BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,714 22 38
It was a fun car to scoot around town in but the fit and finish just wasn't what I like. The cabin noise was ungodly and the seats actually killed my legs, butt and back after just a 30 minute ride. Since I basically work out of my car it has to be comfortable. It was a horrible road trip car, my wife was uncomfortable in it too.
The older I get the more important ride quality comes. I love the performance of my Accord 2.0 EX-L, but I really wish I didn't go for $40/m savings for the extra cost of Touring model which comes with active suspension. As it is now it's step back from my Outback ride quality.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
1,232 9 16
The older I get the more important ride quality comes. I love the performance of my Accord 2.0 EX-L, but I really wish I didn't go for $40 savings for the extra cost of Touring model which comes with active suspension. As it is now it's step back from my Outback ride quality.
That touring model is very nice! Glad your enjoying as Honda has stepped up the accord nicely.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,227 11
Well, the Bimmer didn't work out for me so back to AMG. This one is a pure beast. Car and Driver clocked the 0-60 at 3.2. and 1/4 @11.70. I am slowly breaking it in but man can you tell it has power.













Can't have much faith in its reliability, if you feel a need to carry spare transportation on the roof...:D
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic General
Ratings
559
Well, the Bimmer didn't work out for me so back to AMG. This one is a pure beast. Car and Driver clocked the 0-60 at 3.2. and 1/4 @11.70. I am slowly breaking it in but man can you tell it has power.













Super nice!...I have a bimmer...535i (wifey drives it)...in general, IDK why the Germans have given in to American steering, but once AMG gets their hands on a Benz...straight line power is never compromised!

I'm getting the itch again, but I want a coupe this time, and feeling some kind of way about the Audi S5 right now, but that could change.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,179 6 1
The older I get the more important ride quality comes. I love the performance of my Accord 2.0 EX-L, but I really wish I didn't go for $40/m savings for the extra cost of Touring model which comes with active suspension. As it is now it's step back from my Outback ride quality.
Ride quality is a big one for me too. My truck rides like crap, but solid axles and 12 years will do that. Wife's Durango rides great. Better than I realized because most of the rentals I've had over the last few months haven't been as good. Granted, DCs roads aren't exactly smooth...

They did give me a 2019 Mustang GT and while the ride sucked, that sucker moved. Not as fast as Greg's new ride obviously...
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,714 22 38
Ride quality is a big one for me too. My truck rides like crap, but solid axles and 12 years will do that. Wife's Durango rides great. Better than I realized because most of the rentals I've had over the last few months haven't been as good. Granted, DCs roads aren't exactly smooth...

They did give me a 2019 Mustang GT and while the ride sucked, that sucker moved. Not as fast as Greg's new ride obviously...
Just to be clear, it's not terrible - it's not a live axle or leaf springs. In fact pretty decent, but I'm saying that the touring model I took for a test drive had, in fact, a better ride.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Full Audioholic
Ratings
151
I think Id like an AWD or FWD in my next car. Never had one but it might be nice to have the extra traction.
 
Montucky

Montucky

Full Audioholic
Ratings
178
The older I get the more important ride quality comes. I love the performance of my Accord 2.0 EX-L, but I really wish I didn't go for $40/m savings for the extra cost of Touring model which comes with active suspension. As it is now it's step back from my Outback ride quality.
I hear ya. I used to be all about crotch rockets and sports cars, but now I drive a freaking luxobarge Volvo XC70 wagon. Boooooring, but If ride quality is important, give Volvo a serious look for your next car. Those Swedes have utterly perfected butt ergonomics. It's definitely not sporty (far from it in fact),but I really love that I can drive across the entire country non-stop except for gas and feel just fine at the end of the road, even with my bad back and usual aches. I've done the trek from Montana to South Texas and back (over 3300 miles RT) multiple times without stopping in a single hotel, so I know! Haha.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,631 7 7
I think Id like an AWD or FWD in my next car. Never had one but it might be nice to have the extra traction.
FWD always has terrible handling, because the engine and the transmission will be transverse-mounted forward of the front axle, putting weight on the nose of the car, which causes sluggish handling and understeer. (If you're not aware, understeer means that the car resists turning in the direction you're trying to steer. Oversteer means the car over-reacts to steering input in the direction of the turn, and might spin.) And don't be fooled by AWD vehicles with transverse front engine architecture, which is what FWD cars use. AWD can mitigate the effect of transverse mounting, but it mostly doesn't.

Powerful FWD cars also suffer from a malady called torque steer. This is because the drive wheels also steer the car, and the torque the drivetrain applies to the steering mechanism causes pulling to the left or the right. The Chevy Impala V6 I had as a rental car this past weekend had very annoying torque steer.

Best chassis architectures (in order of merit, with examples):

1. Rear mid-engine. (Porsche Cayman/Boxster, Audi R8, most Ferarris, Lambos, BMW i8, etc.)
2. Front mid-engine. (Corvette, some mostly older BMWs, Porsche 928)
3. Rear engine (Porsche 911)
4. Front engine (engine placed over the front axle, mounted longitudinally, transmission is behind the axle; most RWD cars)
5. Transverse front engine (all FWD cars, many AWD cars)

AWD always improves performance and handling. For really powerful vehicles it's dumb not to have it. (Like a Corvette.) But AWD with transverse front-engine architecture is still a big compromise. I didn't realize how much until I bought an Audi S3.
 
Last edited:
davidscott

davidscott

Full Audioholic
Ratings
151
FWD always has terrible handling, because the engine and the transmission will be transverse-mounted forward of the front axle, putting weight on the nose of the car, which causes sluggish handling and understeer. (If you're not aware, understeer means that the car resists turning in the direction you're trying to steer. Oversteer means the over-reacts to steering input in the direction of the turn, and might spin.) And don't be fooled by AWD vehicles with transverse front engine architecture, which is what FWD cars use. AWD can mitigate the effect of transverse mounting, but it mostly doesn't.

Powerful FWD cars also suffer from a malady called torque steer. This is because the drive wheels also steer the car, and the torque the drivetrain applies to the steering mechanism causes pulling to the left or the right. The Chevy Impala V6 I had as a rental car this past weekend had very annoying torque steer.

Best chassis architectures (in order of merit, with examples):

1. Rear mid-engine. (Porsche Cayman/Boxster, Audi R8, most Ferarris, Lambos, BMW i8, etc.)
2. Front mid-engine. (Corvette, some mostly older BMWs, Porsche 928)
3. Rear engine (Porsche 911)
4. Front engine (engine placed over the front axle, mounted longitudinally, transmission is behind the axle; most RWD cars)
5. Transverse front engine (all FWD cars, many AWD cars)

AWD always improves performance and handling. For really powerful vehicles it's dumb not to have it. (Like a Corvette.) But AWD with transverse front-engine architecture is still a big compromise. I didn't realize how much until I bought an Audi S3.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I meant 4wd not FrontWD (I have that now) but it is nice to know about the AWDs limitations. Thanks again
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,714 22 38
FWD always has terrible handling, because the engine and the transmission will be transverse-mounted forward of the front axle, putting weight on the nose of the car, which causes sluggish handling and understeer. (If you're not aware, understeer means that the car resists turning in the direction you're trying to steer. Oversteer means the over-reacts to steering input in the direction of the turn, and might spin.) And don't be fooled by AWD vehicles with transverse front engine architecture, which is what FWD cars use. AWD can mitigate the effect of transverse mounting, but it mostly doesn't.
Civic Type R, Fiat 500 Abrath, Fiesta ST, Accord, Merc GLA, Audi A3... Should I continue?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,631 7 7
Civic Type R, Fiat 500 Abrath, Fiesta ST, Accord, Merc GLA, Audi A3... Should I continue?
I haven't driven every one of those cars, but the Accord, the GLA, and the A3 all understeer and feel like crap on curvy roads. They work ok in a straight line or on gentle curves. Otherwise, as Lucy would say, Blech. Just like with speakers, you can't fight physics.

You can play tricks, and AWD is a nice trick for mitigating understeer. Another trick is making the front tires wider than the rears; the Audi RS3 version with the special suspension - which is just a version of the A3 - does that. But in the end you still have a car with a lousy architecture. It may otherwise be a very nice car, but tights curves will always reveal their weakness.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic General
Ratings
559
I hear ya. I used to be all about crotch rockets and sports cars, but now I drive a freaking luxobarge Volvo XC70 wagon. Boooooring, but If ride quality is important, give Volvo a serious look for your next car. Those Swedes have utterly perfected butt ergonomics. It's definitely not sporty (far from it in fact),but I really love that I can drive across the entire country non-stop except for gas and feel just fine at the end of the road, even with my bad back and usual aches. I've done the trek from Montana to South Texas and back (over 3300 miles RT) multiple times without stopping in a single hotel, so I know! Haha.
I still prefer a fun to drive car...acceleration, cornering, braking, instead of a great riding car, but a flatout sports car, I wouldn't last 2 weeks. My brother in law has a 911, and my golf buddy has a Vette...beautiful machines, but just getting in and out of them was a chore for me....much less a bone jarring bump in the road.

The 1st car I ever bought myself...'83 Volvo 240 GL...that's when Volvo had it going, those were well built cars with thru Euro steering...I trust they have overcome any lingering Ford influence.
FWD always has terrible handling, because the engine and the transmission will be transverse-mounted forward of the front axle, putting weight on the nose of the car, which causes sluggish handling and understeer. (If you're not aware, understeer means that the car resists turning in the direction you're trying to steer. Oversteer means the over-reacts to steering input in the direction of the turn, and might spin.) And don't be fooled by AWD vehicles with transverse front engine architecture, which is what FWD cars use. AWD can mitigate the effect of transverse mounting, but it mostly doesn't.

Powerful FWD cars also suffer from a malady called torque steer. This is because the drive wheels also steer the car, and the torque the drivetrain applies to the steering mechanism causes pulling to the left or the right. The Chevy Impala V6 I had as a rental car this past weekend had very annoying torque steer.

Best chassis architectures (in order of merit, with examples):

1. Rear mid-engine. (Porsche Cayman/Boxster, Audi R8, most Ferarris, Lambos, BMW i8, etc.)
2. Front mid-engine. (Corvette, some mostly older BMWs, Porsche 928)
3. Rear engine (Porsche 911)
4. Front engine (engine placed over the front axle, mounted longitudinally, transmission is behind the axle; most RWD cars)
5. Transverse front engine (all FWD cars, many AWD cars)

AWD always improves performance and handling. For really powerful vehicles it's dumb not to have it. (Like a Corvette.) But AWD with transverse front-engine architecture is still a big compromise. I didn't realize how much until I bought an Audi S3.
FWD cars have their place, but FWD performance cars are largely shunned by driving enthusiasts.
 
GrimSurfer

GrimSurfer

Senior Audioholic
Ratings
210 9 7
I haven't driven every one of those cars, but the Accord, the GLA, and the A3 all understeer and feel like crap on curvy roads. They work ok in a straight line or on gentle curves. Otherwise, as Lucy would say, Blech. Just like with speakers, you can't fight physics.

You can play tricks, and AWD is a nice trick for mitigating understeer. Another trick is making the front tires wider than the rears; the Audi RS3 version with the special suspension - which is just a version of the A3 - does that. But in the end you still have a car with a lousy architecture. It may otherwise be a very nice car, but tights curves will always reveal their weakness.
AWD is beneficial for many things, but not necessarily dry handling because of a thing called "polar moment of inertia". This, along with poor torque split, is why almost all AWD cars understeer quite a bit at the limit.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,714 22 38
I haven't driven every one of those cars, but the Accord, the GLA, and the A3 all understeer and feel like crap on curvy roads. They work ok in a straight line or on gentle curves. Otherwise, as Lucy would say, Blech. Just like with speakers, you can't fight physics.

You can play tricks, and AWD is a nice trick for mitigating understeer. Another trick is making the front tires wider than the rears; the Audi RS3 version with the special suspension - which is just a version of the A3 - does that. But in the end you still have a car with a lousy architecture. It may otherwise be a very nice car, but tights curves will always reveal their weakness.
Looks like you're not entirely wrong on account of A3,
from https://www.autozeitung.de/audi-a3-sportback-bmw-118i-kompaktklasse-test-171993.html#fahrdynamik

On the handling course, the Audi is very agile. Change of direction is easy for him, the skilfully tuned ESP holds discreetly in the background. Who presses the ESP button, raises the control threshold of the system and can look forward to well-dosed load change reactions, which - skilfully provoked - the Audi A3 Sportback 1.8 TFSI even easier around the corner. However, the picture tarnishes a comparatively imprecise steering and strong body movements, which are at the expense of accuracy. Even the somewhat doughy brake pedal feeling bothers something, although there is nothing to complain about the braking power.
 

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