HiFi System Questions/ Buying Advice -- Music Only

[CB22]

Whether you knew he had already bought the BMR's or not, I cannot understand why you would make such emphatic statements about the 705's being superior to the BMR's!
You could not have missed that they were his primary candidate (assuming you scanned the thread before posting), and I know you've been around here long enough to know that the BMR's have a stellar reputation, and since you have experienced Murphy's modification of the Pioneer BS-22, you are aware of what Murphy charged to for his work (not much more than the cost of the components).
So, why is there no doubt in your mind? How are you certain that the BMR's cannot be better than the 705's, equal, or, at least, worthy competition at 40% less than the 705's?
For starters, the BMR's reasonably can be expected to have better bass, given a larger woofer and larger cabinet (the BMR is the speaker he sent to NRC to measure at 32 Hz - 20kHz +/-2db Anechoic). The 705 S2 is spec'ed at 45Hz by B&W.
Weight is no solid indicator of SQ, but the BMR's are 38lb ea. vs the 705 at 20.5lb ea. That is 85% more which is more than the larger cabinet by itself would account for.
Every speaker Murphy sells represents an incredible value - he is not trying to make a living or grow his business - aside from the $50 he donates to the local orchestra, he gives himself a modest pay rate (around minimum wage) for his labor, and depends on word of mouth for his marketing budget (free). He is retired and just happy to share his talent and passion!
B&W has a reputation for a quality product, but no one has ever accused them of not maintaining their profit margins.
I am not trying to convince you that the BMR's are better speakers. I have not heard the 705 S2's; however I am trying to get you to consider that they just might be better speakers. They are very good, and, aside from bass, the RAAL tweeter is an established "world class" tweeter!

CB22,
In case you missed it, one truly amazing stand-out aspect of the BMR speakers is their off-axis performance! I cannot say for certain you will like it (I do), but the red line is on-axis and the green line is a whopping 80 degrees off-axis. As you can see they track within 5dB of each other throughout the frequency range. Likely, any seat you would listen to music from would be less than 30 degrees off-axis (the blue line) which tracks close to within 1 dB! Effectively, there won't be a bad seat in the house! It is somewhat uncanny!

Yes, that was a factor in the decision making even though I'll probably be the only one doing the critical listening. See the results for both the speakers below that Dennis was nice enough to test . The tipping point for me on buying the BMRs was I called old teacher who is a grammy award winning recording engineer and he told me they were "stellar" speakers. So if he says their good, every one here says their good, they must be good!

Lastly, one thing I took away from this thread was electronics. I think it was Phil that said, "By FAR the largest contributor to sound quality, think over 90%, is the speakers (if your source material is good). (Rest 9% is room acoustics issues and 1% electronics)" - I definitely think I've been placing a little too much of an emphasis on this after having originally owned a low end Dennon that made a little hiss all the time.

PS the speakers come in on Thursday so I'll leave an update after I've had some serious listening time with them.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Lastly, one thing I took away from this thread was electronics. I think it was Phil that said, "By FAR the largest contributor to sound quality, think over 90%, is the speakers (if your source material is good). (Rest 9% is room acoustics issues and 1% electronics)"

By FAR the largest contributor to sound quality, think over 90%, is the speakers (if your source material is good). (Rest 9% is room acoustics issues and 1% electronics)

 

[speakerman39]

BSA is absolutely right in that speakers make the biggest impact when improving ones setup. Not exactly sure about the percentages. But, there is no doubt that speakers will change the landscape so to speak faster that anything. Anyone is going to be hard pressed to buy speakers that will best the BMR's. Even those that cost much more.

Not to mention, the Jim Salk cabinets are second to none inmho. That is, lots of speaker AND top-notch cabinets/finish all for only $1800! Dennis knows exactly what he is doing as can be seen here @Audioholics, as well as, many other forums. That has to say something for the man. Furthermore, we are all very lucky that Dennis is always there to correct us when we fall a bit short all things audio. Hence, lots can be learned from him-all for free if you pay close attention!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[KEW]

The tipping point for me on buying the BMRs was I called old teacher who is a grammy award winning recording engineer and he told me they were "stellar" speakers. So if he says their good, every one here says their good, they must be good!

Lastly, one thing I took away from this thread was electronics. I think it was Phil that said, "By FAR the largest contributor to sound quality, think over 90%, is the speakers (if your source material is good). (Rest 9% is room acoustics issues and 1% electronics)" - I definitely think I've been placing a little too much of an emphasis on this after having originally owned a low end Dennon that made a little hiss all the time.

Cool! I'm a little surprised your old teacher knew anything about the BMR's!
Dennis is pretty much a one man show, and with word of mouth as his marketing/sales force, I would assume his customers are mostly limited to online forums. I wonder if the BMR's have much presence among pro audio forums/circles?

Do I follow that you are setting these up in the same room as the Klipsch RP-280f and switching to zone 2 to listen to music on the BMR's?
That will be a very nice setup, indeed! For HT, I love the Klipsch for the way they raise the hair on the back of my neck with immediacy when the sh!t hits the fan (in a suspense scene). I have the older RF-82 ii's which are not bad, but still a readily apparent compromise for acoustic music, coming in a little too "vivid" (which is not bad for Electric/Rock).
I am a fan of the new Klipsch RP series, which greatly reduced the "horn effect"!
But the BMR's just do a wonderful job of capturing the delicacy of each instrument in a string quartet like nothing else I have heard (aside from Murphy's Phil3's).

Looking forward to hearing your impressions. If you use the RP-280F (or any speaker) for comparisons, be sure to level match, as the louder speaker will have an unfair advantage (we generally will perceive louder as clearer... unless it is riddled with distortion or something).

Edit: BTW, the Cherry finish is very nice IMHO!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

LOL. Can't argue with that one bit.

But seriously, measurements here are for academic discussion only. I was just curious if anyone has measurements directly from B&W.

I thought perhaps B&W's own measurement facility might show a flatter on-axis or smoother off-axis.

Or perhaps not. What truly matters, as we all know, is how we like the speakers subjectively.

If it sounds good, then it is good.

 

[<eargiant]

Whether you knew he had already bought the BMR's or not, I cannot understand why you would make such emphatic statements about the 705's being superior to the BMR's!

Please re-read all my posts in this thread. When did I ever say that?

I was simply answering the OPs question which was "What bookshelf or floor standing speakers are out there for under 2.5k that you'd recommend for a music only set up?" I only recommend speakers I have actually auditioned so I will stick to my response. I have never heard the BMRs or for that matter tons of other quality speakers in the sub $2.5k range. That doesn't change the fact that the 705S2 are what I would recommend based on what I have heard. What are we supposed to say, 'I don't have first hand experience with every speaker mentioned here so I can't comment, I have not formed an opinion thus far in my listening travels?'

Is it so terrible to say that if I was going to spend up to $2.5K on a speaker that I would not hesitate to buy the 705S2? Especially since this recommendation is actually based on having heard them and currently owning their siblings the CM5 & 805D2.

At the end of the day it's just an opinion based on personal experience, nothing more.

You could not have missed that they were his primary candidate (assuming you scanned the thread before posting), and I know you've been around here long enough to know that the BMR's have a stellar reputation, and since you have experienced Murphy's modification of the Pioneer BS-22, you are aware of what Murphy charged to for his work (not much more than the cost of the components).

As I already said I missed the fact that the OP had already ordered them. My bad, had I seen that I would not have made any further recommendations. When I read the OPs question the first thought that came to my mind was the 705S2. I scanned the thread (albeit poorly) and saw that nobody had yet mentioned them.

Yes, I have owned both versions the AA Monitors but everything you stated, while true, has nothing to do with my recommendation to the OP. I did not opine on the BMR because I haven't heard them yet.

I get what you're saying but are we not supposed to recommend speakers to someone on a thread because someone else has recommended another good speaker? Will speaker recommendations threads have to come to a standstill if anyone recommends any of Dennis' speakers?

So, why is there no doubt in your mind?

Because there isn't. Sticking to the OPs max price limit the 705s are the speakers I would purchase based on what I have auditioned.

How are you certain that the BMR's cannot be better than the 705's, equal, or, at least, worthy competition at 40% less than the 705's?

I'm not certain, and again, I never said that. Thousands of OPs out there in scores of forums ask for opinions. Usually people give opinions based on the OPs parameters on gear that they have actually auditioned. So again, not sure why you're taking offense to my sub- $2.5K speaker recommendation.

For starters, the BMR's reasonably can be expected to have better bass, given a larger woofer and larger cabinet (the BMR is the speaker he sent to NRC to measure at 32 Hz - 20kHz +/-2db Anechoic). The 705 S2 is spec'ed at 45Hz by B&W.

More bass output does not mean a speaker will sound better all around. I owned the Polk LSiM 703, another large heavy 3-way stand-mount that was measured by NRC. They had tremendous low end umph for a stand-mount and while I liked many things about them, they are no longer here. I usually keep the speakers I feel have the best overall sound. While the LSiMs did a lot right, they were outperformed by my lighter 2-way stand-mount speakers.

Again, I'm not commenting on the BMRs which I have not heard but only on your reference to the bass output of a speaker.

Weight is no solid indicator of SQ, but the BMR's are 38lb ea. vs the 705 at 20.5lb ea. That is 85% more which is more than the larger cabinet by itself would account for.

You're right, "weight is no solid indicator". My Polk LSiM 703s weighed about 30lbs each and my Bowers & Wilkins 805D2s weigh about 26lbs and the 805D2s slay the Polk LSiM 703s. Believe me, I'm a fan of the LSiMs, I enjoyed them for 2 years before I moved them on. IMO they were simply outclassed.

Every speaker Murphy sells represents an incredible value - he is not trying to make a living or grow his business - aside from the $50 he donates to the local orchestra, he gives himself a modest pay rate (around minimum wage) for his labor, and depends on word of mouth for his marketing budget (free). He is retired and just happy to share his talent and passion!
B&W has a reputation for a quality product, but no one has ever accused them of not maintaining their profit margins.
I am not trying to convince you that the BMR's are better speakers. I have not heard the 705 S2's; however I am trying to get you to consider that they just might be better speakers. They are very good, and, aside from bass, the RAAL tweeter is an established "world class" tweeter!

Yes, Dennis is a good and talented guy that does this for the love of it - and I hope he didn't take my recommendation of a speaker I've heard over one of his that I haven't as a slight as you seem to have.

As for his BMRs I'll actually have a valid opinion if I get a pair in here. Until then, my reply to the OPs question stands because as I said I can only recommend or comment on speakers that I have actually auditioned.

My suggestion to the OP should not be viewed as a knock to Philharmonic BMRs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As I already said I missed the fact that the OP had already ordered them. My bad, had I seen that I would not have made any further recommendations.

I think it's perfectly fine to make your personal recommendations after the OP already placed the order.

I think the OP will like the speakers he ordered. But there is no guarantee.

There are many reasons why people sell their speakers after owning them for a while too.

The OP may one day want to experiment with other speakers. A lot of people do.

Anyone who knows me for a while here knows that I never really had much fondness for B&W.

Before I bought the B&W 802 D2 (brand new from my local dealer), I've said numerous times on this forum about how I was never impressed with the B&W sound and how they sounded like any other speakers I've heard (at stores and dealers) that cost a lot less.

But after auditioning them enough times, I finally caved in and bought them anyway (I loved the way those 802D2 looked), which I'm sure many people thought I was insane and/or stupid or senseless (or another adjective).

When I sold my 802D2 (for $2K less than I paid for them) 1 year later, I was very relieved.

Well, okay, I'm always relieved after I sell anything because money in my pocket always makes me feel good.

So I was also relieved when I sold my 3 pairs of the KEF 201/2, my pair of Revel Salon2, Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1, Philharmonic 3, and other speakers (ATC, TAD, Dynaudio, Focal).

What the hells is my point anyway?

Oh, yeah, the point is, a lot of guys want to experiment with different speakers. So there is no harm in making your recommendations.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Speaking of B&W speakers, I used to own the 801 Matrix Series II. I loved them.

 

[yepimonfire]

Edit: Didn't read the whole thread like a dumbass.

 

[CB22]

Cool! I'm a little surprised your old teacher knew anything about the BMR's!
Dennis is pretty much a one man show, and with word of mouth as his marketing/sales force, I would assume his customers are mostly limited to online forums. I wonder if the BMR's have much presence among pro audio forums/circles?

Do I follow that you are setting these up in the same room as the Klipsch RP-280f and switching to zone 2 to listen to music on the BMR's?
That will be a very nice setup, indeed! For HT, I love the Klipsch for the way they raise the hair on the back of my neck with immediacy when the sh!t hits the fan (in a suspense scene). I have the older RF-82 ii's which are not bad, but still a readily apparent compromise for acoustic music, coming in a little too "vivid" (which is not bad for Electric/Rock).
I am a fan of the new Klipsch RP series, which greatly reduced the "horn effect"!
But the BMR's just do a wonderful job of capturing the delicacy of each instrument in a string quartet like nothing else I have heard (aside from Murphy's Phil3's).

Looking forward to hearing your impressions. If you use the RP-280F (or any speaker) for comparisons, be sure to level match, as the louder speaker will have an unfair advantage (we generally will perceive louder as clearer... unless it is riddled with distortion or something).

Edit: BTW, the Cherry finish is very nice IMHO!

Do I follow that you are setting these up in the same room as the Klipsch RP-280f and switching to zone 2 to listen to music on the BMR's? Probably for the first couple months yes. Later on I may move the HT in to a different room. Looking forward to comparing and contrasting the Klipsch and the BMRs.

Once the BMR's get in the sound system will be complete (for now). But I'm sure as all of you know it's a never ending rabbit hole of "what's the next upgrade!!" Once these get put in the system I'll have eight speakers in my house lol.

 

[TechHDS]

I believe he already ordered the Philharmonic BMR speakers with the 2-week in-home trial (buyer is responsible for shipping charges both ways)

Objectively, the Philharmonic speakers will have better on-axis and off-axis speaker measurements than the B&W 805D3.

But we'll see how the BMRs fare in the subjective listening test.

I personally prefer the sound of speakers that have very good on-axis and off-axis, but everyone is different.

The B&W 805D3 and B&W 705S2 would probably have more prestige, which might add to the subjective listening test.

@ADTG, How sure are you OP, ordered speaker's? I didn't go over the whole Thread. From what I have read the male/ female seems to be at a lost somewhat. You and a few other's seem to be at a turn point of what the OP is really trying to convey in the thread. Maybe I'm missing something about the OP intentions of what the OP is looking to do with what OP has now? I just read a other thread or post on how he/she can't even figure out downing music files with his/hers IPHONE, PC. But yet can't figure on the use of an open file? am I missing something here? Nothing of the OP's post are making since, OP hasn't posted up anything as of photos of gear other than saying, those are, pretty, shot an email, that's my intentions, and so forth. I think you guys are being 'fire trapped' could be wrong. ADTG, check your fire, check your fire. Just looking out for ya man. It's a new profile opened a few months back about a dozen post and nothing else with no hard content.

 

[KEW]

How sure are you OP, ordered speaker's?

Yep, thats the plan. I actually just finished running two new wires today. I pulled the trigger on the BMR's - the standard cabinet in cherry. I'm sure I will like them but just in case I saw they had a two week home trail period.

 

[TechHDS]

Okay, when pics are posted up, then. till then it's the internet and I could say I just ordered a pair of Legacy speakers the 30,g pair. Just saying.

 

[TechHDS]

Speaking of B&W speakers, I used to own the 801 Matrix Series II. I loved them.

Reminds me of that robot on Lost in Space. Danger Will Robinson. . The lil thingy on top does it blink when he gets mad?. really though, a full set of those 5.2 or more surround with two 12" subs. Does have a cool-nest look.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Okay, when pics are posted up, then. till then it's the internet and I could say I just ordered a pair of Legacy speakers the 30,g pair. Just saying.

Oh, yeah, 30K Legacy speakers?

Still dreaming, huh?

Working overtime?

I used to work a lot of overtime about 22 years ago - whenever I wanted to buy new toys and I didn't want to feel so guilty.

 

[lovinthehd]

Once the BMR's get in the sound system will be complete (for now). But I'm sure as all of you know it's a never ending rabbit hole of "what's the next upgrade!!" Once these get put in the system I'll have eight speakers in my house lol.

LOL I have more subs than that. Last count of speakers in use, outside of subs, is 25.

ps meant to throw this in

 

[CB22]

"Fire Trapped" lol... LOVE THE VERBIAGE!!! I think I'm gonna return the BMRs and just buy the 30k of Legacy speakers. JK BMRs are awesome. Heart warming. Haven't had had a chance to do an critical listening yet as I just em set up. In regards to the NAS thread I'm trying to find a workaround without paying for Tidal or buying a high-res streaming player because I have more digital music than CDs. + I like my playlists.

@TechHDS - just curious, why did you sell 801 Matrix series? Those look like some bad ass speakers. The name is Chris by the way.

Here's some pics of my setup:

 

[KEW]

Okay, when pics are posted up, then. till then it's the internet and I could say I just ordered a pair of Legacy speakers the 30,g pair. Just saying.

Skeptical much?

BTW, thought I'd share this pic of my new $600,000 Magico Ultimate III's!

I'm a little worried that I need to find a grill for the woofers so the cat doesn't tear them up.


In the meantime, my wife is under strict orders not to let the cat run free:

 

[TechHDS]

Skeptical much?

BTW, thought I'd share this pic of my new $600,000 Magico Ultimate III's!

I'm a little worried that I need to find a grill for the woofers so the cat doesn't tear them up.


In the meantime, my wife is under strict orders not to let the cat run free:

Umm...okay..your Not in the photo! and if that's your wife? why you need speaker's like that?. .You got some Nice toys!. I just shot you an email. About the XPA-5. Respond if you like

 

[TechHDS]

"Fire Trapped" lol... LOVE THE VERBIAGE!!! I think I'm gonna return the BMRs and just buy the 30k of Legacy speakers. JK BMRs are awesome. Heart warming. Haven't had had a chance to do an critical listening yet as I just em set up. In regards to the NAS thread I'm trying to find a workaround without paying for Tidal or buying a high-res streaming player because I have more digital music than CDs. + I like my playlists.

@TechHDS - just curious, why did you sell 801 Matrix series? Those look like some bad ass speakers. The name is Chris by the way.

Here's some pics of my setup:

Sweet, well I be dang!. You got some nice toys to! Anyways Nothing against you, on the internet ya just never know hope you understand. The Fire thing is from that movie 'Platoon'. Staff Sergeant Bonds, voice, check your fire, check your fire!. Never had those 801's wish I had though. They do look cool man, probably sound better than cool too.

Mike