Focal Inceiling speakers with B&W 803 Diamond fronts

[rthotapalli]

Hi All, I am new to this forum, I currently have the following configuration, however I am looking at making few changes to add two additional Atmos Channels and change my Rear surrounds ( floor standing speakers ) to inceiling ones. I am looking at Focal 300ICLCR5 3-way for my rear surround speakers and Focal 300 ICW8 2-Way for the atmos channels. Question I have is are Focals something that I can consider to pair with my B&Ws will compatability work ? Any thoughts or suggestions would be really appreciated.

My current config is

B&W 803D ( Front Right and Left )
B&W HTM2
Rears - Monitor Audio RS8 Silver series
As of now I dont have any Atmos setup.
PreAmp - McIntosh Mx123
Amp - McIntosh MC207 (200 Watts per channel at 7 channels )

As you can see, I am planning to replace the MonitorAudio towers that are used as the rear surround speakers with Inceiling speakers. The reason for me to do it is due to the way the Couch and my room specs are which actually blocks one of the speakers in any way I set them up. So I am thinking moving them into the ceiling and point the tweeter towards the listening position would help.

The dealer from where I bought my McIntosh gear is recommending to buy the Focals as they would be compatible so wanted to check with some experts here before I pull the plug.

Appreciate your help and support.
RT

 

[ryanosaur]

Surrounds and Atmos speakers do not need to match the way your Front 3 do. Some like to keep similar voicing, but chances are high when it comes to the programming material in those channels, the "voicing" of a bullet whizzing by isn't something one is likely to really notice.

That said, putting rear surrounds in ceiling is NOT something I would recommend. Especially if you are thinking of ever doing Atmos. I would encourage wall mounting something for the Rears if you must keep 7 channels running. If you ever add Atmos, you will need a layer of separation between those overhead channels and your Bed Layer Speakers (which include your standard 5- or 7- channel layouts (L/C/R/SurrL/SurrR/RearL/RearR)).

 

[rthotapalli]

Thanks for your input Ryanosaur, however this is going to be in our Living room as in my house I dont have a room big enough to be setup as HT room. With the walls and the layout configuration there wont be any symmetry with the speakers hanging from the Wall. Thats one of the other other reason for me to be thinking of the Inceiling rears and atmos together.

thanks
RT

 

[ryanosaur]

Forgive, distracted and didn't realize you are running a 5 channel system.
For clarity, in a 5-channel system, you have Surrounds. In a 7-Channel system you have both Surrounds and Rears.

This may help you understand some of the placement options available to you.

Dolby Atmos Speaker Setup Guides

Browse our wide-range of Dolby Atmos speaker step-by-step setup guides to find the best speaker placement and configuration for your home theater.

www.dolby.com

Keep in mind that there are always compromises to be made. My situation is no different. However, when you go to Atmos, the separation between layers needs to be there. Without that separation, the overhead effect is lost. You need to decide for yourself where you values lie in determining how to grow your system.

 

[rthotapalli]

Thanks yes I currently have 5.1 system I am looking at adding two atmos channels making it a 5.1.2 system.

 

[pcosmic]

Hi All, I am new to this forum, I currently have the following configuration, however I am looking at making few changes to add two additional Atmos Channels and change my Rear surrounds ( floor standing speakers ) to inceiling ones. I am looking at Focal 300ICLCR5 3-way for my rear surround speakers and Focal 300 ICW8 2-Way for the atmos channels. Question I have is are Focals something that I can consider to pair with my B&Ws will compatability work ? Any thoughts or suggestions would be really appreciated.

My current config is

B&W 803D ( Front Right and Left )
B&W HTM2
Rears - Monitor Audio RS8 Silver series
As of now I dont have any Atmos setup.
PreAmp - McIntosh Mx123
Amp - McIntosh MC207 (200 Watts per channel at 7 channels )

As you can see, I am planning to replace the MonitorAudio towers that are used as the rear surround speakers with Inceiling speakers. The reason for me to do it is due to the way the Couch and my room specs are which actually blocks one of the speakers in any way I set them up. So I am thinking moving them into the ceiling and point the tweeter towards the listening position would help.

The dealer from where I bought my McIntosh gear is recommending to buy the Focals as they would be compatible so wanted to check with some experts here before I pull the plug.

Appreciate your help and support.
RT

I have yet to hear a in-ceiling speaker that doesn't sound like ass (no matter the price). If you need to go atmos, lower your standards, keep it cheap and save some cash in the process. But, have you checked first if DTS X or Neural X makes you happy prior to the inclusion of in-ceiling crap?

 

[rthotapalli]

I have yet to hear a in-ceiling speaker that doesn't sound like ass (no matter the price). If you need to go atmos, lower your standards, keep it cheap and save some cash in the process. But, have you checked first if DTS X or Neural X makes you happy prior to the inclusion of in-ceiling crap?

Thanks for your input, no I have not tried DTS X. Currently with the only having 5 speakers I am not happy with my rears though I have MA Towers as the height of my couch gets in the way and to compensate that I have put them on couple of small wooden tables I built. I am worried that I might tip them and I am not happy about that. So to avoid all of that I am just thinking of slapping something in the ceiling ( two for my rears and two for the atmos or you can say mid surrounds ) So far in all the research i am going Focal 3 way and 2 way inceiling speakers are what are being recommended to me to match the signature of my B&Ws so before biting the bullet I just wanted to get some help from the pros here.

 

[mazersteven]

You need to figure out how to properly place those RS8 I would do whatever I had to do to make that work.

And do the Focals have the same drivers as the B&W's? No they don't, so how can it be a match? It can't. Now using a different speaker then your Mains as surrounds isn't as critical as your main front 3 speakers I agree. But there's no such thing as a match

 

[pcosmic]

Thanks for your input, no I have not tried DTS X. Currently with the only having 5 speakers I am not happy with my rears though I have MA Towers as the height of my couch gets in the way and to compensate that I have put them on couple of small wooden tables I built. I am worried that I might tip them and I am not happy about that. So to avoid all of that I am just thinking of slapping something in the ceiling ( two for my rears and two for the atmos or you can say mid surrounds ) So far in all the research i am going Focal 3 way and 2 way inceiling speakers are what are being recommended to me to match the signature of my B&Ws so before biting the bullet I just wanted to get some help from the pros here.

You may have better luck if you post a picture (give a visual) of this impossible couch/ set up you've got with your surrounds. Many of us have big fat couches in our houses...so i'm missing something here...

 

[rthotapalli]

You may have better luck if you post a picture (give a visual) of this impossible couch/ set up you've got with your surrounds. Many of us have big fat couches in our houses...so i'm missing something here...

Sure here is the setup, the pic from back of the couch looking at the TV and the shape of the couch with two speakers in the back and one of the rear speakers when placed on the floor vs when its put on a table. Hope this helps.

 

[pcosmic]

Sure here is the setup, the pic from back of the couch looking at the TV and the shape of the couch with two speakers in the back and one of the rear speakers when placed on the floor vs when its put on a table. Hope this helps.

I see your problem now. That's a problematic couch...Why didn't you get 2 separate pieces from that couch manufacturer when you bought it man? why did they have to be connected to each other like that? lol You could have set your surround floorstanders at 90 to 100 degrees and you would have been good to go.

You spent a chunk on your McIntosh gear, your fronts and center. So, i take it that you have certain audiophile expectations a.k.a you're not the kinda guy who'll put up with a shtbox speaker. So, for those audiophile expectations to be met, especially if you listen to native surround music sources (SACD mixes, blu-ray audio, or if you like to upmix 2-channel sources into Neural X, etc), you need quality surrounds and good placement for surrounds.

If you take these to the ceiling, it will just get worse from there. Any speaker mounted in a ceiling hole sounds like ass. Any speaker mounted close to the ceiling sounds like ass and it doesn't matter if uppity Focal made it or crappity Radioshack made it. It is no mystery.
.
I suppose you could a) get a pair of decent bookshelves for your surrounds and put it on adjustable stands (that can clear your couch). But, since you are already worried about knocking things over, you may start to get worried that you will knock the bookshelves over too. In that case, getting a different couch may also work.

The reason i was suggesting the DTS Neural X/Virtual X route is because it can do a pretty good job making you hear the 'voice of god' coming from above without anything mounted on the ceiling. The guys who work at DTS are just a bit smarter than the Dolby dudes. So, get this DTS experience for a base reference (with just your 5 speakers), And then, cut holes in the ceiling, mount your focals, go to dolby atmos and if it all sounds worse, you can take the focals back to your dealer, mount it on his head and leave.

But, if you don't have those audiophile expectations described above (a.k.a you're not too nitpicky), feel free to do whatever works for you man.

 

[mazersteven]

Bookshelf Speakers on Wall mounts would work to raise them up and to angle them toward the listening position.

Just have to figure out what to do with those MA's

 

[pcosmic]

Bookshelf Speakers on Wall mounts would work to raise them up and to angle them toward the listening position.

Just have to figure out what to do with those MA's

I would suggest that he gets some of the better b&w bookshelves out there like the 705 S2 or similar and set them on dedicated weighted stands for surrounds away from walls. He's got some serious stuff man. Wall mounted gets too close to walls and starts to sound like assss. He could always sell that couch. 'No ass' should be his motto with the stuff he's got.

 

[ryanosaur]

If you take these to the ceiling, it will just get worse from there.

This!

P-Cos is right about the Towers being blocked by the couch. Truthfully, you need to raise them higher, and aim them more at your main LP, not square into the room.

Putting your Surrounds in the ceiling and then trying to instal atmos of any kind WILL NOT WORK. I said that earlier, and will repeat it again.

IT WILL NOT WORK.

I would get taller stands for those towers so that the acoustic center between Tweeter and Mid is roughly 6-9" above your ears when seated. Aim them at you. You do not need to worry about the woofers as long as you have them crossed appropriately to a sub or two.

Though true, Dolby specs Surrounds in a 5.x.x to be 90-110º... lets be honest, we can't always do what Dolby says. There are tradeoffs. The placement of your Surrounds does not trouble me as much as the allignment of them, both where they are aimed and how low they are.

 

[ryanosaur]

I would suggest that he gets some of the better b&w bookshelves out there like the 705 S2 or similar and set them on dedicated weighted stands for surrounds away from walls. He's got some serious stuff man. Wall mounted gets too close to walls and starts to sound like assss. He could always sell that couch. 'No ass' should be his motto with the stuff he's got.

There's nothing wrong with Monitor Audio Silvers. In fact I would take those (preferably the current gen) over B&W 700 series any day.
For Surrounds... He does not need to worry about that so much. Only if you want to be picky about it.

The couch... not gonna lie. Sectionals and Cubby Holes for Speakers are my two biggest pet peeves!

 

[pcosmic]

This!

P-Cos is right about the Towers being blocked by the couch. Truthfully, you need to raise them higher, and aim them more at your main LP, not square into the room.

Putting your Surrounds in the ceiling and then trying to instal atmos of any kind WILL NOT WORK. I said that earlier, and will repeat it again.

IT WILL NOT WORK.

I would get taller stands for those towers so that the acoustic center between Tweeter and Mid is roughly 6-9" above your ears when seated. Aim them at you. You do not need to worry about the woofers as long as you have them crossed appropriately to a sub or two.

Though true, Dolby specs Surrounds in a 5.x.x to be 90-110º... lets be honest, we can't always do what Dolby says. There are tradeoffs. The placement of your Surrounds does not trouble me as much as the allignment of them, both where they are aimed and how low they are.

Ryanosaur, would you also care to explain the problems with Dolby Atmos execution to these atmos hungry dudes..We both know Atmos algorithms were made for cinema theaters with 40 ft ceilings. We both know that ya need a pretty high ceiling to make it work right. But, now, we have these guys with 8 ft to 10ft ceilings thinking they can wing it somehow?! I almost had a set up going for Atmos with speakers in the sky because the main area in my house was a vaulted 20+ish ft ceiling with such lovely acoustics. I was in the process of getting a beautiful artistic wood frame on that vault and getting some speakers mounted up there in a clever manner... oh yes...oh yes...oh yes.....But, before i could execute my work of art, alarms went off in the tyrannical empress's head and I was banished into the basement. I sit now in the nether realm with my 5 speakers and attempt to expound the joys of DTS to y'all. Back me up comrade Ryanosaur, back me up on the cleverness of DTS, back me up on the orgasmic joy of DTS that's meant for low ceiling peasants like us.

 

[rthotapalli]

Thanks to all of you for the responses. The couch is something that better half wanted and you cant say no so thats how i ended up with that. As you have seen from my pics I do have the Monitor Audios sitting on a small pedestal. However these were being used in my Office room for my two channel listening and I want them to go back to that space. I also have another pair of bookshelfs Monitor Audio Radius that replaced these for now on temp basis. So I looked at the Kef R3s and tried them for couple of weeks again not having the right stands I dropped them. Now coming to think of it with all of your suggestions may be I can get couple of stands made to my specs by local welder that i had worked in the past for few of my live edge tables I built. However do you think Kef R3s are a good option or since these are for rears and mostly effects channels should I just get some cheap ones like Aperion Audio which is rated good for their speakers ? One of my local dealer has a pair of B&W 805 bookshelf speakers but for the effects channel I am not inclined to drop 5 to 6 grand on those. So let me know your thoughts.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ryanosaur, would you also care to explain the problems with Dolby Atmos execution to these atmos hungry dudes..We both know Atmos algorithms were made for cinema theaters with 40 ft ceilings. We both know that ya need a pretty high ceiling to make it work right. But, now, we have these guys with 8 ft to 10ft ceilings thinking they can wing it somehow?! I almost had a set up going for Atmos with speakers in the sky because the main area in my house was a vaulted 20+ish ft ceiling with such lovely acoustics. I was in the process of getting a beautiful artistic wood frame on that vault and getting some speakers mounted up there in a clever manner... oh yes...oh yes...oh yes.....But, before i could execute my work of art, alarms went off in the tyrannical empress's head and I was banished into the basement. I sit now in the nether realm with my 5 speakers and attempt to expound the joys of DTS to y'all. Back me up comrade Ryanosaur, back me up on the cleverness of DTS, back me up on the orgasmic joy of DTS that's meant for low ceiling peasants like us.

Well this is an interesting viewpoint. The home Atmos renderer takes into account that your not in a room with 40’ ceilings. Moot point. Cinema Atmos and home Atmos are a little different. And no dtsxnx and DSU for that matter don’t do anything to make you hear anything above you. The height virtualization in some new AVR’s can do this but NX and DSU use the heights speakers by extrapolation from the bed layer. True DTS-X and Atmos tracks have encoded information for those speakers. Although I think only a couple DTS-X tracks actually use objects.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I definitely agree with @ryanosaur about surrounds and heights/tops in the same plane. I think the OP can find an elegant solution for the surrounds and still add tops.

 

[pcosmic]

Well this is an interesting viewpoint. The home Atmos renderer takes into account that your not in a room with 40’ ceilings. Moot point. Cinema Atmos and home Atmos are a little different. And no dtsxnx and DSU for that matter don’t do anything to make you hear anything above you. The height virtualization in some new AVR’s can do this but NX and DSU use the heights speakers by extrapolation from the bed layer. True DTS-X and Atmos tracks have encoded information for those speakers. Although I think only a couple DTS-X tracks actually use objects.

Have you not heard of or heard DTS Virtual X?