R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
I just ran aud. using the app but I have to go to work so I can’t play around. How do I know the changes I made in app are being used in the avr? When I checked avr, the settings are still the same from when I didn’t use the app.
In the app should midrange compensation be on/off and where should the frequency range be set?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
MRC should be off.
When you’re done, you have to send it to the AVR can’t remember the button, lol. It’s been too long since I did it...
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Senior Audioholic
I just ran aud. using the app but I have to go to work so I can’t play around. How do I know the changes I made in app are being used in the avr? When I checked avr, the settings are still the same from when I didn’t use the app.
In the app should midrange compensation be on/off and where should the frequency range be set?
There is an upload icon, third from the left, activates a drop down menu, send to av receiver.
turn midrange compensation off. I learned all this yesterday.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Ok thx guys. What about the frequency range, where should I set that? And, any idea why when I run audyssey through app it’s sets my second sub behind my couch at 11.8 ft but when I run audyssey without app it sets that sub at 5.2ft? Should I change the distance
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Also the app set my subs volume up front to -7.5 and my rear one at -6.5. Running audyssey without app it’s sets my front subs at -10 and my rear to -10, should I change their volumes?
 
B

beyondm3

Audiophyte
MRC should be off.
When you’re done, you have to send it to the AVR can’t remember the button, lol. It’s been too long since I did it...
Why is this an immediate turn off? Isn't this dependent on speakers, room, and just about any other variable to be considered? leading to YMMV per these variables?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Why is this an immediate turn off? Isn't this dependent on speakers, room, and just about any other variable to be considered? leading to YMMV per these variables?
Good point, but I guess the "expert's" views are that for well designed speakers that measured well in terms of in-room response, there is no need for the MRC. If you apply MRC to such speakers, you may do more harm than good. The final so called "sound quality" is a tough one still, because what an individual perceives as "better" is highly subjective that may apply the that individual only.
 
B

beyondm3

Audiophyte
Good point, but I guess the "expert's" views are that for well designed speakers that measured well in terms of in-room response, there is no need for the MRC. If you apply MRC to such speakers, you may do more harm than good. The final so called "sound quality" is a tough one still, because what an individual perceives as "better" is highly subjective that may apply the that individual only.
I agree to the subjectivity of this but can concede to the point of your previous statement.

So when not using the "app" and just using Audyssey is MRC on and we just have no say in it? or does the app introduce MRC and we can control whether it is on or off?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Why is this an immediate turn off? Isn't this dependent on speakers, room, and just about any other variable to be considered? leading to YMMV per these variables?
Ok fair enough. The reason it’s an automatic OFF for me is based on my experience with it, in that I don’t like what it does. It lowers the FR in a critical band, and unless you have a specific measured reason to use it, then don’t. Also, in the countless threads I’ve seen or been in on any forum since the app was released, I don’t ever recall it being beneficial, save for the odd situation.
So, @Reckel. Try MRC and see if you like it...
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I agree to the subjectivity of this but can concede to the point of your previous statement.

So when not using the "app" and just using Audyssey is MRC on and we just have no say in it? or does the app introduce MRC and we can control whether it is on or off?
If you don't use the App you have no say. For more details, see the linked threads below:





 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Also the app set my subs volume up front to -7.5 and my rear one at -6.5. Running audyssey without app it’s sets my front subs at -10 and my rear to -10, should I change their volumes?
He reck...
I’ve never been able to reconcile this either. Can you tell the difference during playback? Have you verified any differences with an spl meter? My thoughts are as long as its consistently inconsistent, then run it and adjust to taste. I wish I could say why it’s like that. Maybe @PENG can clear this up, as in my mind the mic is the same and all the “work” is done in the AVR anyway, and am the app is just for customization.
Or maybe not?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
If I understand correctly, the measuring of LF waves is challenging, thus inconsistent. For example, when starting Audyssey tests, you begin with the Subwoofer SPL screen where you have to try to dial your gain in to about 73dB. Isn't that fun watching the OSD of your Sub SPL jumping all over the place while making that adjustment? :)
I know the Aud mic isn't the best tool in the workshop, but it's a good start.

Getting Audyssey set, with levels and distances is useful. Though I don't have studies to back it up, my XT32 App usage has always seems more consistent from test to test than just using the AVR did. Ultimately, it would be nice to check the timing of delays set by Aud, as this seems to be one of the more misunderstood aspects of dealing with Subwoofer DSP and "Distance" settings. (Consider the general rule of thumb that gets tossed about; that the distance for a Sub could be anywhere from 1/2-again as far to twice the actual distance-to said Sub!)

Some intense critical listening sessions always accompany my playing with Auddyssey. Can I hear a difference? Better/worse? Is that 2K-5K Hz range too bright still? ;) Does the bass sound tight and distinct? (I'm not suggesting I can hear the difference of a msec in delay, but I do know the App dialed in my subs better than just the receiver.)

Regardless, the other comment I wanted to chime in on is the dreaded MRC. I experimented with that early on because my room is pretty bare and those frequencies were definitely strong in my room. I used it On, Off, and even drew in my own version of MRC for a bit using the App. For that, I made the dip shallower and wider: more of a gentle swale only 1.5dB deep rather than a 3dB crater.
I actually found this to be a very pleasing solution to my room for a while until I got better positioning locked in.

Using REW or OmniMic is a definite necessity to take Audyssey to the next level. We've seen time and again the progress friends have made with further dialing in their subs and flattening their FR down below the Schroeder Frequency of their room.

Which brings the last point: setting the Frequency Limit or Curtain for Audyssey correction. When your room transitions from acting as a resonant chamber to more linear performance, that is the Schroeder Frequency. Numbers I've seen tossed about range from 100Hz up to 500Hz. Most commonly, I think it tends to fall between 200-300Hz in most domestic rooms.
I use the before graphs for my Subs and Mains in the Aud App to eyeball the point where the FR starts to naturally even out and set my Curtain there. No need to correct above that point. ;)
This is a simple introduction with links to 2 S&V articles by BB... good read!:
 
B

beyondm3

Audiophyte
Ok fair enough. The reason it’s an automatic OFF for me is based on my experience with it, in that I don’t like what it does. It lowers the FR in a critical band, and unless you have a specific measured reason to use it, then don’t. Also, in the countless threads I’ve seen or been in on any forum since the app was released, I don’t ever recall it being beneficial, save for the odd situation.
So, @Reckel. Try MRC and see if you like it...
Thanks for the reply. I had no intention to bash on your suggestion but to understand as you seemed very unilateral about MRC and was curious of why.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
He reck...
I’ve never been able to reconcile this either. Can you tell the difference during playback? Have you verified any differences with an spl meter? My thoughts are as long as its consistently inconsistent, then run it and adjust to taste. I wish I could say why it’s like that. Maybe @PENG can clear this up, as in my mind the mic is the same and all the “work” is done in the AVR anyway, and am the app is just for customization.
Or maybe not?
I just got up so I have not been able get down there and load results in avr yet to listen. Just didn’t understand why the difference in volume on subs and why my rear ones distance was longer now with app. Wasn’t sure if I should change to what audyssey had set without app. I’ll let you guys know what it sounds like soon as I can get down there
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
If I understand correctly, the measuring of LF waves is challenging, thus inconsistent. For example, when starting Audyssey tests, you begin with the Subwoofer SPL screen where you have to try to dial your gain in to about 73dB. Isn't that fun watching the OSD of your Sub SPL jumping all over the place while making that adjustment? :)
I know the Aud mic isn't the best tool in the workshop, but it's a good start.

Getting Audyssey set, with levels and distances is useful. Though I don't have studies to back it up, my XT32 App usage has always seems more consistent from test to test than just using the AVR did. Ultimately, it would be nice to check the timing of delays set by Aud, as this seems to be one of the more misunderstood aspects of dealing with Subwoofer DSP and "Distance" settings. (Consider the general rule of thumb that gets tossed about; that the distance for a Sub could be anywhere from 1/2-again as far to twice the actual distance-to said Sub!)

Some intense critical listening sessions always accompany my playing with Auddyssey. Can I hear a difference? Better/worse? Is that 2K-5K Hz range too bright still? ;) Does the bass sound tight and distinct? (I'm not suggesting I can hear the difference of a msec in delay, but I do know the App dialed in my subs better than just the receiver.)

Regardless, the other comment I wanted to chime in on is the dreaded MRC. I experimented with that early on because my room is pretty bare and those frequencies were definitely strong in my room. I used it On, Off, and even drew in my own version of MRC for a bit using the App. For that, I made the dip shallower and wider: more of a gentle swale only 1.5dB deep rather than a 3dB crater.
I actually found this to be a very pleasing solution to my room for a while until I got better positioning locked in.

Using REW or OmniMic is a definite necessity to take Audyssey to the next level. We've seen time and again the progress friends have made with further dialing in their subs and flattening their FR down below the Schroeder Frequency of their room.

Which brings the last point: setting the Frequency Limit or Curtain for Audyssey correction. When your room transitions from acting as a resonant chamber to more linear performance, that is the Schroeder Frequency. Numbers I've seen tossed about range from 100Hz up to 500Hz. Most commonly, I think it tends to fall between 200-300Hz in most domestic rooms.
I use the before graphs for my Subs and Mains in the Aud App to eyeball the point where the FR starts to naturally even out and set my Curtain there. No need to correct above that point. ;)
This is a simple introduction with links to 2 S&V articles by BB... good read!:
Nice post man! So for sure that frequency range needs to be adjusted from where audyssey sets it?
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Am I going to hear a noticeable difference with app over just using audyssey without app?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
He reck...
I’ve never been able to reconcile this either. Can you tell the difference during playback? Have you verified any differences with an spl meter? My thoughts are as long as its consistently inconsistent, then run it and adjust to taste. I wish I could say why it’s like that. Maybe @PENG can clear this up, as in my mind the mic is the same and all the “work” is done in the AVR anyway, and am the app is just for customization.
Or maybe not?
In my experience, Apps or not, the levels would likely fluctuate within 0.5 to 1 dB difference every time I ran Audyssey. I believe the two main factors are 1) you may think the mic is in the same location but it never is, unless you run only 1 position just to test repeatability. And 2) the mic was calibrated to a reference, according to Audyssey, but it does not mean its perfect in terms of repeatability.

Other than that, I think the App may do a more accurate job if run on a high quality device, such as the highest smart phone/tablet model, than the AVR that is more limited in processing power so resolution may suffer a little relative to the smart phone/tablet. I do agree with your point about consistently inconsistent, it sounds logical to me.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Nice post man! So for sure that frequency range needs to be adjusted from where audyssey sets it?
It depends on several things, that's why Ryan did the experiment that he did.. If you don't want to play with it, and with REW/Mic, then it may be safer to just set it to 300 Hz, or just try 300, 500, 600, 1,000 Hz and see if you have a preference. With the App you can save a bunch of curves anyway so it won't take too much time to do such simplified experiment. If you ask Audyssey, they will likely tell you to leave it full range, but I think they are naturally biased. Dirac will likely tell you to experiment but also would encourage you to try full range.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
It depends on several things, that's why Ryan did the experiment that he did.. If you don't want to play with it, and with REW/Mic, then it may be safer to just set it to 300 Hz, or just try 300, 500, 600, 1,000 Hz and see if you have a preference. With the App you can save a bunch of curves anyway so it won't take too much time to do such simplified experiment. If you ask Audyssey, they will likely tell you to leave it full range, but I think they are naturally biased. Dirac will likely tell you to experiment but also would encourage you to try full range.
Ok. I watched the video this morning I’m pretty you had linked to me on my 4400 thread with the software designer of audyssey and the other guy with him but I believe the software designer said to keep it where audyssey sets it. I’ll try different adjustments
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
It depends on several things, that's why Ryan did the experiment that he did.. If you don't want to play with it, and with REW/Mic, then it may be safer to just set it to 300 Hz, or just try 300, 500, 600, 1,000 Hz and see if you have a preference. With the App you can save a bunch of curves anyway so it won't take too much time to do such simplified experiment. If you ask Audyssey, they will likely tell you to leave it full range, but I think they are naturally biased. Dirac will likely tell you to experiment but also would encourage you to try full range.
Btw sorry. When I was looking at the frequency range I was just looking at my front left and forgot I needed to select each speaker to see where range was. It set my sub at 250, so I assume I just go up from there and see what I like? Do I need to adjust my other speakers too or just the subs?
 

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