highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
You have repeated this question many times in this thread. Most people, including myself, have simply ignored you. Your questions all imply that human political factors were the cause of the outbreak and subsequent pandemic. Political supporters of Trump, as well as rabid watchers of distorted news, such as Faux News, tend to believe these ideas without questioning them. Why should anyone attempt to argue with people who believe that?

You made at least 3 claims in your post – the Wuhan Lab origin idea, the “misdirection” claim, and the Ft. Detrick claim – that can be tested against the known facts.

There is no remotely convincing evidence to support any of them. There is also no evidence to refute the second & third claim. That leaves them in the realm of rank speculation or pure fantasy. That may be fine for Faux News or the GOP in general, but all the rest of us need to see supporting evidence. Where is it?

Your first claim – that the December 2019 breakout in the Wuhan Hunan Seafood Market originated from a leak in the Wuhan Labs that perform research sponsored by the Chinese government. That also needs a lot of supporting evidence, and we have none. We’re not likely to get anything useful from the Chinese government. But before we launch missles to strike Beijing, I want to see convincing evidence.

However, there is convincing evidence that says the Corona virus outbreak happened earlier than December 2019, at unknown locations. Evidence comes from Italy dating as early as July-September 2019. Numerous patients were participating in a clinical trial of lung cancer screening methods, and all of them had blood samples taken and frozen away. About a year later, these blood samples were tested to see if the trial participants had been exposed to the Corona virus. These well-documented results showed that 11.6% of 959 people were positive for Corona virus, certainly by September 2019. None of these people had any symptoms of Corona virus infection. (See posts #3619 and #5371 in this thread.) It clearly indicates the virus was widespread in Italy well before the Wuhan outbreak. How can the December 2019 Wuhan Lab outbreak origin of Corona virus be correct, if this clinical trial test is also true?

There is additional evidence, not as convincing, suggesting this virus was around even earlier. Sewage test samples of a city or cities in Spain showed evidence of the virus DNA as early as the spring of 2019. This isn’t as convincing as the Italian evidence, but you also cannot simply ignore it because it doesn’t fit your ‘let’s blame China’ idea.

Both of these together make the case that Corona virus was widespread in Europe well before December 2019, when the first cases of illness and death were noticed in Wuhan.

Where is similarly convincing evidence to support your idea of a Wuhan Lab outbreak? I don’t see any at all.
Again, I don't watch FOX but nobody has presented proof of much. If I were going to get my news from FOX, it would have to be in print- I can't stand listening to them. They're some of the most annoying yappers I have ever heard.

WRT Spain and Italy, I have read that it was present in the US prior to the officially recognized start of the outbreak here- have you seen much about this?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
WRT Spain and Italy, I have read that it was present in the US prior to the officially recognized start of the outbreak here- have you seen much about this?
I had heard about it. But it was limited to observations that doctors and hospitals had seen patients with symptoms similar to Covid-19. It was not evidence that could be confirmed or disproven at a later time. In science, we call that 'apocryphal evidence'. There were similar reports from Europe, China, and the USA, all before December 2019.

Apocryphal:
Evidence, story, or statement, widely circulated as being true, but of doubtful authenticity, or not capable of being confirmed.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
Gonna schedule my flu and covid shots next week. I've had annual flu shots and multiple covid shots and have not contacted the flu in years and never covid. So, I'm going with science and my personal experience on this one. :)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Gonna schedule my flu and covid shots next week. I've had annual flu shots and multiple covid shots and have not contacted the flu in years and never covid. So, I'm going with science and my personal experience on this one. :)
Yes, and my number 1 son says the same thing that without a vaccine still never a flu episode. :eek: Not to mention covid which he didn't vaccinate for either.

Had mine yesterday, both.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I had heard about it. But it was limited to observations that doctors and hospitals had seen patients with symptoms similar to Covid-19. It was not evidence that could be confirmed or disproven at a later time. In science, we call that 'apocryphal evidence'. There were similar reports from Europe, China, and the USA, all before December 2019.

Apocryphal:
Evidence, story, or statement, widely circulated as being true, but of doubtful authenticity, or not capable of being confirmed.
Thanks for the definition. I don't know what I would have done without it.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for the definition. I don't know what I would have done without it.
I think there was cases found through the retrospectoscope in California months before any new broke about it.

I can tell for a fact that a case was identified in my home town at Medway Maritime Hospital in I think the November before any news broke about it. This should not surprise, as in any major infectious disease epidemic there are likely to be early sentinel cases only recognized after the disease is more widely known and identified.
 
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Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
Has anyone received this latest COVID booster shot yet? I get mine next Friday. I'm just enquiring about the side effects.
 
Speedskater

Speedskater

Audioholic General
I got it last Friday.
An hour later I couldn't tell which arm received the jab.
My wife got hers on the same day (but at a different pharmacy).
The next day her arm still hurt.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
I had several before this, but I was just wondering if there's any new vaccine symptoms I should look out for.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
We got it this past Tuesday. Flue was almost undetectable. Covid slight pain about 10-12 hours later but not as bad as the previous ones.
I think it was all gone by late Wednesday or early Thursday.
 
Speedskater

Speedskater

Audioholic General
Heck, my son is over 60.
With the COVID lockdown and then 2 medical issues, I'm just catching up on vaccines, at 2 week intervals.
Received;
pneumococcal/ pneumonia
COVID
next:
seasonal influenza/flu
RSV
Shingrix (it was prescribed some years ago. But wasn't available at that time and fell off the table)
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Anyone on here that's over 60 get or plan to get the RSV shot.
We got that as well several weeks ago. That too was almost pain free.

We signed up for the age reversal vaccine on the way out.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
Covid vax scheduled for Monday I'll see how it makes me feel and get the Flu shot later in the week. I did have a headache and sore arm after last year's covid shot. Still alive and never had covid so that's a plus. :)
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
That's the trouble with immune systems. You only know they've failed when it's too late to do anything effective.

We all know people who claim, "I've never had the flu". I simply cannot believe them. More likely, they don't know they're sick, come to work, and infect others who work near them. I personally witnessed that more than once. I knew one guy who came to work with walking pneumonia (caused by a Mycoplasma or Legionella infection), and infected 3 other people with the same. He swore he wasn't sick. It must have been a case of Denial Disease.
Maybe you don't believe that I haven't got the flu for over 50 years and that's your right. I also don't remember the last time that I got a cold. As you know there are exceptions to every situation. You have to take into account that I have been taking vitamins, minerals and other food supplements for 39 years. I am sure that these have helped my immune system to some extent. I read a lot on nutrition and the role of various supplements and I keep reading on this topic. That doesn't mean that I don't have to take precautions, I have been rather careful with the Covid which I never caught, avoiding elevators at rush times with lots of people, avoiding public transportation and doing my groceries at quieter times as examples.

However, I am getting older and I trust your judgment on vaccine matters. Tuesday, I received the first shot of the Shingrix vaccine, and I am scheduled to receive the flu and the new Covid vaccines on the 24th of this month. I also plan to get the Pneumovax 23 vaccine which is free for me sometime in November.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
Is that the new covid skin application? ;) :D :D :D No one told me I had that choice. Next time.
Got the SHOT today. :). I am ready to feel pretty bad tomorrow and maybe the next day. Hope to get the Flu shot at the end of the week.
 
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