Need help selecting a new AVR

[TLS Guy]

How would someone break an AVP?

Sound United was a vanity purchase by someone who had n experience with that kind of business. While someone can do what they want with their own money, this isn't a single item, it was major players in the consumer audio/video industry.

Uh, re-read your post if you want to see a good example of 'lack of self control', BTW.

Yes, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

How would someone break an AVP?

Oh, people can break ANYTHING.

I’ve seen people plugging wires/cables to their AVP from their amps while the amps were powered on. And end up having to send their Marantz in for repair.

Sound United was a vanity purchase by someone who had no experience with that kind of business.

Bryston started out as a medical device manufacturer also.

So Bryston might have inspired the Masimo guy.

But like you said, SU was way too much to handle.

If SU were just B&W speakers and Classe Amps, Masimo might have succeeded. Who knows.

 

[Alex2507]

If you keep this up, I will make a formal complaint to the mods.

I did.

#Me Too

He made it from my ignore list to my eff him list.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think he's related to Trell.

Nah. Trell is related to. Dung heap.
And in his defense, Treb has lots of valuable info on interoperability and compatibility of components.

 

[highfigh]

Oh, people can break ANYTHING.

I’ve seen people plugging wires/cables to their AVP from their amps while the amps were powered on. And end up having to send their Marantz in for repair.



Bryston started out as a medical device manufacturer also.

So Bryston might have inspired the Masimo guy.

But like you said, SU was way too much to handle.

If SU were just B&W speakers and Classe Amps, Masimo might have succeeded. Who knows.

Trust me, I know people can blow up anything but Mark knows how to connect equipment. I meant "How can someone blow up an AVP under normal conditions and use?".

But Bryston was created before so much changed in manufacturing, the market and the world.

I don't know if he could have succeeded with just those two brands- not sure the global market for them is large enough but SU definitely wouldn't have lost as much as they did under his ownership.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Trust me, I know people can blow up anything but Mark knows how to connect equipment. I meant "How can someone blow up an AVP under normal conditions and use?"

Not likely. But not 100% IMPOSSIBLE.

Someone ELSE could have tampered (abnormal conditions and use) without TLS’s knowledge. Still not likely, but again not 100% IMPOSSIBLE.

Let’s look at it another way.

What’s are the ODDS of ONE person having TWO broken AVP’s in the “same time” period? That seems extremely unlucky. I would say the odds are low.

So not likely, but not 100% IMPOSSIBLE.

I do NOT think TLS “broke” his AVP. But I am not 100% sure nobody else ever “touched” his 2 AVPs.

Anyway, this thread has gotten off course.

Good choices for the OP:
Denon X3800, X4800, X6800
Yamaha RX-A6A

 

[moves]

Please, go play with your AV10 and shut the f#%k up.

All this is valid info he's not hijacking the thread! Your useless posts are cluttering though.

 

[moves]

If you keep this up, I will make a formal complaint to the mods.

In choosing a receiver the problems created for Sound United by Masimo are extremely germane to the topic at hand. The CEO of Harmon, the new owners, highlighted their supply chain issues as a top priority to address as hifigh has also stated.

I did not break those AV 7705 and 7706. There failure was due to substandard components. Marantz did not have parts to service my 7705 for the length of time required by law. So it went to the recycling center.

I still have not had my 7706 returned but have been informed it has been sent to an outfit in the State of Kansas.

Both the 7705 and 7706 were rack mounted with tons of room for air flow and ventilation in a room with a controlled environment.

This house has all surge requirements as per NEC24, the latest codes.

Each of my three racks have professional APC UPS units which tightly regulate over and under voltage, with soft shut down in the event of power loss. Nothing was connected to them, that could have even under the remotest possibility caused them damage. So your comments are slanderous.

These units failed because of substandard components.

This is all germaine and relevant to the OPs original question.

My advice is not to purchase a receiver or pre/pro made under the Sound United ownership unless it was made in the Denon factory in Shirakawa Japan until the units under new management start to come on line.

Dude, TLS Guy knows what he's talking about. He's helped me a few times in the past and is a legend on this forum. Give him a break.

 

[moves]

Wait. So has the OP mentioned about which AVR Receiver he is getting?

haha probably the Denon route. I like TLS guy's advice to avoid vietnamese and china brands. so likely the 4800.

 

[everettT]

haha probably the Denon route. I like TLS guy's advice to avoid vietnamese and china brands. so likely the 4800.

I'm not sure if you're interested in used but you can find the Denon AVR-A1H for just a few hundred dollars more than a new 4800. I have the 4800 in one of my setups and have never had any issues with it and have been satisfied.

 

[Trebdp83]

Dude, TLS Guy knows what he's talking about. He's helped me a few times in the past and is a legend on this forum. Give him a break.

I'll always yield to and respond to the OP of a given thread. I'm also a person of limited patience for propaganda and plain old bulls#%t. There are some on this forum who may admit to having shouted "Shut the f#%k up!" to a loved one for any number of reasons after their nerves were shot and their patience limit reached. It is an easier thing to do to an insufferable stranger concerning their vehement denunciation of AVRs. Some pride themselves with having the best of the best systems and are very quick to brag about it and condemn lesser systems by others consisting of AVRs. They are just as quick to throw themselves on the floor and cry like a selfish brat when their toys break and they are embarrassed and humiliated by the event.

I've used many Denon/Marantz AVRs over the years. Some were made in Japan, some made elsewhere. I've also used a few Onkyos, a Pioneer and a couple of Yamaha AVRs. None of them failed, though one was returned for behavior I found glitchy. Often, misplacement, misuse or a misconnection of components to an AVP/AVR will result in its failure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So are there any reasons to get the X6800 over the X4800 if you only have 9 speakers?

Is the X4800 “better” than the Yamaha RX-A6A?

 

[TLS Guy]

haha probably the Denon route. I like TLS guy's advice to avoid vietnamese and china brands. so likely the 4800.

I think you are correct. Unreliability and premature failure is a massive PITA. Assessing reliability in any purchase is the toughest part, and impossible to be precise about. However others experiences matter.

One nutter here thinks I had a hand in the failures of the 7705 and 7706 when I absolutely did not. They were in an absolutely optimal environment. Now it is not that you could never have a failure and even an early one. How the manufacturer handles failures is very important.

I have been lucky, and had very few equipment failures in 70 odd years. This is partly equipment selection, but I take care of it and don't abuse it. All my serious issues have involved my AVPs.

This has been the story. My first AVP was a Marantz 8003 in 2006. It failed almost right away due to a regulator in the power supply failure. The then owners of Marantz had it fixed and returned at what I would call lightening speed.
In 2012 we had a Townhome here in Eagan, that my wife mainly used while working at Allina Heart Institute. I have to admit the system there was rather cobbled together. She demanded an upgraded system. So I bought my first 7701 and installed a 3.1 system with a Panny plasma TV. Both are still working.

I liked it and bought another to replace the 8003 at our lake home and bought a larger Panny plasma TV. Both are still in regular use, in our great room and family room. The 8003 is in storage and as far as I know still works.

So when we moved from the lake home we built our current AV room which was 11.2 because I had the gear to it except for the AVP. That is when I bought the 7705 in 2019.

It developed a hum present even when muted and eventually sent out a gigantic bang and took out the output to the left rear surround. Fortunately no speakers were damaged. Marantz under Masimo/Sound United did not have the parts to repair it, which in itself was a disgrace.

So, unwisely I bought a Marantz 7706, this developed a similar fault in 3 months. So I took it out of service and bought the AV 10, which I should have done right after the 7705 debacle.

Now the 7706 has been in for repair for almost five months. All I have heard is that they have sent it, to a different facility. Which ever way you look at it, that is dreadful customer service. Both the 7705 and 7706 were made in Vietnam. So clearly both have had a component failure and by the way they behaved, most likely a cap failure.

Now, I believe all this is relevant to your question in the first post.

Harmon have only had Sound United for a few short weeks, and have had nowhere near enough time to bring about meaningful change. The worst thing that can happen with a major purchase is early failure, especially if customer support is lousy to non existent.

So, I have been trying to steer you to reliability. I think Yamaha is probably a safe choice as I stated.

For Denon at this time I have to say that a unit manufactured at the Shirakawa plant in Japan is the safer choice. The above are my reasons for giving you that recommendation.

 

[PENG]

haha probably the Denon route. I like TLS guy's advice to avoid vietnamese and china brands. so likely the 4800.

Just a cautionary note, the perceived quality issues of many things may not have much to do with made in China, Vietnam, and other countries in the far East any more, on other audio forums such as the popular ASR, there has been more reports of issues with the made in Japan Denon than those made in Vietnam.

Below is screenshot of entries returned on a quick keyword search query:

One member made his observations re: 3800 vs 4800 reliability:
Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review | Page 118 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
He stated in his post the following:

It's not just ASR either. I'm a longtime member at the AVSforum and I see more anecdotal reports of issues w/the 4800 vs the 3800. Based on the pricing difference you would expect the base rate of 3800 owners to far outnumber 4800 owners and reports of issues to follow suit proportionally. However, I have not found this to be the case and actually the opposite is true!

Obviously such forum posts are not a reliable way of determining whether one will likely be more, or less reliable than another, but I do think it could be taken as an indication that the original of manufacturing/assembling is probably not as relevant as things were say 10-15 years ago. Again, a good example would be, for those old enough, they must know how unreliable (as perceived in general at the time) the made in Japan Toyota, Honda, Datsun used to be back in the 60s and even 70s, but certainly not the case since the 80's. We may have been seeing the same phenomenon/trend with audio gear now happening with the made in the far East, or Global south products.

 

[Trebdp83]

So are there any reasons to get the X6800 over the X4800 if you only have 9 speakers?

Is the X4800 “better” than the Yamaha RX-A6A?

Choosing the X6800H over the X4800H gets you a few more features like the “Bass Extraction” setting which allows selection of the level of frequencies copied to the subwoofer when speakers are set to Large rather than being limited to a fixed 80Hz setting. The “2CH Playback” setting allows one to make separate subwoofer settings for Direct mode playback of two channel signals and when using Stereo mode. The X6800H supports Front Wide channels and can bi-amp five channels.

The X4800H includes features not present in the RX-A6A. This will make it “better” to some and not matter at all to others. Some might shop for AVRs like they do cars and start with the looks of the thing. Some might consider the Yamaha “better” in this regard while others the Denon.

One should start with what it is they need in a new unit. The list of units in the running can be narrowed down quite quickly when comparing feature sets. If “made in Japan” is also a need, the list of considerations shrinks dramatically. Though, “made in Japan” does not actually carry a guarantee of quality and reliability.

 

[highfigh]

I'm not sure what part of the assembly in one plant would be better than work done in another- they aren't manually stuffing boards, winding transformers and selecting parts, after all. They receive bins with parts that are sourced from wherever procurement decides and the finished AVR/AVP goes for firmware and some kind of testing. I'll be replacing a 14 year old Denon with a new one because the old one is now obsolete WRT HDMI protocols and the clients want to be able to use the TV as a source via its streaming capabilities and ARC. The problem that prompted the replacement was caused by the HDMI extender failing and no longer passing video- I used another small TV to make sure the AVR was still passing video and made sure the TV would show video from another source.

The point is, there's nothing about the appearance of the new AVR or its packaging that would make me think it's inferior to a unit from Japan or anywhere else.

 

[PENG]

So are there any reasons to get the X6800 over the X4800 if you only have 9 speakers?

Is the X4800 “better” than the Yamaha RX-A6A?

In my opinion, no, but substitute it with the X3800H, the answer would be yes, at least in Canada when the X3800H has been at at low at C$1499 this year. Based on exch rate at 0.72 (depend on the day obviously), that's USD1080. Effects of Tariff right?

[Amazon.ca] Denon AVR-X3800H $1499 - RedFlagDeals.com Forums

 

[moves]

Choosing the X6800H over the X4800H gets you a few more features like the “Bass Extraction” setting which allows selection of the level of frequencies copied to the subwoofer when speakers are set to Large rather than being limited to a fixed 80Hz setting. The “2CH Playback” setting allows one to make separate subwoofer settings for Direct mode playback of two channel signals and when using Stereo mode. The X6800H supports Front Wide channels and can bi-amp five channels.

The X4800H includes features not present in the RX-A6A. This will make it “better” to some and not matter at all to others. Some might shop for AVRs like they do cars and start with the looks of the thing. Some might consider the Yamaha “better” in this regard while others the Denon.

One should start with what it is they need in a new unit. The list of units in the running can be narrowed down quite quickly when comparing feature sets. If “made in Japan” is also a need, the list of considerations shrinks dramatically. Though, “made in Japan” does not actually carry a guarantee of quality and reliability.

Pretty sure the 4800 has 11 channels but only 9 are driven.

 

[moves]

Just a cautionary note, the perceived quality issues of many things may not have much to do with made in China, Vietnam, and other countries in the far East any more, on other audio forums such as the popular ASR, there has been more reports of issues with the made in Japan Denon than those made in Vietnam.

Below is screenshot of entries returned on a quick keyword search query:

View attachment 76309

One member made his observations re: 3800 vs 4800 reliability:
Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review | Page 118 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
He stated in his post the following:


Obviously such forum posts are not a reliable way of determining whether one will likely be more, or less reliable than another, but I do think it could be taken as an indication that the original of manufacturing/assembling is probably not as relevant as things were say 10-15 years ago. Again, a good example would be, for those old enough, they must know how unreliable (as perceived in general at the time) the made in Japan Toyota, Honda, Datsun used to be back in the 60s and even 70s, but certainly not the case since the 80's. We may have been seeing the same phenomenon/trend with audio gear now happening with the made in the far East, or Global south products.

Well that throws a wrench into things lol.

 

[moves]

So are there any reasons to get the X6800 over the X4800 if you only have 9 speakers?

Is the X4800 “better” than the Yamaha RX-A6A?

I thought the Denon has better room correction than the Yamaha?