R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Oh cmon man!!! The suspense!!!!!
Lol. JK. Shiit happens. Watch a movie...
I got up to late dude. Trust me I want to get things dialed in. Fricking tired with all the other poop I have going on with kids sports and working ot at work
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
I got up to late dude. Trust me I want to get things dialed in. Fricking tired with all the other poop I have going on with kids sports and working ot at work
I hear you loud n clear. It’s almost midnight, and I’m working on my stoopid fukkin lift gate. Wtf...
Get some rest bro.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
We've mentioned the acoustics before, and the thing about multiple subs in an irregular room is that you have to search for the best placements if you really want the best sound. The standard dogmatic argument for front wall, 1/4-wall, 3/4 wall, corner loading, etc is not always the best.
This is a serious rabbit hole in the middle of a briar patch. ;)

The thing only you can determine is if it sounds good to you and you are happy with it. :)

I'm a music first guy, and dial my rig in so that music sounds great. Personally, I'm happy with my HT experience while trying to keep a flat and accurate response. I also used more of the Geddes Technique in placing my subs... looking for locations where the Subs perform acoustically well and focusing on that rather than insisting they be in a certain spot.

But again... this hits at the very heart of YMMV. Only you can decide if you want to search for better... But better may only be a 1% improvement. Or better may be learning to appreciate a flatter frequency response...

YMMV! :D

You've done a lot of leg work... take more time to enjoy it, and revisit in a week or two if you want to really get dirty with REW.
I tried the geddes approach in the past with my Yamaha but it didn’t seem like it got better or worse from what I remember but I’m guessing I didn’t do something right. I didn’t like how my Yamaha could not independently set two sub distances and maybe that’s why it was not better. I definitely like audyssey and I think in my room at least, it’s definitely improved things.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
If you like how the bass sound now, there is no need to do anything, just enjoy the movies/music. The response you are getting now is excellent, how about you post one with Audyssey Off, then we can see if Audyssey reference did improve it for you, or you just have a good room.;)

I only mentioned using the Audyssey Editor App and Ratbuddyssey to create a smoother response in case you turn anal:D. If you do go anal, and want to try that, you should use Ratbuddyssey to enter the data because try to draw your custom target curve on you smart phone or tablet is tough, a very time consuming process.
You think those graphs are excellent? Well thx but I figured it needed to be flatter? I appreciate the compliment. I thought it looked descent but was concerned about that hump from 25-40hz I believe it is
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Dam, trying to use your finger is a huge pain on the app. I was trying on one of my crappy runs I did. How do I get that ratbudyssey?
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Also when making changes to sub curve, does it tighten the bass, how is the sound effected?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
You think those graphs are excellent? Well thx but I figured it needed to be flatter? I appreciate the compliment. I thought it looked descent but was concerned about that hump from 25-40hz I believe it is
It is excellent to start with, if you do want to flatten it. I don't recall the last time I saw someone posted a nice curve like yours in their first attempt.

It is excellent because as you said, it was a hump, that Audyssey can fix very effectively.

No the hump is from about 22 to 32 Hz, I wouldn't touch anything pass 35 Hz.

It is not a bad thing to have that range somewhat elevated anyway, as long as it is not excessively elevated, even elevated by 5 dB is not an issue because a) there is much content in music that goes that low, b) humans are not too sensitive in such deep base, you can almost feel it more so that hearing it, and c) there are lots of contents in movies that go that low, but for movies, it could be nice to feel the impact as well as hearing such deep bass anyway, but again you can go by ears. If they complain then do something, otherwise just enjoy it.

The suggested cuts in my earlier post were intended to smooth the curve, not so much as to remove the "hump". That is because studies found it sounds better to people if the response is smooth. In your case, I would bet smooth or not, you probably cannot tell a difference, because of reasons I mentioned before. That's why as I said, I only mentioned it because in an earlier post you said you could be "anal".:D

PS: Still would like to see you post an Audyssey on vs Audyssey off curve. If you do that, please show both on the same graph so it cannot compared easily.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
That's actually not too bad, but I'm with the other guys about that hump. When I dial in I go for as flat as possible when DEQ is off, EQ1, 1 port open. Like this.
06-22-20 final fr.jpg


Once I get that, I stop tweaking stuff and flip to EQ2, both ports open. This robs a little from the deepest frequencies, but gives me just a touch more oomph in the audible range. You can see that below with the blue trace. The start of my "house curve".

06-22-20 EQ1 v EQ2.jpg


After that I turn DEQ on, -RLO 10. This gives me a nice smooth curve with a more gradual rise than what you're showing.

06-22-20 house curve.jpg


From there I play with trim levels for my subs. Currently I have a 2 dB bump and that seems to be the sweet spot where I like it best. We're getting into personal preference at this point, but between the RLO settings and sub trim you should be able to find something that sounds good to you. These 2 charts below show the effects of the different RLO settings in both EQ1 and EQ2.

06-22-20 DEQ RLO EQ1.jpg
06-22-20 DEQ RLO EQ2.jpg


There are a few different ways to achieve a house curve, but that's my favored method. For me it's easier to dial it flat, flip a switch, pull a port plug and change a setting for my house curve than building it with REW (or the app editor), but some folks don't like to use DEQ so YMMV, of course. I think what you have now isn't too bad and if you want to make it flat(er) and try what I'm doing it certainly looks doable. Cutting peaks is easier and less invasive than trying to fix nulls. I'd try out PENG's suggestions using ratbuddyssey, see what that gets you and go from there.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Dam, trying to use your finger is a huge pain on the app. I was trying on one of my crappy runs I did. How do I get that ratbudyssey?
Yes, it is! Here's a link to RB.


A bit of a learning curve, but once you get your arms around it it's no big deal.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
It is excellent to start with, if you do want to flatten it. I don't recall the last time I saw someone posted a nice curve like yours in their first attempt.

It is excellent because as you said, it was a hump, that Audyssey can fix very effectively.

No the hump is from about 22 to 32 Hz, I wouldn't touch anything pass 35 Hz.

It is not a bad thing to have that range somewhat elevated anyway, as long as it is not excessively elevated, even elevated by 5 dB is not an issue because a) there is much content in music that goes that low, b) humans are not too sensitive in such deep base, you can almost feel it more so that hearing it, and c) there are lots of contents in movies that go that low, but for movies, it could be nice to feel the impact as well as hearing such deep bass anyway, but again you can go by ears. If they complain then do something, otherwise just enjoy it.

The suggested cuts in my earlier post were intended to smooth the curve, not so much as to remove the "hump". That is because studies found it sounds better to people if the response is smooth. In your case, I would bet smooth or not, you probably cannot tell a difference, because of reasons I mentioned before. That's why as I said, I only mentioned it because in an earlier post you said you could be "anal".:D

PS: Still would like to see you post an Audyssey on vs Audyssey off curve. If you do that, please show both on the same graph so it cannot compared easily.
Yea I do want to smooth it out some. I will do some more runs, I’m hoping that’s today later on this evening. I work nights man and with my kids sports every day pretty much I’m tired all the time. So I worked last night, fell asleep by 8 this morning but I got up at 11, dk why, just woke up, it completely sucks. So I’ll be up couple hours and hopefully go back to bed because I have to go in tonight. So when you see big gaps in hours of me not on here it’s because I’m usually passed out, if you see odd times I’m on here like overnight/early morning it’s because I’m at work or I’ve woke up in middle of night cuz I can’t sleep on a day off. I’ll do my best to get down there today but I’ve got to get a few more hours of sleep besides just three, otherwise I’ll be in rough shape tonight
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
That's actually not too bad, but I'm with the other guys about that hump. When I dial in I go for as flat as possible when DEQ is off, EQ1, 1 port open. Like this.
View attachment 40129

Once I get that, I stop tweaking stuff and flip to EQ2, both ports open. This robs a little from the deepest frequencies, but gives me just a touch more oomph in the audible range. You can see that below with the blue trace. The start of my "house curve".

View attachment 40130

After that I turn DEQ on, -RLO 10. This gives me a nice smooth curve with a more gradual rise than what you're showing.

View attachment 40131

From there I play with trim levels for my subs. Currently I have a 2 dB bump and that seems to be the sweet spot where I like it best. We're getting into personal preference at this point, but between the RLO settings and sub trim you should be able to find something that sounds good to you. These 2 charts below show the effects of the different RLO settings in both EQ1 and EQ2.

View attachment 40132View attachment 40133

There are a few different ways to achieve a house curve, but that's my favored method. For me it's easier to dial it flat, flip a switch, pull a port plug and change a setting for my house curve than building it with REW (or the app editor), but some folks don't like to use DEQ so YMMV, of course. I think what you have now isn't too bad and if you want to make it flat(er) and try what I'm doing it certainly looks doable. Cutting peaks is easier and less invasive than trying to fix nulls. I'd try out PENG's suggestions using ratbuddyssey, see what that gets you and go from there.
Dam man, my graphs are with two ports open eq2 and rlo at 0. I didn’t realize I need to do port plug, and eq1. I’ll hopefully be able to get to that later this evening, just got up from a great three hours of sleep after working last night. I’m hoping to get a few more hours before going down there cuz I’ve got to work tonight
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Dam man, my graphs are with two ports open eq2 and rlo at 0. I didn’t realize I need to do port plug, and eq1. I’ll hopefully be able to get to that later this evening, just got up from a great three hours of sleep after working last night. I’m hoping to get a few more hours before going down there cuz I’ve got to work tonight
EQ1, 1 port open is what HSU recommends when you're room correcting and dialing in for an accurate, or "flat" response. When DEQ is off, Audyssey is also going for as flat and accurate as possible, so that's my goal as a starting point. Once you have that, then you start playing with house curves. My method for that is shown above by changing a couple settings, flipping a switch and pulling a port plug.

I think it's best to start with a flat fr then tweak to taste, and like I said before there's more than one way to get there. You can and will get different suggestions from different folks on what's best and how to do it, and imo there isn't any one "best way". I think the initial goal should be flat ie: "most accurate" tho, then you go from there and tweak to taste.
 
Last edited:
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
EQ1, 1 port open is what HSU recommends when you're room correcting and dialing in for an accurate, or "flat" response. When DEQ is off, Audyssey is also going for as flat and accurate as possible, so that's my goal as a starting point. Once you have that, then you start playing with house curves. My method for that is shown above by changing a couple settings, flipping a switch and pulling a port plug.

I think it's best to start with a flat fr then tweak to taste, and like I said before there's more than one way to get there. You can and will get different suggestions from different folks on what's best and how to do it, and imo there isn't any one "best way". I think the initial goal should be flat ie: "most accurate" tho, then you go from there and tweak to taste.
Yea I knew hsu wanted it one port plugged and eq1 while running audyssey, idk why I didn’t realize that it’s the same with rew to start. Yea I definitely want it flatter than what it is. Like I said, hopefully I can do it later on. Does the bass become tighter when it’s flatter?
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Field Marshall
OK, so weird issue. Wanted to see if anyone here had some thoughts.

When I try to use the app, it's almost as if it doesn't hear my front left speaker. It puts the distance as 0 ft, with 0 db change, and has no filters for it. All the other speakers it makes filters for. It also doesn't allow me to change them from large to small. I was hoping to get it working so I could utilize it for 200Hz or so and under and leave the rest alone.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Yea I knew hsu wanted it one port plugged and eq1 while running audyssey, idk why I didn’t realize that it’s the same with rew to start. Yea I definitely want it flatter than what it is. Like I said, hopefully I can do it later on. Does the bass become tighter when it’s flatter?
The best advice on "tightness" I have found is that more energy at higher frequencies will give you a tighter sound (per Josh Ricci).
That is consistent with my experience. Too much bass makes it sloppy.
A flat in-room response is a very good starting place from which to evaluate increasing or decreasing bass.
Obviously, you are then trading bass for tightness. Finding your optimal trade-off point is personal preference.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Yea I knew hsu wanted it one port plugged and eq1 while running audyssey, idk why I didn’t realize that it’s the same with rew to start. Yea I definitely want it flatter than what it is. Like I said, hopefully I can do it later on. Does the bass become tighter when it’s flatter?
It can definitely seem tighter. But there’s a lot more to it than FR. Having good integration at the XO is probably the first thing.
Flat with a house curve is what most people seem to prefer, as peng mentioned. This is similar to what DEQ does automatically. So if you can get flat, then use Deq after that.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
I did some quick runs just before I left for work but I’ll post pics probably later on this morning when things slow down at work
 

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