R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
This next one is deq off I believe and audyssey still on
0CAB0076-6EF9-4360-A064-F0D5B97BF82C.jpeg
0CAB0076-6EF9-4360-A064-F0D5B97BF82C.jpeg
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Disregard the bottom pic, I hit it twice on accident, it’s the same pic as above it
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
This next pic just focus on the very top one. All these pics are with one port plugged eq1 and the phase on my rear was still at 180. The very top one on this pic is with the phase at 0
5E13FB30-5041-4371-B91B-28BDFD451C62.jpeg
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
I’m pretty sure I was screwing the runs up but idk. The pics I posted other day was with my rear sub phase at 180. And I had both ports open eq2. Tonight before work I had one port plugged eq1 and the phase on my rear sub was still at 180 except for the last run I did and I switched the phase to 0. When I’m making these sweeps, I’m assuming the phase needs to be at 0 on my rear one? And when I run audyssey does phase need to be at 0 on my rear and switch it after or run audyssey with the phase at 180? While I’ve been doing all this, I had the test tones playing on the subs and checked spl for subs all together and when I switched the rear one to 180 the spl did go up between 1-2db so I left it at 180 and ran audyssey, guessing I’m wrong? I didn’t apply any smoothing on the pics. I didn’t have a lot of time when I was down there tonight to really get into it
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
And sorry if any of this sounds repetitive, I just want these dialed in so I can sit back and enjoy but to do that I’ve got to ask you guys questions. All of you have more experience than me with rew
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
And when I run audyssey does phase need to be at 0 on my rear and switch it after or run audyssey with the phase at 180? While I’ve been doing all this, I had the test tones playing on the subs and checked spl for subs all together and when I switched the rear one to 180 the spl did go up between 1-2db so I left it at 180 and ran audyssey, guessing I’m wrong? I didn’t apply any smoothing on the pics. I didn’t have a lot of time when I was down there tonight to really get into it
Audyssey might have suggested that you leave it on 0 degree (that's usually the default), but there isn't much reason (I think there is, but it's complicated..) to start with 180 either. If you had it set to 0 degree when running Audyssey, then you do NOT change it to 180 after. Likewise if you had it at 180, after running Audyssey, leave it there, do NOT change it to 0. My preference, follow instructions to the letter first, so 0 degree for me, always.

Here's the logic:

- You made adjustments to your subs, call that setting A, then you run Audyssey, so Audyssey creates filters based on the way the sub performed with setting A (the adj setting on the sub panel).

- Now you change the sub setting, so now you have sub setting B.

How can you expect Audyssey's filter to work well, that was created under sub setting A condition and now you changed it to setting B? By chance it could be better, but that would be random, by chance right?

Yes you can make slight incremental adjustment such as changing it from 0 to 20 degrees, or from 180 to 160 degrees if you then run Audyssey to check the results, but it is better to use the App because then you can save the original filter set, and can always go back, again, as long as you save the curve each time you edit with the App. I must have about 6 to 10 curves saved on my tablet, more on my desktop PC.

Note: If you use the App to make changes to the target curve, Audyssey will modify the filters accordingly so thing don't get messed up. If you make physical changes to the sub such as ports open/close, phase and levels etc., Audyssey will lose control, and in extreme case, you may as well turn it off.

I understand HSU suggested you can try different port and EQ setting after Audyssey, that's fine for people who don't have the luxury to use Audyssey and/or Editor App, and REW. In that case the user has to take such trial and error approach. You have the App, REW, so you don't need to follow HSU's. You still could, as long as the changes made are easily reversible, such as plugging unplugging ports, and as long as you use REW to compare the results and pick the one you prefer, by your ears, and eyes. You can also do the same with phase and levels if your HSU adj are made digitally, so you can again, always go back, if you record the original settings. If such changes are done via knobs, then it is better to leave them alone or you will lose track with your changes.

Simple rule: Run Audyssey according to instructions, follow it to the letter, then fine tune with the Editor App+Ratbuddyssey, run REW to compare results, save the best target curve, then you can start playing with different things to see if you can make further improvements.

I have spent countless hours on getting my bass flat (say within +/- 1 to 2 dB) down to 20 Hz, and sound good to me, with and without Audyssey, with and without minidsp 4XHD/REW. So I am not qualified to tell you not to go full blown anal about it, heck you have 3, 4 subs right, I only have 5:D, but I am trying help you not do it/learn it the hard way I did..if you in fact cannot leave things alone and like to play.. (Just sit back and enjoy now could be your best option too!!)

I think Pogre and William are doing the same, sharing their own experience, though we may have some slight disagreements on how to get it done.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Audyssey might have suggested that you leave it on 0 degree (that's usually the default), but there isn't much reason (I think there is, but it's complicated..) to start with 180 either. If you had it set to 0 degree when running Audyssey, then you do NOT change it to 180 after. Likewise if you had it at 180, after running Audyssey, leave it there, do NOT change it to 0. My preference, follow instructions to the letter first, so 0 degree for me, always.

Here's the logic:

- You made adjustments to your subs, call that setting A, then you run Audyssey, so Audyssey creates filters based on the way the sub performed with setting A (the adj setting on the sub panel).

- Now you change the sub setting, so now you have sub setting B.

How can you expect Audyssey's filter to work well, that was created under sub setting A condition and now you changed it to setting B? By chance it could be better, but that would be random, by chance right?

Yes you can make slight incremental adjustment such as changing it from 0 to 20 degrees, or from 180 to 160 degrees if you then run Audyssey to check the results, but it is better to use the App because then you can save the original filter set, and can always go back, again, as long as you save the curve each time you edit with the App. I must have about 6 to 10 curves saved on my tablet, more on my desktop PC.

Note: If you use the App to make changes to the target curve, Audyssey will modify the filters accordingly so thing don't get messed up. If you make physical changes to the sub such as ports open/close, phase and levels etc., Audyssey will lose control, and in extreme case, you may as well turn it off.

I understand HSU suggested you can try different port and EQ setting after Audyssey, that's fine for people who don't have the luxury to use Audyssey and/or Editor App, and REW. In that case the user has to take such trial and error approach. You have the App, REW, so you don't need to follow HSU's. You still could, as long as the changes made are easily reversible, such as plugging unplugging ports, and as long as you use REW to compare the results and pick the one you prefer, by your ears, and eyes. You can also do the same with phase and levels if your HSU adj are made digitally, so you can again, always go back, if you record the original settings. If such changes are done via knobs, then it is better to leave them alone or you will lose track with your changes.

Simple rule: Run Audyssey according to instructions, follow it to the letter, then fine tune with the Editor App+Ratbuddyssey, run REW to compare results, save the best target curve, then you can start playing with different things to see if you can make further improvements.

I have spent countless hours on getting my bass flat (say within +/- 1 to 2 dB) down to 20 Hz, and sound good to me, with and without Audyssey, with and without minidsp 4XHD/REW. So I am not qualified to tell you not to go full blown anal about it, heck you have 3, 4 subs right, I only have 5:D, but I am trying help you not do it/learn it the hard way I did..if you in fact cannot leave things alone and like to play.. (Just sit back and enjoy now could be your best option too!!)

I think Pogre and William are doing the same, sharing their own experience, though we may have some slight disagreements on how to get it done.
So what did you think of the sweeps not being smoothed?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
So what did you think of the sweeps not being smoothed?
It could be:

a) Audyssey can only do so much, how good the result is also depends on on your room and speakers/subs.
b) You did not follow instructions 100%, did you?

There could be other reasons but I think a), b) above are the main ones.

Remembers, dips are hard to correct, you can have the much more expensive REQ package such as Trinnov and Dirac Live, they can't do too much about big dips either.

Humps, however, are much easier to deal with. What you have now between 23 and 27 Hz is really not that bad as mentioned before. For the 3rd time I say this, you can leave it alone. If you hadn't used REW, you would have never known it exists right? To take the steps that I, and others have mentioned, is more for fun, theoretical, it may or may not result in any audible improvements to your ears.

Mine is very smooth, at 1/12th smoothing, I am getting less than 1 dB +/-, but I could be just as happy if I had left it alone and just use the one without customizing with the App.

1601139632952.png


and below is one that compares Audyssey off vs Audyssey Ref before editing vs Audyssey Ref after editing. Those may not be as good as my latest one in use, but I can't find that one, got too many in multiple folders.:D

1601140087769.png


You can see many more of mine, Pogre's, Jon AA and other's here:

 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Field Marshall
OK, so weird issue. Wanted to see if anyone here had some thoughts.

When I try to use the app, it's almost as if it doesn't hear my front left speaker. It puts the distance as 0 ft, with 0 db change, and has no filters for it. All the other speakers it makes filters for. It also doesn't allow me to change them from large to small. I was hoping to get it working so I could utilize it for 200Hz or so and under and leave the rest alone.
Don't know if this got lost in the shuffle, but anyone have any ideas?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Don't know if this got lost in the shuffle, but anyone have any ideas?
So if you run it without the App, everything would work fine? Have you try doing a processor reset on the AVR, and do an uninstall and re-install the App on your smart phone/tablet?
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
It could be:

a) Audyssey can only do so much, how good the result is also depends on on your room and speakers/subs.
b) You did not follow instructions 100%, did you?

There could be other reasons but I think a), b) above are the main ones.

Remembers, dips are hard to correct, you can have the much more expensive REQ package such as Trinnov and Dirac Live, they can't do too much about big dips either.

Humps, however, are much easier to deal with. What you have now between 23 and 27 Hz is really not that bad as mentioned before. For the 3rd time I say this, you can leave it alone. If you hadn't used REW, you would have never known it exists right? To take the steps that I, and others have mentioned, is more for fun, theoretical, it may or may not result in any audible improvements to your ears.

Mine is very smooth, at 1/12th smoothing, I am getting less than 1 dB +/-, but I could be just as happy if I had left it alone and just use the one without customizing with the App.

View attachment 40178

and below is one that compares Audyssey off vs Audyssey Ref before editing vs Audyssey Ref after editing. Those may not be as good as my latest one in use, but I can't find that one, got too many in multiple folders.:D

View attachment 40179

You can see many more of mine, Pogre's, Jon AA and other's here:

No I didn’t deviate from any advice you guys have given except switching my phase on last sweep which I’ll switch back to what it was. I followed hsu and Pogre’s advice with one port plugged and eq1. I wasn’t able to do anything today because I came into work early for ot. I want to use the app to bring down the hump, do I need another app with ratbudyssey? I opened the link Pogre sent me but it didn’t really tell me anything. I tried using my finger the other night on a crappy run I did in the app and it was a pain.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
No I didn’t deviate from any advice you guys have given except switching my phase on last sweep which I’ll switch back to what it was. I followed hsu and Pogre’s advice with one port plugged and eq1. I wasn’t able to do anything today because I came into work early for ot. I want to use the app to bring down the hump, do I need another app with ratbudyssey? I opened the link Pogre sent me but it didn’t really tell me anything. I tried using my finger the other night on a crappy run I did in the app and it was a pain.
I search and found the link I posted on the users thread, its in post#39. I tried it, it still works.


Download the zip file, unzipped it and use the Ratbuddyssey.exe file, ignore the rest that you won't need.

If you have questions, just ask, but I would suggest you read my post#59 and #144 as the answers may be there already.



If you follow those steps, you will end up with a much flatter curve for sure. After that it will take little time for you to create the popular curve that looks like the one below, the 2nd one from the top. The top one was preferred by untrained listeners only. You can see that your curve is already quite similar to the one most listeners preferred, at least in that particular study Dr. Toole referred to and that's why I thought you have a very good starting point.

If you are interested to read the full article, just sign up (free) and download it here:


1601212923813.png
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
No I didn’t deviate from any advice you guys have given except switching my phase on last sweep which I’ll switch back to what it was.
I meant follow Audyssey/Denon/Marantz's instructions to the letter, not ours.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Field Marshall
So if you run it without the App, everything would work fine? Have you try doing a processor reset on the AVR, and do an uninstall and re-install the App on your smart phone/tablet?
If I run through the receiver everything is fine. I have not tried a processor reset.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Ok cool. I just use my finger or do I need something else?
My comments are following Audyssey and Denon's instruction referred to running Audyssey.

If you are asking about using Ratbuddyssey, then yes you can just use fingers because Ratbuddyssey required you to type in the values, not drawing the curve like you would do if you use only the Editor App.

Did you look at the instructions for using Ratbuddsey in the users thread? Again, everything you need to know is in that thread. I can copy/paste them here if you want, just don't want to clutter this thread that others may not be interested in seeing, when the info is already in the one dedicated to the Editor App and Ratbuddssey.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
My comments are following Audyssey and Denon's instruction referred to running Audyssey.

If you are asking about using Ratbuddyssey, then yes you can just use fingers because Ratbuddyssey required you to type in the values, not drawing the curve like you would do if you use only the Editor App.

Did you look at the instructions for using Ratbuddsey in the users thread? Again, everything you need to know is in that thread. I can copy/paste them here if you want, just don't want to clutter this thread that others may not be interested in seeing, when the info is already in the one dedicated to the Editor App and Ratbuddssey.
I was talking about Ratbuddyssey. Maybe I’m stupid or just half asleep from getting up by I’ve been looking and I haven’t found it yet
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I was talking about Ratbuddyssey. Maybe I’m stupid or just half asleep from getting up by I’ve been looking and I haven’t found it yet
To download the Ratbuddyssey UI:


After that, focus on post#144, https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-audyssey-multeq-editor-app-users-thread-with-facts-and-tips.118005/page-8#post-1401884

It is my worked example:

I copied/pasted the interface below:

The bottom left table is where you would type in the boosts (+ve) and cuts (-ve) for each frequency. When you are done, you can save the file and send it to your device using the "shared" function iirc, or copy it to the smart device appropriate folder. Let me know when you are ready so I can post some screenshots you can follow. I haven't done it for a while so I will need a few minutes to recall how to do that, but rest assure it is easy to do.

1601226807260.png


The AVS thread has much more information, but I thought it may be too much, 32 pages, 633 posts and counting.:D

 
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