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markw

Audioholic Overlord
Yeah sure I am. Dude I work with these people. They believe every single word that comes out of his mouth. They are a cult. I have never seen anything like it, but I wasn't around in Germany in the 30s either.

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If you were around Germany in the 30's, you might realize what the democrats are trying to pull off.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
.....
Obama should have taken it more seriously, but Obama never made public statements that he did not believe it ever happened or that the intelligence agencies were making it up as a partisan smear campaign.
....
McConnell told him to say nothing or else if I heard it correctly. And he would have been blamed for interfering with the election.
A lose lose situation.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
If you were around Germany in the 30's, you might realize what the democrats are trying to pull off.
Really??? You cannot be serious. And what is it they are trying to pull off?
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
If you were around Germany in the 30's, you might realize what the democrats are trying to pull off.
You mean like the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) that voted against the Enabling Act of 1933 that would allow the Chancellor Adolf Hitler to effectively enact laws without the involvement of the Reichstag, and that after the earlier Reichstag Fire Decree by the German President that nullified many civil liberties?

Many, not all, rue that the SPD failed.
 
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bigkrazy155

Audioholic
You mean like the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) that voted against the Enabling Act of 1933 that would allow the Chancellor Adolf Hitler to effectively enact laws without the involvement of the Reichstag, and that after the earlier Reichstag Fire Decree by the German President that nullified many civil liberties?

Many, not all, rue that the SPD failed.
This hits much, much closer to the problems I see in our government. The power of the executive has grown far beyond what I believe the Constitution intended. Trump's use of executive power has largely been to roll back regulations, mainly to increase freedom in certain markets. Nonetheless, executive orders should be curbed in my opinion.
 
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bigkrazy155

Audioholic
I think having a president who has discounted our intelligence agencies and refused to publicly acknowledge that the Russians mounted an attack on our election process and has continuously detracted from the investigation to find out exactly what happened is it's own travesty.
Obama should have taken it more seriously, but Obama never made public statements that he did not believe it ever happened or that the intelligence agencies were making it up as a partisan smear campaign.
Trump has consistently redefined the investigation as a witch-hunt targeting himself when it was initiated as an investigation to better define the extent and nature of the Russian involvement in our elections.
I don't know if this is a result of Trumps narcissistic belief that everything is about himself or if he worried that the Russian involvement could de-legitimatize his winning of the election, but either way the level of dysfunction has prevented us from being as prepared as we should be for the next election.
This is a much more reasoned response, so thanks for that! But even with all that bad rhetoric, there is still not a majority of the public that have bought into the president's lies, as is evidenced by polling data.
I think the best indicator that would speak to your concern was the midterm election. It had a few problems here and there, but was as smooth and successful as any other election in recent history. Faith in the instution of elections seems unshaken from where I sit.
I think the real problem that plagues us more generally is that we don't know how to talk to each other. "You" (not really you) assume that because I disagree with you on policy that I don't want what's best for the country. And "I" (again, not really) assume you must be an idiot for not following my logic on policy prescriptions. This is an area where Trump is hurting us by not leading by example. There is other blame in other offices and news media, but the president should rise above all that in my opinion.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes, and you cannot even get the Trumpster to testify. The greatest memory king cannot remember or forget too much even a a few written questions while not answering most of them. And McConnell, all he cares is about stacking the judges. Wasn't it Roosevelt who was stopped trying to do the same?
He doesn't need to testify unless there's a trial or hearing and he receives a subpoena.

WRT Roosevelt and anyone who did something 70+ years ago, it's fortunate (for the time being) that history has been recorded to whatever extent of accuracy was available/decided on at the time.

As far as stacking judges, both sides want the extra justice in their corner- that's the reason for all of the politicking when it's time to nominate one. At this point, I don't know if it's possible to find a totally unbiased judge or SCOTUS justice. EVERYONE has opinions- it's hard to separate them from what is being considered in a case unless politics just isn't part of the trial.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
But if you really want to talk about a witch hunt that was it. That investigation started over a bad land deal in Arkansas when he was governor of Arkansas. It ended with Ken Starr getting him for perjury over an affair with an adult and they had a informant in the white house. Now that truly is a witch hunt. Bad land deal years before in Arkansas, perjury for an affair with an adult as president.

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Kennedy had affairs while in office and that wasn't OK, but nobody went after him for it. I would prefer that POTUS act more Presidential, regardless of who's in office. Clinton lied, on camera. Doesn't matter what was asked- that's the thing about perjury- it doesn't matter. However, it wasn't the most serious incident a POTUS has been involved with.

The Clintons "couldn't remember" the details of the Whitewater incident and the first thing they did after leaving the White House was write their memoirs. Lawyers document EVERYTHING, but it seems OK to forget or lose track of the documents if the facts might get them into trouble.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I think the real problem that plagues us more generally is that we don't know how to talk to each other. "You" (not really you) assume that because I disagree with you on policy that I don't want what's best for the country. And "I" (again, not really) assume you must be an idiot for not following my logic on policy prescriptions. This is an area where Trump is hurting us by not leading by example. There is other blame in other offices and news media, but the president should rise above all that in my opinion.
My question is, "Should it really be necessary for adults to need a POTUS to lead them in how they interact with others?". I think not- that should have been taught by their parents and in school, where we learn to socialize with people. I blame social media far more- it's very common for people to lose all courtesy and decency when they bicker back & forth with people they have known for their whole lives and people they don't actually know.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
... but he's fixing problems so there's gonna be less of them when he goes.

Simple math ... :D
Maybe. I think we'll just have different problems unless some are ended soon, as in, during this term.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
It's the new thing for republicans to just say they don't recall, can't remember etc even under oath. Just more lies.
Wut? It's not new, for either side. Clintons & Whitewater- they used 'I do not recall' as their mantra before leaving office and writing their memoirs.Members of Congress seem to have it tattoo'd on the inside of their eyelids.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Sheer speculation what was discussed between the two. Makes good conspiracy stuff though.
But lawyers/former lawyer who was POTUS, who met privately during an ongoing investigation into the wife of POTUS? That doesn't even look good on paper.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
Um I unsubscribed to this thread. Why am I still getting notifications for it! I want off this miserable thread.

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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Um I unsubscribed to this thread. Why am I still getting notifications for it! I want off this miserable thread.
It's your pre-punishment for the upcoming pre-impeachment thread soon to be started by @KEW . You're gonna be soooo sorry, sort of the feeling you'll have the last few minutes of the latest Avenger movie where you thought having a couple of pints of beer before the movie was no big deal :p
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
This is a much more reasoned response, so thanks for that! But even with all that bad rhetoric, there is still not a majority of the public that have bought into the president's lies, as is evidenced by polling data.
So, you don't see it as damaging that we have a president willing to lie about core issues of our democracy? The fact that the majority of the population don't believe his lies does not reassure me because he is the one who is making the decisions. If the majority of the population held much sway, he would be gone (with approval ratings currently 35%-37%). I want the guy in charge to be able to call shots without his own ego and short term interests being the primary concern behind those decisions!
I think the best indicator that would speak to your concern was the midterm election. It had a few problems here and there, but was as smooth and successful as any other election in recent history. Faith in the instution of elections seems unshaken from where I sit.
That is an argument, but it seem woefully short of awareness that Putin "plays chess", not checkers; Putin has been around for a long time and will most likely continue to be around for much longer. He is playing a long-term game. Why would he waste significant effort on manipulating the mid-terms? From Putin's perspective everything happening in the US is great! Trump has people questioning the actions of our intelligence agencies as politically unfair. We have people who can play chess with Putin, but they are in the form of career military and intelligence; however, Trump has eliminated their presence in the WH and replaced them with sycophants! The distance between Trump and people who "play chess" has increased quite a bit. The advent of Trump making major military decisions without consulting or valuing opinions of the people who have made it their career to analyze what is going on in the world erodes morale and has led to people of high integrity to resign because they cannot carry out his decisions. The ones who are left have effectively been "demoted" after watching their superiors "wasted" by this administration. When key decisions need to be made quickly, our country is weaker now than it has ever been in my lifetime!
So why would Putin invest any more into the Mid-term elections than enough to lull us into a false sense that we have things under under control and that the Russians don't have any significant cards left to play. Putin's strategy runs deeper than "rock, paper, scissors" and it is a mistake to evaluate his actions in the context of "I showing you exactly what I have"... he is only showing us what he wants us to see.
I think the real problem that plagues us more generally is that we don't know how to talk to each other. "You" (not really you) assume that because I disagree with you on policy that I don't want what's best for the country. And "I" (again, not really) assume you must be an idiot for not following my logic on policy prescriptions. This is an area where Trump is hurting us by not leading by example. There is other blame in other offices and news media, but the president should rise above all that in my opinion.
I agree, Trump coaches everything as "them against us" (or, really "me" in Trumps case). Everything is adversarial. His actions are about dividing and separating people, not unifying!

On the Russia question, I hope you can show me where I am way off-base or simply wrong, but as I see it after they lost the cold war, it became obvious they could not beat us. However, they still wanted to maintain relevance in the world. Putin has a strategy for this and it hinges on the ability to erode the position of stronger countries (and the European Union). Look at where Russia is utilizing the influence they have! They have been in the business of producing immigrants for Europe and now, conspicuously (with their interference in Venezuela),immigrants for the US. He knows this will agitate conflict of humanitarian/religious (do unto others as you would have them do unto you) values and weaken the cohesion of the populations.

PS - references to Putin, of course, refer to Putin and his staff which has the kind of unity of purpose we can only dream of at this point.
 
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