Have you ever just "lost it"?

Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
shokhead said:
I knew you would reply.
Lots of different things to belive in and its ok to belive in any of them. I think its great some like the church and belive in that. Its not for everyone and thats ok.
Is it really okay? Not everyone would agree with that:

http://www.ethicsofbelief.com/
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
The Dukester said:
OK, fellows, here's my take once again. I am not avoiding anyone, just have to work for a living. Part of that sin payment for Adam and Eve blowing it in the garden.
Some religions and even worse, some people that are supposed to be Christians do indeed not like anyone that does not believe the way they do. I do not hate or overly dislike them and try to love them, even though it's tough. I could never love or even like some people unless Christ in me helps me to. The difference, once again, in real Christianity and other religions is relationship. Just as one that has not met someone (or at least talked to them such as on the internet, writing, etc.) can know them, an unbeliever cannot know Christ. The Bible plainly states that to the world, Christianity is foolishness. If I were a pagan looking at us I would say the same thing.
How foolish would it look for the US armed forces to take only a handful of troops out of the ranks, go to the enemy's stronghold, march around it each day and on the seventh shout with a loud voice after the trumpets blasted and expect the wall to come down and us win the battle? Exactly what God told Joshua to do at Jericho and it worked.
Christianity is all about faith. Works without faith is dead. I know it sounds strange to unbelievers, but "I know in whom I have believed and am pursuaded". Again, it's hard to believe in something you have not experienced for yourself. It may be a poor analogy, but I personally don't put much stock in speaker break-in. I have had a few sets of speakers and have not experienced break-in improving the sound. Others have and for them you could never convince otherwise. I have experienced a true, living God and nobody will ever convince me He does not exist. I talk to him and he speaks to me.
There are more witnesses to the fact that Jesus lived, died and was raised to life than there are that many other people in history even lived.

Actually, the "witnesses" are but 4: the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and, according to most Christian scholars, they were written long after the events they describe. Plus, they contradict each other in the details of this (as well as in other ways). See:

http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1992/2/2maze92.html

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/paul_carlson/nt_contradictions.htm

The Dukester said:
I like science also. Science more often proves the Bible than disproves it.

No.


The Dukester said:
Also it seems every few years a piece of history is discovered that proves the Bible again and again.
As far as even believers agreeing to disagree, well, that's OK by me on many things. There are some core things that are key to the Christian faith that cannot be denied if you are to be a true Christian, but some things are just plain not that clear. This is also where faith plays a key part. Only God know all things. I would not want to believe in a God that did not know everything. What kind of God would that be? Also, I would not agree that living a good life "just in case" is good choice. For one, living a good life will only get you a nice funeral where the people eulogize and maybe a good citizen award to put in your casket; not into Heaven. For twozies, if I believed this life was all you get, the heck with everthing and everyone else, I'm going to eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die!

So, the ONLY reason you care about others is because you believe that God will punish you if you don't? What does that say about you?


The Dukester said:
Fortunately, I don't have to worry about the future, for I know who holds the future in his hands. You know, all you rebels out there should really consider Christianity. Jesus was sort of the ultimate rebel; and talk about dangerous! How do you deal with someone that is not afraid to die? You can't threaten a true Christian with death, because they are sure of their future and are actually looking forward to death. This world is not my home, just an appartment for awhile. My true home is a mansioin in Glory. Do I have a death wish? Absolutely not! I can't wait to see the next big sound processing development and HD2 TVs. All kidding aside, I hope to live to be 100 and in good health, but if I die tomorrow, I'm ready. I hope many of you are also and the offer to send a book out for free still stands for anyone that is truly intrested
Best wishes to all.
Duke

Hope you feel the Love!!!

Really, I think your discussion would fit in well at:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
mulester7 said:
.....I do not believe any person is "born" a homosexual....I believe it is a "choosing", with the initial allure made excitable by the concept of stolen apples, or that which is wrong and unnatural....I believe too many times it is an experience from early childhood, and is the first sexual experience.....therefore, that first sexual experience is likened to the opening of Pandora's Box of awareness....parents, please be especially careful to monitor your small children's activities, and be especially careful who you entrust your small children to for baby-sitting....
It is a matter of choice if you are bisexual.
 
shokhead

shokhead

Audioholic General
Pyrrho said:
Is it really okay? Not everyone would agree with that:

http://www.ethicsofbelief.com/
Oh i forgot about the good church goers that want to recruit me to church. More body's,more money er offerings. Except for giving up my money, anything i could do at a church,i can do at home,or anywhere for that matter. Its not our way or you go to hell although you get ALOT of that, more in the last few years from good christians. I wonder if i'm gay,go to church,belive in god and follow his word and of course give my offerings,where might i end up when i die?
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
shokhead said:
Oh i forgot about the good church goers that want to recruit me to church. More body's,more money er offerings. Except for giving up my money, anything i could do at a church,i can do at home,or anywhere for that matter. Its not our way or you go to hell although you get ALOT of that, more in the last few years from good christians. I wonder if i'm gay,go to church,belive in god and follow his word and of course give my offerings,where might i end up when i die?
You obviously did not read what is at the link. Here it is again:

http://www.ethicsofbelief.com/

A very brief version of the argument there is this: What you believe affects your actions, and your actions affect others. Therefore, you owe it to others to be careful about what you believe, as it affects them. Therefore, you should believe things in proportion to the evidence that you have. In other words, it is an argument saying that faith (i.e., belief without evidence) is immoral, contrary to what many people believe. (That is more or less what Clifford and Burger say, though James disagrees.)

If you are interested in this topic, I recommend reading the book at the link above (or ordering a copy in print if you prefer).
 
shokhead

shokhead

Audioholic General
Pyrrho said:
You obviously did not read what is at the link. Here it is again:

http://www.ethicsofbelief.com/

A very brief version of the argument there is this: What you believe affects your actions, and your actions affect others. Therefore, you owe it to others to be careful about what you believe, as it affects them. Therefore, you should believe things in proportion to the evidence that you have. In other words, it is an argument saying that faith (i.e., belief without evidence) is immoral, contrary to what many people believe. (That is more or less what Clifford and Burger say, though James disagrees.)

If you are interested in this topic, I recommend reading the book at the link above (or ordering a copy in print if you prefer).
Not interested at all,thanks.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Pyrrho said:
You obviously did not read what is at the link. Here it is again:

http://www.ethicsofbelief.com/

A very brief version of the argument there is this: What you believe affects your actions, and your actions affect others. Therefore, you owe it to others to be careful about what you believe, as it affects them. Therefore, you should believe things in proportion to the evidence that you have. In other words, it is an argument saying that faith (i.e., belief without evidence) is immoral, contrary to what many people believe. (That is more or less what Clifford and Burger say, though James disagrees.)

If you are interested in this topic, I recommend reading the book at the link above (or ordering a copy in print if you prefer).

So what your saying is that we can only believe it if its not offensive to others? No way. Ok, I will believe things in proportion to the evidence that I have. Well, there is no evidence that the Lord exists, thusly, I won't believe. Not everyone gets along. Period. People should not go againt there will, inorder to keep others happy. Not only that, but who is the most inportant to please? Theres more then 2 people on this planet.


as Super Intendent Chalmers once said "God? God?! GOD HAS NO PLACE IN THESE WALLS" :p good old simpsons.



sheep
 
ironlung

ironlung

Banned
Sheep said:
So what your saying is that we can only believe it if its not offensive to others? No way. Ok, I will believe things in proportion to the evidence that I have. Well, there is no evidence that the Lord exists, thusly, I won't believe. Not everyone gets along. Period. People should not go againt there will, inorder to keep others happy. Not only that, but who is the most inportant to please? Theres more then 2 people on this planet.


as Super Intendent Chalmers once said "God? God?! GOD HAS NO PLACE IN THESE WALLS" :p good old simpsons.



sheep

My favorite Homer quote "But I don't even believe in Jebus." :)
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Sheep said:
So what your saying is that we can only believe it if its not offensive to others?

Where did you get that idea? The argument is in favor of believing according to what EVIDENCE there is, which has nothing to do with whether or not the ideas offend anyone.


Sheep said:
No way. Ok, I will believe things in proportion to the evidence that I have. Well, there is no evidence that the Lord exists, thusly, I won't believe.

If there is no evidence that there is a god, then that would be the conclusion that Clifford and Burger advocate. But if the evidence favors belief in a god, then they advocate belief in that god. It is all a question of following the evidence, not simply believing what one wants to believe or finds comforting.

What people typically believe now, in matters of religion, is basically whatever they were told when they were young and impressionable. This is why there is so much differing opinion in the world regarding what one should believe, as nearly everyone simply advocates their own personal prejudices rather than a careful examination of whatever evidence might be available. (Of course, I do not mean to suggest that there would be universal agreement if everyone tried to believe according to the evidence, but I think there would be less religious strife if everyone did.)

Of course, what Clifford and Burger are advocating goes directly against the teachings of some religions, as some religions advocate belief in their doctrine, regardless of whether their doctrine has any evidence to support it, or even makes any sense at all.


Sheep said:
Not everyone gets along. Period. People should not go againt there will, inorder to keep others happy. Not only that, but who is the most inportant to please? Theres more then 2 people on this planet.


as Super Intendent Chalmers once said "God? God?! GOD HAS NO PLACE IN THESE WALLS" :p good old simpsons.



sheep
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
Sheep said:
...there is no evidence that the Lord exists...
Sure there is. And here is a very clever experiment that will prove it:

First, close your eyes. No! Not now! You need to read the rest of my instructions first! Now, slowwwwly open your eyes. What do you see? Whatever it is, it's proof of His existence! ;)

Pyrrho said:
...some religions advocate belief in their doctrine, regardless of whether their doctrine has any evidence to support it...
I wouldn't have thought any religion advocated the questioning of it's God.

Regards
 
shokhead

shokhead

Audioholic General
I closed my eyes and when i opened them i saw 1000's suffering in NO. I also saw people with thinking minds to make rights and wrongs.
 
shokhead

shokhead

Audioholic General
I said people,that means people,geez. Never said this class or another,just people. Your starting to sound like,its the faith's way or no way. Did you come to my door yesterday? You sound like type of person that would keep me from wanting to go to church,the exact kind. Either think THIS way or your wrong. Now that pisses me off.
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ok, lets step back a moment shall we? Here is your entire quote:

shokhead said:
I closed my eyes and when i opened them i saw 1000's suffering in NO. I also saw people with thinking minds to make rights and wrongs.
In the context of what you wrote, one does not have to be paranoid to jump to the conclusion that you consider those with faith as being without thinking minds. However, since you have qualified that that is not what you meant, I stand corrected.

shokhead said:
You sound like type of person that would keep me from wanting to go to church, the exact kind. Either think THIS way or your wrong.
Not at all. You are as free to think what you will as I am. I didn't know that you wanted to go to church. You should've just said. ;)

Regards
 
ironlung

ironlung

Banned
The only way!!

shokhead said:
Either think THIS way or your wrong.

This is the way it has to be for a believer. As soon as reason and healthy skepticism enter their mind religion falls apart pretty quick. It's what happened to me.

As I said in a previous post on this thread. I plan on being as aware as I was before I was conceived after I'm dead.

Buckle how aware were you before you were born(conceived)? I imagine death feels similar.

The only reasonable reason I have heard for believing is "It makes me feel better". I agree it is painful to admit that this life could be all you get.

Heaven or hell starts with the sperm lottery and goes on to whatever you make of your short journey.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
ironlung said:
Heaven or hell starts with the sperm lottery and goes on to whatever you make of your short journey.
...or as Ronnie James Dio (Dio, Black Sabbath, Rainbow) put it: Heaven and Hell are both right here on earth. It's about how we treat each other as we live our lives.

Fairly sane comment from an aging Heavy Metal artist whose lyrics are all about rainbows and serpents and heaven and hell.
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
ironlung said:
This is the way it has to be for a believer. As soon as reason and healthy skepticism enter their mind religion falls apart pretty quick. It's what happened to me.
I knew it! Didn't I say it?! Huh?! Huh?! A closet Christian! ;)

ironlung said:
I plan on being as aware as I was before I was conceived after I'm dead.
You cannot 'plan' any such thing. You must know this.

ironlung said:
Buckle how aware were you before you were born(conceived)? I imagine death feels similar.
Yet you cannot know for sure. I do not see the relevance of your question. Can you elaborate please?

ironlung said:
The only reasonable reason I have heard for believing is "It makes me feel better". I agree it is painful to admit that this life could be all you get.
You are using logic. Do you seriously believe that people believe in God to make themselves feel better? Firstly, if they did, I'm sure we are all aware that this would not grant them entry through heaven's gates. And secondly, to think in such a manner is indicative only of selfishness. Nothing more.

ironlung said:
Heaven or hell starts with the sperm lottery and goes on to whatever you make of your short journey.
You state as if there is only one absolute answer, yet you must admit that Christians see things from a different perspective. To a Christian, a child is God's gift to a couple.

Regards
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
Buckle-meister said:
To a Christian, a child is God's gift to a couple.
I read a short book titled 'One Minute After You Die' after a recent death in the family. IMO, it has alot of logical inconsistencies and it didn't really help to answer any questions whatsoever.

Directly to your point, the author's granddaughter was still-born. Being a true believer he just chalked it up to 'god's will'. So I guess god didn't see fit to bless that family with the greatest gift.
 
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