Harman Kardon Beats Denon

[zumbo]

Hehe
You mustbe be a Yammy fan .
Im not a fan of any , but if i had to make a choice . from experence , i would take a NAD or Denon over the Ball Less yammy . .

I have a Yamaha 1400. It was used to drive five 4ohm, 86db sensitivity speakers for a year. It never shut down. EVER! I added a five channel amp capable of driving 4ohm loads to 175WPC. I have shut it down several times. (right front channel only) That tells me my Yamaha has plenty of power.

Funny thing. People making claims about Yamaha products are not Yamaha owners. They have read some BS somewhere, and feel as though they are qualified to repeat such statements.

THE NEGATIVE STATEMENTS ARE AS FAR FROM FACT AS THEY CAN BE, AND CAN NOT BE BACKED-UP WITH FACTUAL DATA! GET A GRIP!

I purchase Yamaha because I got a good deal. Denon would've been just as good, if not better. NAD didn't seem to be up to snuff for HT at that moment. I was replacing an Onkyo, so that option was out. I have mentioned my feelings about H/K. No need to bash.

As one can see, you use the word "likely" in your previous post. This means you have no proof, and you that don't even know for yourself.

Im not bashing Denon or H/K , just yammy and it couldbe or not with yammy , but if you need the power , it will likely not deliver when you push it .

You also say "could be or not". Another fine example of not knowing what you are saying. The proof is out.

 

[zumbo]

In the OP's defense, I have an idea.

JBL is a division of Harman International. While I am not from the camp that believes certain brands sound good together in a generic sense, I do believe it does happen in specific cases. Also, I can see where one could be specifically engineered to work well to enhance the characteristics of the other. Rotel and B&W come to mind.

So in this case, it is extremely possible that the two Harman International products pair well together.

 

[Seth=L]

In the OP's defense, I have an idea.

JBL is a division of Harman International. While I am not from the camp that believes certain brands sound good together in a generic sense, I do believe it does happen in specific cases. Also, I can see where one could be specifically engineered to work well to enhance the characteristics of the other. Rotel and B&W come to mind.

So in this case, it is extremely possible that the two Harman International products pair well together.

How does Rotel enhance B&W?, serious question.

 

[Alex2507]

JBL is a division of Harman International. While I am not from the camp that believes certain brands sound good together in a generic sense, I do believe it does happen in specific cases. Also, I can see where one could be specifically engineered to work well to enhance the characteristics of the other.

So in this case, it is extremely possible that the two Harman International products pair well together.

That makes me feel better. Now I have hope. Maybe my rig can give a Martin Logan set up a run for it's money.

 

[zumbo]

How does Rotel enhance B&W?, serious question.

B&W group is the distributor for Rotel and Classe. Rotel and Classe are sister brands of B&W, but don't seem to be owned by B&W.

I can't find any solid information for you, but I have read on several occasions that Rotel uses B&W for real world testing.

 

[zumbo]

That makes me feel better. Now I have hope. Maybe my rig can give a Martin Logan set up a run for it's money.

WOW! You are a Harman International fan-boy. Infinity too!

 

[Seth=L]

B&W group is the distributor for Rotel and Classe. Rotel and Classe are sister brands of B&W, but don't seem to be owned by B&W.

I can't find any solid information for you, but I have read on several occasions that Rotel uses B&W for real world testing.

Well couldn't that just be another marketing scheme. Most dealers that have B&W will have Rotel/Classe (both in the case of my nearest dealer) and lay claim that B&W is the best for acoustic accuracy and that they should be paired with Rotel or Classe gear depending on which series of B&W you happen to be looking at or using at the moment.

It occurs to me that the dealer probably saves money getting gear from the same distributer, hence why you see Rotel and B&W in the same store all the time, and of course the store isn't going to recommend some odd-ball gear to power B&W they are going to recommend what they happen to sell and are probably encouraged by the distributer to recommend Rotel/Classe. This seems like the most logical scenario.

Granted their are speakers out there that sound their best paired with certain pieces of gear. ESL panels for example won't work with just any amplifier (at least not optimally) for example.

 

[zumbo]

Well, my B&W dealer has Rotel and McIntosh.
Rotel is used in the HT room with B&W 800 series.
Rotel is used in the demo room with Klipsch, Polk Audio, and B&W.
McIntosh tube gear is used on the B&W 805's in a seperate room.
McIntosh solid state gear is used with the 800's, 801's, and 802's in a seperate room.

It is all some of the best equipment I have ever auditioned. Except for Klipsch.

 

[Seth=L]

Well, my B&W dealer has Rotel and McIntosh.
Rotel is used in the HT room with B&W 800 series.
Rotel is used in the demo room with Klipsch, Polk Audio, and B&W.
McIntosh tube gear is used on the B&W 805's in a seperate room.
McIntosh solid state gear is used with the 800's, 801's, and 802's in a seperate room.

It is all some of the best equipment I have ever auditioned. Except for Klipsch.

Did they by chance carry Denon or Marantz as well?

The dealer near me carries. Denon, Integra, B&W, ERA, Triad (custom), Classe, Rotel, and McIntosh audio products.

 

[zumbo]

Did they by chance carry Denon or Marantz as well?

The dealer near me carries. Denon, Integra, B&W, ERA, Triad (custom), Classe, Rotel, and McIntosh audio products.

Nope! Store across town has Denon, Dali, Klpisch, and a few others.
Another store has Boston, Krell, and a few others.
Another store has Anthem, Yamaha, and Paradigm. Go figure.

 

[Seth=L]

Nope! Store across town has Denon, Dali, Klpisch, and a few others.
Another store has Boston, Krell, and a few others.
Another store has Anthem, Yamaha, and Paradigm. Go figure.

Anthem and Paradigm, in the same store, let alone the same town?

 

[Alex2507]

WOW! You are a Harman International fan-boy. Infinity too!

Nah, Comp USA had it on clearance and I didn't know any better. Finding this forum and buying an SPL meter are my crowning achievements. Speaker placement is my current challenge. Then room treatments.

I can relate to wanting to hear that the brands I have are getting rave reviews. The reality of it is that my stuff sounds good. Better than most people's that I know. And there is way better out there.

I'm thrilled not to have been duped into Bose and I'm never gonna be a Greek Audiophile. Amen.

 

[Seth=L]

Nah, Comp USA had it on clearance and I didn't know any better. Finding this forum and buying an SPL meter are my crowning achievements. Speaker placement is my current challenge. Then room treatments.

I can relate to wanting to hear that the brands I have are getting rave reviews. The reality of it is that my stuff sounds good. Better than most people's that I know. And there is way better out there.

I'm thrilled not to have been duped into Bose and I'm never gonna be a Greek Audiophile. Amen.

There really is nothing wrong the H/K and other Harman Int. products, unless they are indeed not working, outside that they are fairly competitive in their respective market. I have some Infinity speakers as well and enjoy them bunches.

 

[fmw]

I've only owned one HK product in the digital age - a CD player purchased in 1996 that I still use and enjoy. I did look over the specs of the higher end HK AV receivers and the specs are outstanding. I have a hard time understanding why some people view it as garbage. I'm guessing it is one of those internet misconceptions that motivate people to pile on about.

 

[wire]

I have a Yamaha 1400. It was used to drive five 4ohm, 86db sensitivity speakers for a year. It never shut down. EVER! I added a five channel amp capable of driving 4ohm loads to 175WPC. I have shut it down several times. (right front channel only) That tells me my Yamaha has plenty of power.

Funny thing. People making claims about Yamaha products are not Yamaha owners. They have read some BS somewhere, and feel as though they are qualified to repeat such statements.

THE NEGATIVE STATEMENTS ARE AS FAR FROM FACT AS THEY CAN BE, AND CAN NOT BE BACKED-UP WITH FACTUAL DATA! GET A GRIP!

I purchase Yamaha because I got a good deal. Denon would've been just as good, if not better. NAD didn't seem to be up to snuff for HT at that moment. I was replacing an Onkyo, so that option was out. I have mentioned my feelings about H/K. No need to bash.

As one can see, you use the word "likely" in your previous post. This means you have no proof, and you that don't even know for yourself.


You also say "could be or not". Another fine example of not knowing what you are saying. The proof is out.

hehe
I know what im saying , Yammys Amp section are not that good .

 

[wire]

Fair enough wire, but okay let's talk about the Yamaha. I could not find lab test data for the recent models but let's compare the older 7 channel surround models. The AVR330 and the RX-V657 were probably priced similarly in the U.S. but the AVR330 was priced much higher than the Yamaha in Canada.

According the lab test data from the S&V mag, the comparison between the HKAVR330 and Yamaha RX-V657 shows:

Output at clipping

1 channel at 8 ohms
RX-V657 - 181W
AVR330 - 95W

1 channel at 4 ohms
RX-V657 - 278W
AVR330 - 148W

5 channels at 8 ohms
RX-V657 – 67W
AVR330 – 66W

Stereo performance both channels driven at 8 ohms
RX-V657 - 129W
AVR330 - 86W

Stereo performance both channels driven at 4 ohms
RX-V657 - 188W
AVR330 - 25W (Reviewer said the protection circuit shut the system down)

Distortion at reference level
RX-V657 - 0.02%
AVR330 - 0.03%

Frequency response (Hz/dB)
20-20,000
RX-V657 - +0, -0.4
AVR330 - +0, -0.4

Frequency response analog input:
RX-V657 - <10 Hz to 104 kHz +0, –3 dB
AVR330 - <10 Hz to 72 kHz +0, –1 dB (–3 dB at 156 kHz)

If you want to check the details out yourself the links are:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/874/pioneer-vsx-74txvi-digital-surround-receiver.html

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/322004162858.pdf

The test data alone are probably not enough proof to say one is necessarily more powerful or sounding better than the other. My guess is that people might have been largely influenced by hearsays of claims (based on may be a couple of reviews and test data of some earlier models) that Yammies are weak, bright etc. to start with; and then the Placebo effect sets in during their subsequent listening sessions of their own.

The links have been posted several times before, but I hope by comparing some of the relevant test data of two at models at the opposite ends of the issue "conservatively rated versus exaggerated (some say lies) rated", one can see that it is the Watts/Dollar that really counts in the end.

No placibo with me in my Demo , It was a Yammy and the intra was a Denon .
Sorry man , if you buy a Yammy reciever , just add a 5 channel Amp ( sunfire or something like that ) and your system will Sing .

 

[zumbo]

Sorry man , if you buy a Yammy reciever , just add a 5 channel Amp ( sunfire or something like that ) and your system will Sing .

This is yet another fine example of someone not knowing what they are talking about. When an amp is added to any brand of receiver, it will sound exactly as it did before the addition. There will just be more gas in the tank.

 

[Seth=L]

hehe
I know what im saying , Yammys Amp section are not that good .

Oh, well if you put it that way.

Sorry for being sarcastic, but it is hard to be serious with someone who stands their ground for what seems to be no reason other than to stand your ground.

People are discussing refrigerators, let's say there are three people. One of the people mentions Kenmore and expresses their likeness for it because it keeps things the coolest (not fact, I don't know much about fridges). Another person (person 4) joins the conversation and says that Kenmore is only good for keeping things hot. The original three explain clearly why that is not the case, but person 4 continues to claim that Kenmore is only useful for keeping things hot with no grounds to support their conclusions.......WTF?

 

[Seth=L]

No placibo with me in my Demo , It was a Yammy and the intra was a Denon .
Sorry man , if you buy a Yammy reciever , just add a 5 channel Amp ( sunfire or something like that ) and your system will Sing .

Well bless your un-biased little heart.

Let me be the first to recommend that this thread be closed, I think its purpose has been more than fullfilled.

 

[3db]

You know jacksh?t

hehe
I know what im saying , Yammys Amp section are not that good .

and you wouldn't know the difference between that and tar if you stepped in it. Like I siad before, your arguements are based on nothing factual and this makes your arguement pointless.