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moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
lovinthehd said:
Has more to do with what you want to do spl-wise and for eq. Mine can take 1000 watts or so too but I'm happy with 500 or so on each but am not playing at reference levels these days either (each doubling of power is only a 3dB difference keep in mind)...but extra headroom/power for eq can be nice. I did run mine bridged at first, too.



No, the first sub was like my first wood working project (well second, made a little kitchen stand first). Might for the next one, tho.
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What driver do you have?
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
https://solen.ca/products/electronics/subwoofer-amplifiers/spa1000/ May get two of these plates with a minidsp and then with the plates it would save installing connectors to the back of the cabinets. This would give me a bit more power vs crown2002 @ 650.. I do understand the doubling of power will give you an extra 3 db... Do you think it's worth the extra couple hundred? The crown would require me to install connectors to the back of the cabs as well.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
moves said:
https://solen.ca/products/electronics/subwoofer-amplifiers/spa1000/ May get two of these plates with a minidsp and then with the plates it would save installing connectors to the back of the cabinets. This would give me a bit more power vs crown2002 @ 650.. I do understand the doubling of power will give you an extra 3 db... Do you think it's worth the extra couple hundred? The crown would require me to install connectors to the back of the cabs as well.
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Installing a speakon connector I use a spade bit and am done in a sec. Routing out a recess for a plate amp would be much more work....

You could also just get two Crowns? I am not looking at the costs you are, tho. I paid a bit less than $300 each for my four Crown XLS1500s.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
moves said:
Yea but I forgot to mention that I need 2 subs :)


Cool thanks I went back and read it.
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Using 2 subs changes the whole amplification situation. I don't think that 650 watts will be sufficient to drive either of the 2 subs. I think that you would need two XLS 1502 to have adequate power to drive both subs. The slightly less powerful XLS 1502 bridged would output 1550 (instead of 2100w) watts and should be adequate for one sub. You would need a second one for the other driver. In order to EQ the bass with a DSP, you need more power in the sub frequencies.

The situation is that when you bridge two channels together, this would divide the impedance seen by the amp by two if you connect the 2 subs to it. It won't work with a combined sub impedance of 2 ohms. If you connected the subs in series, you would reduce the XLS2002 amp output to 1300 watts only to drive the the 2 subs and you would also lose an additional 3dB because of the series connection.
You definitely need 2 amps to drive 2 UM18 subs.
 
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Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
As for the SPA1000 Sub amp, it seems to be a reliable product and will probably be adequate, but you would also need one for each sub.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Verdinut said:
Using 2 subs changes the whole amplification situation. I don't think that 650 watts will be sufficient to drive either of the 2 subs. I think that you would need two XLS 1502 to have adequate power to drive both subs. The slightly less powerful XLS 1502 bridged would output 1550 (instead of 2100w) watts and should be adequate for one sub. You would need a second one for the other driver. In order to EQ the bass with a DSP, you need more power in the sub frequencies.

The situation is that when you bridge two channels together, this would divide the impedance seen by the amp by two if you connect the 2 subs to it. It won't work with a combined sub impedance of 2 ohms. If you connected the subs in series, you would reduce the XLS2002 amp output to 1300 watts only to drive the the 2 subs and you would also lose an additional 3dB because of the series connection.
You definitely need 2 amps to drive 2 UM18 subs.
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650 watts is quite a bit, to be honest. The UM18 can take a fair bit more, certainly, but the advantage of two subs is not in higher SPL so much as it is a smoother response. And the UM18 will stay well below any distortion or danger level with that kind of power. I would say start with 650 per channel on a bridgable amp, and if you want more SPL, just get another amp and driver the subs on bridged amps.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
shadyJ said:
650 watts is quite a bit, to be honest. The UM18 can take a fair bit more, certainly, but the advantage of two subs is not in higher SPL so much as it is a smoother response. And the UM18 will stay well below any distortion or danger level with that kind of power. I would say start with 650 per channel on a bridgable amp, and if you want more SPL, just get another amp and driver the subs on bridged amps.
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The OP was also considering the Dayton SPA1000 amp. Are you familiar with it? It seems to be reliable but he would need two from the start.

I opted for the more powerful output because the UM18 has a sensivity of only 85dB at 4 ohms and the OP wants to use a DSP to EQ it which could demand even more power if he wants a response down to 20 Hz for instance. We are just debating for a difference of less than 4dB and I accept your argument. :)
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Moves, FWIW the sensitivity of my drivers is higher than yours, too (88.7 dB)
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
hmmm if I need more power for miniDSP then maybe the 2 crown would be a better choice.... more cash but what else is new.... I was looking at Seaton's site and they sell their amps configured for the F18 and the want something like 2400 for 1. but they have 4000 watts of power.... crazy powerful..

Do you think the SPA1000 would be enough headroom considering I want to implement EQ?
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
lovinthehd said:
These are the speakon terminals I use on the cabinets https://www.parts-express.com/neutrik-nl4mpr-speakon-connector-4-pole-round-chassis-mount--092-054, use these for terminating the speaker cables https://www.parts-express.com/neutrik-nl4fx-speakon-spx-series-4-pole-cable-connector--092-190 (plus some right hand angle ones lately).
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Thank you! The plate is more tidy but I also like the high praise for the crown... everyone loves them. I will look into it and read up a bit on bridged and series connections.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
moves said:
Thank you! The plate is more tidy but I also like the high praise for the crown... everyone loves them. I will look into it and read up a bit on bridged and series connections.
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If you decide to purchase the Crowm XLS1502, I think you could try negociating on the price with Studio Economik by telling them that you want two. You might be able to get both for about the price that you would pay for the Dayton SPA1000s.
That would give you more flexibility for the future as well, as these amps cover the full frequency range whereas the SPA is limited to the sub frequencies. Another advantage is that they are slightly more powerful.
 
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moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Verdinut said:
If you decide to purchase the Crowm XLS1502, I think you could try negociating on the price with Studio Economik by telling them that you want two. You might be able to get both for about the price that you would pay for the Dayton SPA1000s.
That would give you more flexibility for the future as well, as these amps cover the full frequency range whereas the SPA is limited to the sub frequencies. Another advantage is that they are slightly more powerful.
Click to expand...
I don't think they sell crown amps though... at least not on their website.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Verdinut said:
Not at all.
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Ah okay... you are suggesting to buy from two different stores! I just assumed that you were talking about Solen.

Do you think the 1502 is enough headroom with the EQ running? I could get the 2002 if it would make a difference... What do you think? I am guessing it's not worth getting the Crown 2002 'cause the difference would not be noticeable.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I only started with the 1500s as was shooting originally just for speaker use myself as well as it was more budget friendly at the time, if I did it later I might well have gone for the 2000 or 2500s.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
lovinthehd said:
That Crown model does not come with the dsp he needs, though, need to step up the Crown ladder to get that. The dsp in the XLS Drive Core series is more about a crossover for pro use of different monitor/bass bin, particularly no eq and no high pass filter low enough for his needs. The dsp in the Behringer is quite good, though fwiw. The Crown XLS amps are what I use, I have several 1500s (mine are first generation, second gen, i.e. xx02, has different appearance, adjustable sensitivity, adjustable panel light, and a trigger of sorts but same amp section and dsp).
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His AVR may have the needed EQ'ing however and he can use a highpass filter on the Crown if he goes for an LLT design (large, low tuned).
 
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