Receiver upgrade help

[Ty Wayne]

Call me crazy or whatever, but all this thought I've been putting into upgrading my system has me really wanting some Sierra Towers! I mean, seriously, I haven't even had my Ascend 340's a whole year yet! But look at it this way. If I went and bought a 5 or 6 hundred dollar AVR, and also a 8 or 9 hundred dollar amp, well then I've spent somewhere around $1500 bucks! I could get a pair of Sierra's for $2000 (plus tax and plus a $100 dollars shipping). But the point is, for the price of a new AVR and new amp, I'm close to the cost of some Sierra's!

Of course, I'd still have an old Pioneer AVR, and that wouldn't do much for the Sierra's I don't think. And then what would I do with my 340's? Not sure I could get my money back out of them, and wouldn't be able to afford the Horizon for a matching center. I guess I'm living in la la land!?!?

 

[markw]

Dude, you got it bad. There outta be a warning on this web site that says "WARNING!!! This site can cause damage to your wallet."

Upgrade your receiver now. I'll give you room for growth which our current one lacks.

 

[PENG]

With the sub your 340 should sound great and the tower may not change all that much. Get the electronics now and then to sell the 340, until then just be happy. Seriously your have very decent speakers now and you are really not qualified to complain.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Dude, you got it bad. There outta be a warning on this web site that says "WARNING!!! This site can cause damage to your wallet."

Upgrade your receiver now. I'll give you room for growth which our current one lacks.

With the sub your 340 should sound great and the tower may not change all that much. Get the electronics now and then to sell the 340, until then just be happy. Seriously your have very decent speakers now and you are really not qualified to complain.

You're both right. Exactly right. I love my 340's. I really do! As Mark said, I've got it bad! And I do. On slow nights at work, I spend nearly ALL NIGHT reading articles, reading this forum, and looking at audio equipment. I don't always understand what I'm looking at concerning equipment, but I look anyway. I sit and study rear images of AVR's and try to understand how to hook things up in different ways. Last night I was trying to understand balanced versus unbalanced connections (still don't get it by the way, LOL).

Anyway, yeah, I got it bad. But I'm really not complaining, I've just got upgraditis! But the smart thing to do would be upgrade the AVR, prolly get an amp to toy with and occupy my fixation for now. Then, maybe in a year or so look at some Sierra Towers (or maybe something else). Second sub wouldn't hurt.

Thanks for talking me down. I need it!!

 

[tmurnin]

In response to your question, both Denon receivers are excellent products. The 4100 gives you Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 and SubEQ while the 3100 only gets you MultiXT. Basically, you're getting a higher level of room correction for the extra $$$. If you don't plan on using Audyssey, there's no sense in paying for the extra features, but if you do use it, personally I think the XT32 is worth the money, especially if you plan on getting a second sub. In fact, if you've got cash burning a hole in your pocket, I'd recommend the 4100 and a second Hsu sub before I'd spend money on an external amp. The additional sub will get you a noticeably smoother bass response and I doubt you'd ever notice the difference that comes from an external amp.

 

[Ty Wayne]

In response to your question, both Denon receivers are excellent products. The 4100 gives you Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 and SubEQ while the 3100 only gets you MultiXT. Basically, you're getting a higher level of room correction for the extra $$$. If you don't plan on using Audyssey, there's no sense in paying for the extra features, but if you do use it, personally I think the XT32 is worth the money, especially if you plan on getting a second sub. In fact, if you've got cash burning a hole in your pocket, I'd recommend the 4100 and a second Hsu sub before I'd spend money on an external amp. The additional sub will get you a noticeably smoother bass response and I doubt you'd ever notice the difference that comes from an external amp.

Thanks bud. I agree, from the reading I've done, XT32 is a good step up. I want it.

As for the amp, believe it or not, I've nearly talked myself out of it (for now!). I don't have money burning a hole in my pocket, but I do usually spend a little on myself around Christmas every year once other things are paid for (I have three daughters, LOL).

I've thought about a 2nd sub a little bit but not seriously. Perhaps I should think about it seriously! Its a good idea! One thing that's holding me back a little bit is my tv. Its a 7 or 8 year old Plasma (Panasonic) and I've just been worried about when it will bite the dust!?!? Its working fine, no problems. I'm just wondering what the average life span of it is and when I'll need to buy another tv. I don't want to drop a bunch of money on audio and then my tv die, know what I mean?

Having said all that, I might just do what youre proposing. I'll get some extra wattage from a new AVR, as well as much better processing, so an amp can surely wait. A 2nd Hsu would kick some butt!!

Thanks again for your input!

 

[JohnnieB]

Hey Ty. Glad to hear your getting along well with the Ascends. Upgraditis has got you by the boo boo. Nothing wrong with that, its fun. A couple thoughts as I read through the post.

First, the receiver is your logical first step, but you know this. FWIW, I really like Denon/Marantz.

Second, I run my Ascend towers with an Emo amp and they sound superb. Be patient on the amp tho. Emo runs sales every now and again, or is it every month, seems like a lot of em lately. They have refurb amps like the XPA2 2nd gen for about 15% off on occassion. They also just had a labor day sale on new amps, so keep an eye out for those.

Third, although I absolutely love my Sierra towers, my decision to buy them over say the Sierra 2's was purely an asthetic. I love the look of towers its my thing, please dont judge me. Im sure you have probably read somewhere on this forum, that one of the reasons to go with towers over bookshelves is the full range capability. Most towers really are not full range at least until you get into new car money. The Sierra 2's can be ordered with the custom RAAL tweet, which I can't recommend enough. Paired with that nice HSU sub you have, should sound pretty sweet. In addition, the money saved could go toward the Sierra center or a matching HSU. I am by no means trying to talk you out of the towers, just giving you food for thought.

 

[herbu]

I'd recommend the 4100 and a second Hsu sub before I'd spend money on an external amp.

Agree. Just be sure you don't expect double the performance with a second sub.

When you run XT32, it will set the volume of each sub independently, (w/ the X4100), just like it sets the volume of your Left/Right. But when playing music or movies, you don't get twice the volume. What you get is balance, if you position them properly. I mean, the bass will have the same thump and sound at every listening position, not just your seat.

Is it worth it? YOU BET!!! And if you ever get a hankerin' to show off a big Bing/Bang/Boom movie to friends, you can crank them both up rattle their spleens.

 

[tmurnin]

TV lifespan depends on how much you watch it, not how old it is. Some of the more recent plasmas were claiming a life of 100,000+ hours. Given that yours is already 7-8 years old, maybe estimate 50k hours to be safe. Not sure how many hours/day you leave the tv on, but that's a pretty big number. If you watch 8 hours/day every day of the year, that's almost 20 years of life. At a minimum, unless you have a historically unpredictable model, I would say you have at least 4-5 years left in your tv.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Hey Ty. Glad to hear your getting along well with the Ascends. Upgraditis has got you by the boo boo. Nothing wrong with that, its fun. A couple thoughts as I read through the post.

First, the receiver is your logical first step, but you know this. FWIW, I really like Denon/Marantz.

Second, I run my Ascend towers with an Emo amp and they sound superb. Be patient on the amp tho. Emo runs sales every now and again, or is it every month, seems like a lot of em lately. They have refurb amps like the XPA2 2nd gen for about 15% off on occassion. They also just had a labor day sale on new amps, so keep an eye out for those.

Third, although I absolutely love my Sierra towers, my decision to buy them over say the Sierra 2's was purely an asthetic. I love the look of towers its my thing, please dont judge me. Im sure you have probably read somewhere on this forum, that one of the reasons to go with towers over bookshelves is the full range capability. Most towers really are not full range at least until you get into new car money. The Sierra 2's can be ordered with the custom RAAL tweet, which I can't recommend enough. Paired with that nice HSU sub you have, should sound pretty sweet. In addition, the money saved could go toward the Sierra center or a matching HSU. I am by no means trying to talk you out of the towers, just giving you food for thought.

Thanks JB! I do plan on going with Denon or Marantz. I'd actually pretty much made my mind up to get the Denon X4100 but once I realized its not HDCP 2.2 compliant I've had second thoughts. I'm not 4k yet, and don't plan on being 4k any time in the near future, but I fear getting an AVR that's going to hinder me down the line??

Thanks for the heads up on the Emo sales. I'll be sure to keep an eye on that!! As for the towers, I'm actually like you in that respect. They just look awesome and I like that!! Perhaps for the time being I might get Ascend's pedestal stands to go with my 340's. Not sure why I didn't do that from the beginning.

There are a number of combinations that I could upgrade, and I like that. Like you said, its fun! I'd love another HSU, but I'm going to have a problem with space. My wife has a big ole sectional in "my" game room, and with my lazy boy recliner in there, it just takes up too much space for a second sub. There is a place I could put a 2nd sub, but with the sectional I wouldn't be able to put them in opposite corners. Not sure how big of a deal that would be?

Agree. Just be sure you don't expect double the performance with a second sub.

When you run XT32, it will set the volume of each sub independently, (w/ the X4100), just like it sets the volume of your Left/Right. But when playing music or movies, you don't get twice the volume. What you get is balance, if you position them properly. I mean, the bass will have the same thump and sound at every listening position, not just your seat.

Is it worth it? YOU BET!!! And if you ever get a hankerin' to show off a big Bing/Bang/Boom movie to friends, you can crank them both up rattle their spleens.

Yes, from some reading I had done I was aware that two subs doesn't = double boom! Which is good because I'd probably break a window or something, LOL. But yeah, I think it would be "worth it" too!

 

[Ty Wayne]

TV lifespan depends on how much you watch it, not how old it is. Some of the more recent plasmas were claiming a life of 100,000+ hours. Given that yours is already 7-8 years old, maybe estimate 50k hours to be safe. Not sure how many hours/day you leave the tv on, but that's a pretty big number. If you watch 8 hours/day every day of the year, that's almost 20 years of life. At a minimum, unless you have a historically unpredictable model, I would say you have at least 4-5 years left in your tv.

Okay thanks for that. Hopefully I'll be good for a while more. Number one, I'd rather spend money on audio if I can. Number two, I still love my tv. It has a great picture IMO. As far as I know, people haven't had a lot of problems with them. FWIW, the model is a TH-50PZ77U.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Question guys.......

I was doing some messing around this evening with my sub and I ran into something that's puzzling me. I was listening to some music that has pretty good bass, and I was switching back and forth between two channel stereo and five channel stereo. Well, I was standing right beside the sub one time when I switched from 2 to 5 channels and I noticed quite a lot of difference in my sub. Its hitting a good bit harder in 5 channel stereo than it does in two channel. Does anyone know why???

To listen to 5 channel stereo I simply switch my avr to whats called "ext.stereo", and this is when the sub is hitting harder. The manual sound level that I have my sub set at on the avr is +1. I checked, and this is the case in both two channel stereo and the five channel "ext.stereo" setting. So why is it hitting harder in ext.stereo???

 

[PENG]

Question guys.......

I was doing some messing around this evening with my sub and I ran into something that's puzzling me. I was listening to some music that has pretty good bass, and I was switching back and forth between two channel stereo and five channel stereo. Well, I was standing right beside the sub one time when I switched from 2 to 5 channels and I noticed quite a lot of difference in my sub. Its hitting a good bit harder in 5 channel stereo than it does in two channel. Does anyone know why???

To listen to 5 channel stereo I simply switch my avr to whats called "ext.stereo", and this is when the sub is hitting harder. The manual sound level that I have my sub set at on the avr is +1. I checked, and this is the case in both two channel stereo and the five channel "ext.stereo" setting. So why is it hitting harder in ext.stereo???

I assume you have done the right thing by setting the center and surrounds to small so in the so called 5 channel stereo the sub will naturally have to take care of the frequencies below the crossover points for not only the L,R but also the C, SR and SL. If you sit in your normal listening area you will likely not hear the sub hitting much louder if you have the level of all 5 channels properly balanced. Since you were standing right beside the sub, it would be normal for you to hear it hit louder because the levels were adjusted (by the Pioneer's MCACC room EQ system, or you did it manually) for the proper balance only when you sit in your normal listening position.

 

[Ty Wayne]

I assume you have done the right thing by setting the center and surrounds to small so in the so called 5 channel stereo the sub will naturally have to take care of the frequencies below the crossover points for not only the L,R but also the C, SR and SL. If you sit in your normal listening area you will likely not hear the sub hitting much louder if you have the level of all 5 channels properly balanced. Since you were standing right beside the sub, it would be normal for you to hear it hit louder because the levels were adjusted (by the Pioneer's MCACC room EQ system, or you did it manually) for the proper balance only when you sit in your normal listening position.

I see. I guess that makes sense. So since the avr knows all five channels are playing it bumps up the sub a little to fill the room? Do I have that right?

And yes, I do have all speakers set to small.

Thanks!

 

[herbu]

So since the avr knows all five channels are playing it bumps up the sub a little to fill the room?

I would say it a little differently.
With speakers set to Small, everything under the crossover goes to the sub. In 2-channel stereo, the sub gets the signals intended for the Left and Right. In All-channel stereo, the sub gets the signals intended for the L/C/R/SL/SR/, (and the rear surrounds in a 7.1 system).

 

[Ty Wayne]

I would say it a little differently.
With speakers set to Small, everything under the crossover goes to the sub. In 2-channel stereo, the sub gets the signals intended for the Left and Right. In All-channel stereo, the sub gets the signals intended for the L/C/R/SL/SR/, (and the rear surrounds in a 7.1 system).

I see. Yeah, that makes good sense. I understand now. Thank you!

 

[Ty Wayne]

Another question....

I've recently rearranged my room and when I did I never did the crawl for sub location, that is until last night. Good news is I found a spot I can put it that sounds good. Bad news is I'm going to need about a 50 foot cable!

I'm little unsure about this topic. On one hand I've seen many recommendations for blue jean cable's. On the other hand, I remember a lot of you guys poo-pooing the idea of spending a lot of money on a cable. Previously I went with a $10.00, 15 foot Mediabridge cable. But what I'm concerned about now is the long run I have to make.

I can get a 50 foot Mediabridge on Amazon for $20.00. Or, I saw recommendations on these forums for a blue jean LC-1 cable. Problem is, 50 feet is going to cost me about $70.00!!!!

Do I need to invest in a better cable for a long run???

 

[PENG]

Another question....

I've recently rearranged my room and when I did I never did the crawl for sub location, that is until last night. Good news is I found a spot I can put it that sounds good. Bad news is I'm going to need about a 50 foot cable!

I'm little unsure about this topic. On one hand I've seen many recommendations for blue jean cable's. On the other hand, I remember a lot of you guys poo-pooing the idea of spending a lot of money on a cable. Previously I went with a $10.00, 15 foot Mediabridge cable. But what I'm concerned about now is the long run I have to make.

I can get a 50 foot Mediabridge on Amazon for $20.00. Or, I saw recommendations on these forums for a blue jean LC-1 cable. Problem is, 50 feet is going to cost me about $70.00!!!!

Do I need to invest in a better cable for a long run???

At that length I would say get one known to have good shielding, something like a Blue Jean cables should be fine.

 

[markw]

Or else there's this option. It might be a little more but it seems like it's made for these situatuations.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-link-xr-24-ghz-wireless-audio-transmitter-receiver-system-for-subwoofers--300-580?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

 

[Ty Wayne]

Or else there's this option. It might be a little more but it seems like it's made for these situatuations.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-link-xr-24-ghz-wireless-audio-transmitter-receiver-system-for-subwoofers--300-580?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

Whoa! I didn't know such a thing existed! Yeah, its 60 bucks but that's still cheaper than 70 bucks for blue jean cable. You reckon it works good??


EDIT - I see there a quite a bit reviews on the parts express site. Reading them now. This is very cool! Thank you!