recommend a used 5ch amp?

[sjcguy]

Hi,
quick summary: I did a quick comparison between my Carver TFM-45 vs HK PA5800 which I thought it was ok(not great) until now. I have the carver for 2ch and I enjoy it very much. I kept blaming the Sony 5ES or speakers but now it's the AMP. Music sounds so clear and live with Carver and I don't feel annoying when playing loud.
is it the power issue or the characteristic of the amp or both?
I know many will recommend Emotiva but do I have any other option such as used one: parasound, ati, adcom?
My budget is around $600-$700
thanks,
tran

 

[DD66000]

Look for a Parasound HCA 2205A, or 2205AT. They were $2k new. Should find one for less that $800.

 

[sjcguy]

you read my mind. I am trying hard for a parasound.
I missed the sale of HCA2105 from local craigslist (yes it's HCA2105)
There is one private offer of HCA2205 for $900, a little bit stiff but I can push hard to $800.
How about Adcom 7700 for $700?

 

[Pyrrho]

With the prices you are considering, I would go with a new amplifier with warranty:

http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm

For a used amplifier to be a good deal, it must be much less than that, or significantly more powerful.

 

[DD66000]

With the prices you are considering, I would go with a new amplifier with warranty:

http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm

For a used amplifier to be a good deal, it must be much less than that, or significantly more powerful.

One problem with Emo, you have to like the looks of the ugly things with their cheap looking pieces of metal covering the edges. I've got a used Citation amp for almost 5 years and it just keeps putting out beautiful music. And i can run it as a stereo or mono amp.

 

[Pyrrho]

One problem with Emo, you have to like the looks of the ugly things with their cheap looking pieces of metal covering the edges. I've got a used Citation amp for almost 5 years and it just keeps putting out beautiful music. And i can run it as a stereo or mono amp.

With a power amp, you don't have to like the looks of it at all. One can put it behind other things, as it is not as if it needs to be reached by the signal from a remote control. In fact, you can even stick it in another room if you want, though the wires might get overlong in some installations that way.

However, I am not saying that one ought not buy a used power amp. I am just saying that it is not a good idea to pay as much for a used one as it costs for a new one of good quality.

In my case, I own 4 different power amps, though I am currently only using three of them. I bought them all used, at greatly reduced prices. If people had wanted the kinds of prices we are looking at in this thread, I would have purchased new amplifiers instead.

 

[DD66000]

I would not pay anywhere near what an amp went for new, buying it used. Half would be the max, if it was truly a high quality amp.

On the other hand, I sold a Crown K2 amp for more than I paid for it, used, which was still way below list for it new.

 

[Pyrrho]

I would not pay anywhere near what an amp went for new, buying it used. Half would be the max, if it was truly a high quality amp.

On the other hand, I sold a Crown K2 amp for more than I paid for it, used, which was still way below list for it new.

I agree, though I would say that I would not pay more than half for it if the original price were not inflated, and it is in excellent condition. But many things are overpriced to begin with, and those I would not be willing to pay half priced for them used.

If my memory is right, the Crown K2 retailed for near $2k, and it is an impressive amplifier in many respects. I would not be quick to sell one of those, as they can be used to drive almost anything. Lately, they have been going fairly cheap on eBay, at just over $500 in working condition. That seems like a nice price for such a good amplifier, if there is nothing wrong with it.

Here is a case of someone wanting too much for an Emotiva power amp:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emotiva-XPA-3-xpa-3-power-amp-/140609319252?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bcf7f154#ht_524wt_935

Actually new is only $49 more than their asking price. I think anyone who would buy at their price has something wrong with them.

 

[Pyrrho]

Hi,
quick summary: I did a quick comparison between my Carver TFM-45 vs HK PA5800 which I thought it was ok(not great) until now. I have the carver for 2ch and I enjoy it very much. I kept blaming the Sony 5ES or speakers but now it's the AMP. Music sounds so clear and live with Carver and I don't feel annoying when playing loud.
is it the power issue or the characteristic of the amp or both?
I know many will recommend Emotiva but do I have any other option such as used one: parasound, ati, adcom?
My budget is around $600-$700
thanks,
tran

If you are noticing a difference in sound quality with the Carver and HK, if it is only at very high volume, then it is easily understood by the specifications, as that Carver puts out vastly more power per channel than the HK (375 watts RMS @ 8 ohms versus 80 watts RMS @ 8 ohms). If the problem is at all volumes, either your speakers are too difficult for the HK (what speakers are you using?), or there is likely something wrong with it.

You might be able to pick up some more 2 channel Carver power amps for not too much money, if you have the space for them. In fact, you might be able to get away with just one more channel of amplification, and use the HK just for surround channels, which typically are driven much less hard than the front.

Also, the Carver power amp is supposedly designed to emulate the performance of some tube amplifier Bob Carver made, though what, precisely, that involves is not well explained in the manual. I am sure that Carver would like you to believe that there is something unique about their amplifiers that make them better than other amplifiers, but I suggest resisting such ideas.

 

[DD66000]

I agree, though I would say that I would not pay more than half for it if the original price were not inflated, and it is in excellent condition. But many things are overpriced to begin with, and those I would not be willing to pay half priced for them used.

If my memory is right, the Crown K2 retailed for near $2k, and it is an impressive amplifier in many respects. I would not be quick to sell one of those, as they can be used to drive almost anything. Lately, they have been going fairly cheap on eBay, at just over $500 in working condition. That seems like a nice price for such a good amplifier, if there is nothing wrong with it.

I was using the K2 to drive a pair of passive subs. and it was very good pushing 800w to each. But after two years I decided to replace the K2 with a pair of BASH 500w Digital plate amps.
As it turned out, the BASH Digital amps are even better than the K2. I got something like 4~5db more output with the BASH amps. And what I sold the K2 for more than paid for the 2 plate amps.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

One problem with Emo, you have to like the looks of the ugly things with their cheap looking pieces of metal covering the edges. I've got a used Citation amp for almost 5 years and it just keeps putting out beautiful music. And i can run it as a stereo or mono amp.

I honestly don't think they are ugly at all, and I have never decided on an amp by it's looks only by it's performance vs price. Looks should be the last thing one would consider when picking out an amp new or used.

 

[walter duque]

I own the big brother (3k6) to this http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1320355370&/Cinepro-2k5-5-Channel-Power-Am one. Bought it about 14 years ago and ubused it since day one, a true workhorse.

 

[sjcguy]

If you are noticing a difference in sound quality with the Carver and HK, if it is only at very high volume, then it is easily understood by the specifications, as that Carver puts out vastly more power per channel than the HK (375 watts RMS @ 8 ohms versus 80 watts RMS @ 8 ohms). If the problem is at all volumes, either your speakers are too difficult for the HK (what speakers are you using?), or there is likely something wrong with it.

You might be able to pick up some more 2 channel Carver power amps for not too much money, if you have the space for them. In fact, you might be able to get away with just one more channel of amplification, and use the HK just for surround channels, which typically are driven much less hard than the front.

Also, the Carver power amp is supposedly designed to emulate the performance of some tube amplifier Bob Carver made, though what, precisely, that involves is not well explained in the manual. I am sure that Carver would like you to believe that there is something unique about their amplifiers that make them better than other amplifiers, but I suggest resisting such ideas.

I don't have space so I really need multi channel amp. I thought my HK was fine but until I hooked up my Carver. I don't know how to describe it but the singer voice, guitar sound so different that I felt I wanted to sit there whole day. I hear the vocal and guitar in background clearly and smooth not like high pitch metal sound. I may try to compare at lower volume with HK again. With HK it's ok but I feel the soundstage so narrow, some time feel the singer s have just like short breath.
Regarding the Emotiva, at one time I almost bought the XPA3 but it's just too big for my space and I was not ready to get a new dedicated stand yet.
I know many are happy with Emotiva but does it produce good sounding, especially for music? the spec and price make the Emo looks like the best bang for the buck but is it really?.
I am looking for something better than my HK 80W/ch and it's not just simple as getting a more powerful amp isn't it?
thanks all.
tran

PS: my speakers are RT16, my friend brought his Kef Iq5 and jbl ES80b to compare and the RT16 just much better. I really wanted the Lsi15 but not anymore

 

[Pyrrho]

I don't have space so I really need multi channel amp. I thought my HK was fine but until I hooked up my Carver. I don't know how to describe it but the singer voice, guitar sound so different that I felt I wanted to sit there whole day. I hear the vocal and guitar in background clearly and smooth not like high pitch metal sound. I may try to compare at lower volume with HK again. With HK it's ok but I feel the soundstage so narrow, some time feel the singer s have just like short breath.
Regarding the Emotiva, at one time I almost bought the XPA3 but it's just too big for my space and I was not ready to get a new dedicated stand yet.
I know many are happy with Emotiva but does it produce good sounding, especially for music? the spec and price make the Emo looks like the best bang for the buck but is it really?.
I am looking for something better than my HK 80W/ch and it's not just simple as getting a more powerful amp isn't it?
thanks all.
tran

PS: my speakers are RT16, my friend brought his Kef Iq5 and jbl ES80b to compare and the RT16 just much better. I really wanted the Lsi15 but not anymore

Judging from the published specifications of your speakers, I would not guess that they are a difficult load. However, sometimes published specifications leave a lot to be desired, and certainly, they do indicate that the added power would matter at high volumes, as they are capable of handling much more than 80 watts.

It might simply be a matter of more power, or it could be that there is something wrong with your HK. When using your Carver, pay attention to how high the power meters indicate when playing the music as loud as you want it, and use that as a guide to how much power you require.

 

[sjcguy]

I bought my HK brand new. Just doesn't sound as good as the Carver
I don't think the needles ever went above 15W level.

 

[DD66000]

I bought my HK brand new. Just doesn't sound as good as the Carver
I don't think the needles ever went above 15W level.

Carver makes very good amps, and HK does as well. I have two HKs, but no knowledge of the PA5800.
I think the difference between the two units you have, the Carver is just better, to say nothing of it having much greater power/head room.

One tell tale sign of the 5800 is its 8u/4u power ratings. 80w>8u, but only 110w>4u. That is less than a 50% increase of power >4u.

A truly great amp with a lot of reserve, will double power as the load is cut to half. Now the Carver does not double either, but the difference is a much greater 125w, 8u~4u.

The Citation amp I use for my main L/R doubles power between 8u~4u. And in mono mode quadruples the power. I'd be hard pressed to find a better amp.

 

[Alex2507]

a true workhorse.

workhorse/toaster oven

 

[Cruise Missile]

I know looks are subjective, I liked the silver trim. The wife however, did not. So we swapped them out.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I know looks are subjective, I liked the silver trim. The wife however, did not. So we swapped them out.

I agree with your wife; I think the black trim looks better.

 

[sjcguy]

With the prices you are considering, I would go with a new amplifier with warranty:

http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm

For a used amplifier to be a good deal, it must be much less than that, or significantly more powerful.

The funny thing is that those who offered me 5ch amp are currently own Emo XPA-5.