Incorporating MiniDSP With Audyssey XT32

[Andrein]

If you go this route there is even more conversion since those models can only deal with PCM. They cannot accept bitstream data.

Not only that, there is little to no conversion using the 2x4 HD because you are taking the analog out from the receiver and adding peq to it, then it goes to the sub.

I thought minidsp 2x4 hd applies corrections to digital signal. Hence it has dac, which is 24bit btw.

 

[PENG]

Wait... did I just help kick a couple guys down the rabbit hole?

YES!
View attachment 22040

In a couple of weeks we may flood your thread with our plots, just to get even.

 

[lovinthehd]

I thought minidsp 2x4 hd applies corrections to digital signal. Hence it has dac, which is 24bit btw.

It has an adc as well as a dac and it really doesn't matter if there are conversions....

 

[Andrein]

It has an adc as well as a dac and it really doesn't matter if there are conversions....

The issue is that instead of leaving conversion to avr 32bit dac you are now using 24bit dac. With digital only dsp models this does not happen.

 

[ATLAudio]

Actually, the distance, in the form of time delay, is another part besides PEQ which Audyssey does to give a smooth response. I don't know all the specifics, but when you give Audyssey an easier job, it will usually get lower.

 

[Pogre]

Actually, the distance, in the form of time delay, is another part besides PEQ which Audyssey does to give a smooth response. I don't know all the specifics, but when you give Audyssey an easier job, it will usually get lower.

Something I just verified, btw. Thanks for the help.

 

[Pogre]

The issue is that instead of leaving conversion to avr 32bit dac you are now using 24bit dac. With digital only dsp models this does not happen.

I really don't want the next 5 pages to be quibbling about dac's. I worked hard on this and I'm feeling a sense of accomplishment.

 

[ATLAudio]

I really don't want the next 5 pages to be quibbling about dac's. I worked hard on this and I'm feeling a sense of accomplishment.

The components in the MiniDSP are more than adequate and suitable for subwoofer PEQ adjustments.

 

[TheWarrior]

Unless someone has a massive cheat code for the MiniDSP, it only has 2 inputs. If you want to manage your subs and mains on one MiniDSP 2x4 you'll have to run full range out of your AVR, into the MiniDSP, and two channels to an outboard amp, and the other two to your subs.

I'd rather have the dedicated LFE channel.

Also, tweaking your mains should be done with incredible caution. I'd only cut levels and boost nothing. Your subs have all sorts of digital limiters and DSP on them to prevent damage which your towers do not have. As Tom at PSA said, "don't take it as some sort of challenge, but you should be able to tweak all you want without concern."

I would like to give this a go. All my bass issues are in my towers now. If it's not feasible I'm happy going with a 100hz crossover.

Unless someone has a massive cheat code for the MiniDSP, it only has 2 inputs. If you want to manage your subs and mains on one MiniDSP 2x4 you'll have to run full range out of your AVR, into the MiniDSP, and two channels to an outboard amp, and the other two to your subs.

I'd rather have the dedicated LFE channel.

Also, tweaking your mains should be done with incredible caution. I'd only cut levels and boost nothing. Your subs have all sorts of digital limiters and DSP on them to prevent damage which your towers do not have. As Tom at PSA said, "don't take it as some sort of challenge, but you should be able to tweak all you want without concern."

Whoops yeah I've been spending too much time looking at the other minidsp in a box options..... glad it worked out!

 

[Pogre]

Whoops yeah I've been spending too much time looking at the other minidsp in a box options..... glad it worked out!

Me too! Thanks man. I had really good measurements before I did all this, but that was without the towers and doing sub only sweeps. I think you were right in as far as the towers' interaction with my subs. It created some issues that were audible (or NOT audible in my case) and measureable.

Never would I have thought a year ago that I would be using a MiniDSP and posting up graphs of my progress. I had fun learning how to do all this, and it's made even better because I have results. I feel like I bought new equipment!

 

[TheWarrior]

Me too! Thanks man. I had really good measurements before I did all this, but that was without the towers and doing sub only sweeps. I think you were right in as far as the towers' interaction with my subs. It created some issues that were audible (or NOT audible in my case) and measureable.

Never would I have thought a year ago that I would be using a MiniDSP and posting up graphs of my progress. I had fun learning how to do all this, and it's made even better because I have results. I feel like I bought new equipment!

You're a good bit better than me with getting things done. Keep it going! Believe me, there is no shortage of new things to learn. And more performance to extract. Grab Floyd's book and give yourself a flashlight as you tumble down the rabbit hole!

 

[ATLAudio]

Never would I have thought a year ago that I would be using a MiniDSP and posting up graphs of my progress. I had fun learning how to do all this, and it's made even better because I have results. I feel like I bought new equipment!

Now is a good time to become a musicphile, and moviephile. The logical next step which so many here never get to because they always buy the newest gear, or have to try the newest tweak. There's more than a lifetime of gear, and theory you can dig through which will only give you limited improvement (if any) from where you're at right now.

You have a great set up, it's time to enjoy it!

 

[Pogre]

Now is a good time to become a musicphile, and moviephile. The logical next step which so many here never get to because they always buy the newest gear, or have to try the newest tweak. There's more than a lifetime of gear, and theory you can dig through which will only give you limited improvement (if any) from where you're at right now.

You have a great set up, it's time to enjoy it!

Totally. Right now I'm kicked back and listening to some music. Watched Guardians of the Galaxy 2 in 4k last night. I'm really happy with it now. Thanks again for all your help, it was invaluable. I wouldn't have gotten this far without you guiding me.

I knew I was missing something tho. Buck commented when he was here too ("seems like you could use a little more bass"), so I knew I wasn't crazy. I have two 15" subwoofers and was lacking bass somehow. I'm so happy I got to the bottom of it.

 

[KEW]

Did I miss it?
Have you posted a graph overlaying your pre-miniDSP results with Audyssey XT 32 vs your current post-miniDSP plus XT 32 result?
Can you do this with out having to re-run Audyssey, etc? If not, just repost these two graphs in the same post so we can see exactly what improvement your time with miniDSP gained!

 

[Dale Doback]

Every situation is different.

Don't feel so bad. Don't feel like you are cheating the towers and taking away their glory.

When I owned the Salon2, B&W 802D2, Orion 3.2.1, Phil3, I always preferred the subwoofer bass over the bass from the towers. So I always ended up setting all of these towers to SMALL and the XO to 100Hz (or was it 120Hz? ).

But that's me. Everyone is different.

There is a good reason a lot of guys prefer using subwoofers even with full-range towers.

We all know that the bass from towers are no match for the bass from the subwoofers.

And that's why Shady and I often recommend to people to just put dynamic monitors atop subwoofers to create their own modular towers.

Let the Monitors handle the salient treble and midrange; that's their specialty. And let the Subs handle the bass; that's their specialty.

Well, I fought and fought this idea for quite awhile, because, it never made sense to me. Finally, I did what many had suggested and set speakers to 'small' and left the X-Over @ 120hz where MCACC Pro set it and BINGO! Sounds GREAT! I still don't understand it (I'm a stubborn old fart), but, I sure am a happy camper.

 

[Pogre]

Did I miss it?
Have you posted a graph overlaying your pre-miniDSP results with Audyssey XT 32 vs your current post-miniDSP plus XT 32 result?
Can you do this with out having to re-run Audyssey, etc? If not, just repost these two graphs in the same post so we can see exactly what improvement your time with miniDSP gained!

I think this is without the mini? I have a few older sweeps, but I lost a ton of "before" progress one night when I accidentally turned my lappy off before shutting the program down so I didn't get any overlays. I was so pissed.

This is before the mini, after I moved my subs and speakers around a little bit. 1/12 smoothing is applied so it's not quite apples to apples, but you get the idea where it was.

This is the most recent one and where I have it now. This graph is with no smoothing at all. When I get the itch again or get bored I'll do an overlay.

 

[KEW]

Thanks!
Definitely an improvement. Between the smoothing and the difference in scaling of the y-axis it is not as obvious as it will be once you do the overlay!

 

[Andrein]

Sorry, maybe you posted this already. Do you have a graph with minidsp on and Audissey off? Trying to understand why the Audissey is required with minidsp. Cant minidsp be configured the way you get required final result?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Sorry, maybe you posted this already. Do you have a graph with minidsp on and Audissey off? Trying to understand why the Audissey is required with minidsp. Cant minidsp be configured the way you get required final result?

Audyssey is still required mainly for what it does above 200hz.

 

[Andrein]

Audyssey is still required mainly for what it does above 200hz.

You mean if you use minidsp for subs only. Otherwise there would no be need for Audissey?