do their own thinking and make their own decisions...

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth

Thank you! I'm doing the best I can reading everything as much as possible but some stuff sounds like a foreign language lol

 

[GrimSurfer]

Thank you! I'm doing the best I can reading everything as much as possible but some stuff sounds like a foreign language lol

It is a foreign language, so it will take time. Perhaps months before sinking in. You have a lot of years of listening pleasure ahead of you. Take your time... it will come.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Now, if I'm looking for separates....am I looking for class A/B or class D?

Amps started class-A.

Then they evolved to class-A/B. Many audiophiles still believe class-A/B is the best overall.

But I think the next evolution is class-D. ATI and other companies now offer class-D with specs as good as class A/B.

I have also used class-D amps from Crown (XLS) and now Yamaha (PX3),and they sound as good as any audiophile high-end amps I've heard. Their specs isn't as pretty (SNR is 100dB instead of 120dB),but many people cannot hear the difference.

If you have the budget, high-end amps from ATI or similar are highly regarded and offer King Kong pride of ownership.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Amps started class-A.

Then they evolved to class-A/B. Many audiophiles still believe class-A/B is the best overall.

But I think the next evolution is class-D. ATI and other companies now offer class-D with specs as good as class A/B.

I have also used class-D amps from Crown (XLS) and now Yamaha (PX3),and they sound as good as any audiophile high-end amps I've heard. Their specs isn't as pretty (SNR is 100dB instead of 120dB),but many people cannot hear the difference.

If you have the budget, high-end amps from ATI or similar are highly regarded and offer pride of ownership.

Not trying to be difficult here, but Yamaha's distortion spec for the PX3 is 0.1% at a single frequency (1kHz) at full output, and three times as much at 0.3%) half output.

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/proaudio/power_amps/px_series/specs.html#product-tabs

Using the calculator below, that equates to -60 dB at full output. At half output, it equates to -50 dB. Both of these figures are well within the audible range.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

A good home amplifier will measure well below this level, regardless of whether they are "high end", "audiophile" or anything like that.

As for signal to noise ratio, the 100 dB figure is taken at the output terminals. It doesn't include fan noise. The PX3 has two fans with 16 speed settings.

For @Zedturbo : It's really important to be able to interpret specs and test methodology and apply these to intended use. The gear @AcuDefTechGuy has might work for him if he has a large space (where mechanical noise isn't a big issue at a far away listening position) or is playing at really high levels (which could mask distortion), but may not work as well in your setting. It's all in the numbers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thank you! I'm doing the best I can reading everything as much as possible but some stuff sounds like a foreign language lol

Your doin fine. Not sure how long you’ve been doing this but some of us are decades in. Lol. Take your time, enjoy the ride. Doing fine...