V

viseral audio

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
33
#1
I have been brainwashed in setting up front speakers as small if you use subs. lately I set them up as large and sent bass to both front speakers and multiple subs , granted my front speakers are very capable of handling bass, The speakers where getting full signal which the speaker designer intended and the vocals sound fuller all the way down to more even bass. If we are to run multiple subs to even out response then why don't we use all the bass we can get from our front channels as well that's two more sources. just wondered how many out there could benefit from using speakers full range the way they were intended?
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
680 1
#2
The speakers where getting full signal which the speaker designer intended
Which designer?

and the vocals sound fuller all the way down to more even bass.
I'd say there's a problem with your setup.

When you go to a movie theater: do you find that there's a shortage of bass or that the vocals don't sound full?

If we are to run multiple subs to even out response then why don't we use all the bass we can get from our front channels as well that's two more sources.
They are badly placed... badly enough that they can interfere with one another.
They don't (usually) go low enough; so you are un-flattening your response and pushing up upper bass.
You are more likely to drive the amp into clipping.
You are asking more of the bass drivers and thus potentially harming their ability to deliver on higher frequencies.
 
V

viseral audio

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
33
#3
definitive technology, subs in three corners, and flat response doesn't sound best, isn,t that what the bass driver was designed to do cover a range of frequencies within its crossover points. thanks for your input!
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
1,267 9 16
#4
Brainwashed? The majority of speakers require redirection of low frequencies to subs as the mains are not cabaple of full range. With music large can be ok with the right speakers.

By flat responce he is talking an actual room response of the lf.
 
V

viseral audio

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
33
#5
I,m mainly using for music, measuring with rew that's the only way I can get flatter response is to use front large.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
960 1 1
#6
I have been brainwashed in setting up front speakers as small if you use subs. lately I set them up as large and sent bass to both front speakers and multiple subs , granted my front speakers are very capable of handling bass, The speakers where getting full signal which the speaker designer intended and the vocals sound fuller all the way down to more even bass. If we are to run multiple subs to even out response then why don't we use all the bass we can get from our front channels as well that's two more sources. just wondered how many out there could benefit from using speakers full range the way they were intended?
I agree if the towers can reach 30hz with some authority, why not try both ways and pick what sounds best to you. As long as you also have subs getting you to 20hz as well for bass heavy music and movies.

On the other hand, there are tons of “tower” speakers that will do better with a crossover. Many are only capable of 45hz and some even add an artificial bump to try to sound like they have bass. An 80hz crossover usually solves that.
 
K

kini

Audioholic
Ratings
35
#7
I almost always run my towers (Klipsch RF62II) as full range. I've got 2 subs (PC12+ and a SC8000) in a 1600 cubic ft closed off room. At lower volumes which is where most of my listening is done it sounds better. The bass is even more enveloping.

Only time I set them as small is when I'm watching a really bass heavy movie at what I call "movie theater volume" in which case the bass can be a little too much and can seem a little bloated. Otherwise it's always set to large- LFE + main etc..
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
1,267 9 16
#8
I think a lot of the issues revolve around proper setup, which most dont do. It takes time to achieve really good low frequency response. About a decade ago, it was more common place to work on it. Thread upon thread about which EQ to use for subs, which method etc. Seems a lot of younger people just want to plug it in and go.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,045 18 47
#9
When you say you set speakers to large and sent bass to both speakers and subs, you're using some sort of double bass setting to achieve flat response? What avr and settings particularly? What subs and settings? What speakers? I have decent towers at L/R and even at surrounds but find better performance in using subs with a crossover, using four fairly large subs. Brainwashed sounds a bit strong but then don't know how susceptible you are :)
 
V

viseral audio

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
33
#10
def tech bp2000 fronts, yamaharxa3070 set to extra bass to get signal to subs in two channel listening, subs are svspb16 ultra and turbo sound tse118,s . I do mean brainwashed rather jokeingly because that seems to be the norm anymore just to set a crossover at 80hz set everything to small and move on.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,045 18 47
#11
def tech bp2000 fronts, yamaharxa3070 set to extra bass to get signal to subs in two channel listening, subs are svspb16 ultra and turbo sound tse118,s . I do mean brainwashed rather jokeingly because that seems to be the norm anymore just to set a crossover at 80hz set everything to small and move on.
You have measurements for this flat response? Doesn't sound likely that would do it. Those are dipole speakers with powered woofers? The setting to large is only for 2ch listening? How do you have subs setup?
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
960 1 1
#12
With my Yamaha 2060, “extra bass” setting creates a bump in the 50hz or near that. I believe 3070 would be the same.

In my old RXV3300, “bass both” setting didn’t do that.
 
R

Russdawg1

Audioholic
Ratings
77
#13
I have been brainwashed in setting up front speakers as small if you use subs. lately I set them up as large and sent bass to both front speakers and multiple subs , granted my front speakers are very capable of handling bass, The speakers where getting full signal which the speaker designer intended and the vocals sound fuller all the way down to more even bass. If we are to run multiple subs to even out response then why don't we use all the bass we can get from our front channels as well that's two more sources. just wondered how many out there could benefit from using speakers full range the way they were intended?
I’m not too sure what you mean by using speakers full range as they were intended. Because no tower can reach full range efficiently, and I’m sure that DefTech’s engineers did not intend for anyone to play 20hz notes through their towers. Bass modulation kicks in at ULF not to mention no tower is capable of ULF unless it’s something like an Induction Dynamics ID1.15 which has dual 15” subwoofers and at that point it is no longer a tower but a tower with two subwoofers sandwiching it.

I don’t see how vocals become fuller when you have both playing bass, as vocals end at 120hz and I’m sure that adding in extra bass did not enhance anything above 120hz. It has probably muddied and blown the 80hz and down out of proportions to the point it may seem “good sounding” to you.

Not to mention that the optimal placement for subwoofers (bass) is almost never the same spot as the tower sits.

Not to mention you aren’t supposed to use odd numbers of subwoofers. The point of multiple subwoofers is to even out room modes. With 3, actually with two and a third one that’s different, I don’t think you fix any room modes. I don’t think there’s a single speaker manufacturer that says use 3 subwoofers. It’s powers of 2 always. 1, 2, 4, etc.

Lots of things wrong with your conclusions and leaps in logic.

It’s whatever. Audio is subjective so if you enjoy it, who am I to say.

Although making the statement that towers are supposed to be used full range no matter what as the “speaker designers intended” is pushing the line lol.
 
V

viseral audio

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
33
#14
the extra bass setting with front large is the same as front small 80hz, yes have measurements, bp2000,s have pretty decent built in woofers that just give me two more sources of bass to even out, I cannot say exactly what signal goes to sub in extra bass setting but a member of AVS forums measured Yamaha,s extra bass signal assured me front large + extra bass = front small at80hz crossover.
 
V

viseral audio

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
33
#15
I’m not too sure what you mean by using speakers full range as they were intended. Because no tower can reach full range efficiently, and I’m sure that DefTech’s engineers did not intend for anyone to play 20hz notes through their towers. Bass modulation kicks in at ULF not to mention no tower is capable of ULF unless it’s something like an Induction Dynamics ID1.15 which has dual 15” subwoofers and at that point it is no longer a tower but a tower with two subwoofers sandwiching it.

I don’t see how vocals become fuller when you have both playing bass, as vocals end at 120hz and I’m sure that adding in extra bass did not enhance anything above 120hz. It has probably muddied and blown the 80hz and down out of proportions to the point it may seem “good sounding” to you.

Not to mention that the optimal placement for subwoofers (bass) is almost never the same spot as the tower sits.

Not to mention you aren’t supposed to use odd numbers of subwoofers. The point of multiple subwoofers is to even out room modes. With 3, actually with two and a third one that’s different, I don’t think you fix any room modes. I don’t think there’s a single speaker manufacturer that says use 3 subwoofers. It’s powers of 2 always. 1, 2, 4, etc.

Lots of things wrong with your conclusions and leaps in logic.

It’s whatever. Audio is subjective so if you enjoy it, who am I to say.

Although making the statement that towers are supposed to be used full range no matter what as the “speaker designers intended” is pushing the line lol.
When you audition speakers do you listen to them full range or with the bottom clipped?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ratings
7,387 19 6
#16
...the speaker designer intended...just wondered how many out there could benefit from using speakers full range the way they were intended?
The salient reason I always set my speakers to small is to protect my speakers from stressing out. That's what subwoofers are INTENDED for.

Can the 15" woofers in your BP2000 handle as much stress as the external subwoofers?

If you blow the 15" woofers, how will you replace them?

Will the amp inside the BP2000 fail quicker if you stress out the bass more?

Or perhaps you could use the internal subs of the BP2000, but just don't stress them out as much as the external subs. IOW don't send any 20Hz 110dB signals through your BP2000 and/or don't crank up the gain/volume of the subs in the BP2000.

At the end of the day, you should do what's best for you.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,029
#17
BP likes to fudge their specs. There is no way those are infrasonic speakers. Even the newer flagships were 3rd party tested to about 26Hz at around -10dB. That's no better than Monitor Audio(32Hz) or Martin Logans(35Hz) could do when you look at usable bass (iirc). Nobody is going to bash your choice, however I agree with the others... that as a blanket statement, you should not automatically just set your speakers to large. My BMRs can reproduce an unusable 18Hz... but the woofers wouldn't handle that If I was setting them to large and playing a recording of a big organ! I suspect your Def Techs would suffer a similar fate.
As was said before: your ears... Enjoy your system!
And if you have measurements of your system, please share with us so we can be convinced. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,045 18 47
#18
Not to mention you aren’t supposed to use odd numbers of subwoofers. The point of multiple subwoofers is to even out room modes. With 3, actually with two and a third one that’s different, I don’t think you fix any room modes. I don’t think there’s a single speaker manufacturer that says use 3 subwoofers. It’s powers of 2 always. 1, 2, 4, etc.
.
Not a fan of Geddes?
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
960 1 1
#19
The ones with 15in subs with over 400w, might hit pretty low. I still worry the tower cabinet would cause distortion quicker than a real sub cabinet. You might have to dial them way back.
 

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