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panteragstk

panteragstk

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Universal Health Care- the problem of the high cost of health care in the US is due to the insurance companies. THEY collect the premiums, deny coverage and save as much money as they can as a way to make their shareholders happy. Take them out of the equation and rates will be much more reasonable.

The Left and The Right have moved away from the center.
Insurance companies aren't the ONLY reason that our healthcare prices are high. It's hospitals/clinics/doctors that work with insurance on "agreed" pricing for specific procedures that make the price high. Each hospital charges a specific amount for a specific procedure. If you let them know you don't have insurance and are paying out of pocked a lot of them will work with you on pricing and payment plans. They also work with insurance companies to "discount" the price for these procedures. What that basically means that the hospitals have an artificially inflated price for everything and we get charged that price. The insurance steps in and pays it, but at a discount. If we don't have insurance and we don't work with hospitals on pricing or payment plans (assuming they all actually do this) then we get charged insane amounts for things.

This is why tons of people go TO Mexico to have surgeries. Same quality of medical care, but SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper prices. We've let the insurance companies, for-profit hospitals, and pharma companies price us out of our normal ability to afford medical care WITHOUT insurance. Premiums are only going up too.

I pay damn close to $1k per month for my family's insurance (wife doesn't work) and I've considered dropping it for something cheaper, but when we had our last kid, we got a $65k bill from the hospital. Obviously our insurance paid most of it, but how would anyone be able to pay that back in a reasonable amount of time? They can't. Our out of pocket was still $3k. God forbid anything be out of network and that bill would have been $10k or more.

My mother in-law may have to have back and neck surgery and she got a quote for almost $300k. That's nuts.

These companies are making money hand over fist on our need to be healthy and not die of a broken arm. I know people are against socialism and the like, but how are we all OK with this?
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

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The media tend to be liberal, so it's natural for them to be less vulnerable to anything that may be fake but the distortions are often incredible- the media tried very hard to prevent Trump's election and make no mistake- they got Obama elected. Don't tell me I'm racist for writing that, either- he had my ear at the beginning until he started talking about getting things done through redistribution of wealth. No POTUS or Congress has the power to do that, nor should they.

The hard left aren't in power? I beg to differ. We have several in Washington who aren't only Left, they're actually Leftist and that's dangerous. Personally, I would like the extremes from both sides to go and pound sand while the middle gets things done, but that's not going to happen.

What you call 'draconian measures' are, aside from the Mexican tariff threat and additional guards, very similar to what was happening during Obama. The difference is that this year, according to the link, more apprehensions have been made than any time since 2007.

The US has immigration policies- the Left don't want to enforce them.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...ppening-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-in-6-charts/

If you don't think the US is doing something about pollution, look into it- our air, water and land are far cleaner than it was before 1970 and we have more than doubled our population.

You can tax people to oblivion and it won't make all of them comply.

WRT BLM referring to Blacks killed by the Police- if they wouldn't fight, run or carry weapons illegally, far less would die in those situations. Yes, some cops go off the rails and it needs to stop, but if you look at the info about chases, cops killed by felons who are carrying guns and the number whose immediate reaction is to fight, you would be surprised. The first duty of the Police is to ensure safety by taking control of the situation and neutralizing the threat- an unarmed person can still be a threat. In the US, a small segment of 13% of the US population commit about 90% of the murders- how would you address that?

https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed-in-2018-1831469528

WRT White Privilege- that's going to take a lot of work and time to solve.

#MeToo- that's not just an American phenomenon. I refuse to believe that it doesn't happen in other places.

Universal Health Care- the problem of the high cost of health care in the US is due to the insurance companies. THEY collect the premiums, deny coverage and save as much money as they can as a way to make their shareholders happy. Take them out of the equation and rates will be much more reasonable.

The Left and The Right have moved away from the center.
Yes, much of the media tends towards the liberal side of the spectrum, although there's still plenty of conservative leaning media.

Can you tell me what you mean by "hard left"? To me, hard left would be personified by the Maduro regime... just a few steps away from outright communism.

And yes, much of the detention infrastructure was brought in during the Clinton administration, which carried on into the Obama years, no argument. But, detentions have skyrocketed under Trump...and not due to an increase in migrants crossing the border. I certainly don't have an answer to the issue, but I don't think this helps anybody.

I never said the US wasn't doing anything about pollution, but withdrawing from the Paris Accord does not send a good message. And, POTUS just eased coal-fired plant regulations, although that's probably not going to revive coal mining.

I believe the 90% figure you stated actually refers to black-on-black homicides, which is not "90% of the murders". Over 80% of white victims are killed by other whites, so what have we proved...other than the fact that white people kill "brown" people at a higher rate than the reverse. There may be higher crime rates amongst the black populace, but much of that can be traced to the socio-economic circumstances that many black people find themselves in. Make no mistake, there are similar issues in Canada - maybe not to the same degree that you find in the US, but black people have a legitimate beef with us as nations (There is a BLM movement here as well).

I'm not sure what it would be called in the US, but up here there is a police practice called "carding" or street check". It involves officers who randomly stop people and ask questions when they're looking into suspicious activity, gathering general information in the community, or investigating crimes they know or suspect might have happened. It's been controversial for a few years now. A recent study in my area concluded that a black person is 13 times more likely to be stopped than a white person.

Yes, #Metoo is not just an American problem. I didn't mean to imply that it is. I'm a bit confused by this issue. After many years of boys being raised to treat women more respectfully, why is this still a thing? Is it a backlash against womens' rights? Or, are women more willing to report harassment and assaults now? Regardless, I wish men would grow the hell up.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

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T

Trell

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Insurance companies aren't the ONLY reason that our healthcare prices are high. It's hospitals/clinics/doctors that work with insurance on "agreed" pricing for specific procedures that make the price high. Each hospital charges a specific amount for a specific procedure.
...
These companies are making money hand over fist on our need to be healthy and not die of a broken arm. I know people are against socialism and the like, but how are we all OK with this?
All EU member countries have some kind of universal healthcare, whose structure and financing varies, but both the left and the right wants some kind of universal healthcare. Mostly it's only libertarians and other such fringes that is against it and want total privatization.

Over here support for universal health care is not a signal for either left or right leaning political views, though, of course, there are differing views on how to implement universal health care, how much can be private, etc.

I think that US health care is a warning of how not to do it: Very expensive, many people not covered, outcome not commensurate with costs. People are often locked to employer in case new company does not have a health care plan.
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Ninja
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Insurance companies aren't the ONLY reason that our healthcare prices are high. It's hospitals/clinics/doctors that work with insurance on "agreed" pricing for specific procedures that make the price high. Each hospital charges a specific amount for a specific procedure. If you let them know you don't have insurance and are paying out of pocked a lot of them will work with you on pricing and payment plans. They also work with insurance companies to "discount" the price for these procedures. What that basically means that the hospitals have an artificially inflated price for everything and we get charged that price. The insurance steps in and pays it, but at a discount. If we don't have insurance and we don't work with hospitals on pricing or payment plans (assuming they all actually do this) then we get charged insane amounts for things.

This is why tons of people go TO Mexico to have surgeries. Same quality of medical care, but SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper prices. We've let the insurance companies, for-profit hospitals, and pharma companies price us out of our normal ability to afford medical care WITHOUT insurance. Premiums are only going up too.

I pay damn close to $1k per month for my family's insurance (wife doesn't work) and I've considered dropping it for something cheaper, but when we had our last kid, we got a $65k bill from the hospital. Obviously our insurance paid most of it, but how would anyone be able to pay that back in a reasonable amount of time? They can't. Our out of pocket was still $3k. God forbid anything be out of network and that bill would have been $10k or more.

My mother in-law may have to have back and neck surgery and she got a quote for almost $300k. That's nuts.

These companies are making money hand over fist on our need to be healthy and not die of a broken arm. I know people are against socialism and the like, but how are we all OK with this?
You pay $1000/month to cover your family!? That's over CDN$1300!!! That would be wellll over half my annual income tax bill! Then, add co-pays/deductibles to that!?

For all its faults, I certainly wouldn't want to trade our health care system for yours.
 
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nbk13nw

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Same here. Sitting at only $800.00 a month for medical / dental. I had a familt plan for many years and that was running around $1200.00 a month. Once i had a spouse and 2 children on the plan, i could add more children on medical with no increase. But dental would increase slightly

Over the years the premium has increased and benefits have decreased. Last summer after insurance i paid 8K out of pocket. Before they would even schedule surgery i had to pay $1200.00 in cash.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

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You pay $1000/month to cover your family!? That's over CDN$1300!!! That would be wellll over half my annual income tax bill! Then, add co-pays/deductibles to that!?

For all its faults, I certainly wouldn't want to trade our health care system for yours.
Yep, it's crazy. Rates have gone nuts since our current and former presidents decided to "fix" insurance. They did not. At all. I get the point of not wanting to deny people coverage, but when it screws EVERYONE it's not a good plan. Sure, people had insurance, but when it covers next to nothing what's the point?

10 years ago before we had kids my insurance was something like $90/month and was the best plan you could get from UHC. No co pay, didn't pay hardly anything for prescriptions and that was me and my wife being fully covered for medical, dental, vision, etc. Those were the good ole days.

That same plan now would be $1200/month. I know plans vary from company to company, but that's a crazy rate increase in just 10 years.
 
markw

markw

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I'm sorry, but I take anything Breitbart says with a mountain of salt. I'm not saying that everything they publish is false or misleading, but I would fact check any story they post on their website before believing it.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/breitbart/
https://consortiumnews.com/2019/06/...ed-russian-hacking-because-none-was-produced/

ttps://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-16/us-governments-entire-russia-dnc-hacking-narrative-based-redacted-draft-crowdstrike
 
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Trell

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zerohedge as a source? :rolleyes:

We have earlier posted that you should apply some critical thinking about the sources you link to. From reading your posts outside of Steam Vent it seems that you are capable of that, so why not apply that skill even to politics?

Apart from the site ZeroHedge finance views, that are complete bonkers in my view as a Boglehead, it has other credibility issues. An example from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge:

"The 29 April 2017 unmasking article by Bloomberg, quoted former website staffer Colin Lokey as saying: "I can't be a 24-hour cheerleader for Hezbollah, Moscow, Tehran, Beijing, and Trump anymore. It's wrong. Period. I know it gets you views now, but it will kill your brand over the long run. This isn't a revolution. It's a joke." Lokey told Bloomberg that he was pressured to frame issues in a way he felt was "disingenuous," summarizing its political stances as "Russia=good. Obama=idiot. Bashar al-Assad=benevolent leader. John Kerry=dunce. Vladimir Putin=greatest leader in the history of statecraft." On 30 April 2016, the site posted an article describing a difficult relationship with Lokey, and asserting that Lokey was "emotionally unstable, psychologically troubled alcoholic with a drug dealer past, as per his own disclosure", and reproduced various text messages from Lokey to support this claim.[22] It also said that Lokey could write "anything and everything he wanted directly without anyone writing over it." "​
 
markw

markw

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What makes you think I don't apply critical thinking here. Just because you don't like what it says doesn't make it untrue.

You really don't think the main stream media will cover this, do you? Silly wabbit. MSM is for fake news.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

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There is far more "fake news" on the right's propaganda side of things....as you tend to use. The original fake news was describing Fox...

What makes you think I don't apply critical thinking here. Just because you don't like what it says doesn't make it untrue.

You really don't think the main stream media will cover this, do you? Silly wabbit. MSM is for fake news.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

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I consider all facts whether thy support my view or not. I don't automatically dismiss those I don't agree with as fake news.
Then why don't you use publications that rely more on actual fact finding and reporting rather than opinion pieces for the wacko end of the right spectrum?
 
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